Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Wow. One thing that's very clear is that I was wrong about a Creative leader. No one popped their borders on turn 3. I guess that they must have been researching a non-basic tech and getting the 20% prereq bonus. If only one religion is researched straight off, that probably increases our chances of getting The Oracle.
Can you tell me where Paris was in the top 5 cities on turns 2 and 4 please?
Can you tell me where Paris was in the top 5 cities on turns 2 and 4 please?
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
I'd have to say the 5S of Paris has good potential as the next city, unless we find a better hammer rich site W or N of us. It's certainly better than Fishville at this point.
Also, are we ready to make our research decision? To me it's a question of mining for the hammers, or pottery to get writing > alpha for our spy. I'd like to fit BW in there somewhere, since it could affect where we settle should we see copper.
Also, are we ready to make our research decision? To me it's a question of mining for the hammers, or pottery to get writing > alpha for our spy. I'd like to fit BW in there somewhere, since it could affect where we settle should we see copper.
Not without Iron Working, unless there's really nothing else. Jungled pigs and gems are no use to us.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Definitely a good future city site. Maybe #4 if we're fast to Alphabet - it can grow a bit on the clams before we really need IW.
I've taken a look through the start normalizer code.
One FP and one ancient land food resource are sufficient that it won't automatically add more food.
Four 2f1h tiles are the minimum required - we were probably brought up to 4 by the normalizer.
We probably have at least four resources - the map generator tends to spam marble if you don't, and our start isn't completely covered in forests. (These could be aluminium, coal and uranium to go with the corn we see, but that's fairly unlikely. I think Oil is very unlikely at this latitude and terrain selection, so we're looking at three out of Aluminium, Coal, Copper, Horse, Iron, Uranium.)
One FP and one ancient land food resource are sufficient that it won't automatically add more food.
Four 2f1h tiles are the minimum required - we were probably brought up to 4 by the normalizer.
We probably have at least four resources - the map generator tends to spam marble if you don't, and our start isn't completely covered in forests. (These could be aluminium, coal and uranium to go with the corn we see, but that's fairly unlikely. I think Oil is very unlikely at this latitude and terrain selection, so we're looking at three out of Aluminium, Coal, Copper, Horse, Iron, Uranium.)
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
They can, but kcd_swede said he did almost nothing to this map. Removing all our resources would just be mean.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
They can, but kcd_swede said he did almost nothing to this map. Removing all our resources would just be mean.
*chuckle*
The keywords here are "almost" and "mean"!
Anyway... I think to keep moving, we need to pick our tech, right? Do you see a reason not to go mining? We can mine the hills and open the path to BW, and we can still have pottery in plenty of time to cottage the FP if that's what we want to do next.
I also have a question. If it's going to be easy to rip off IW, why wouldn't we make more spies and steal more techs? I know you need so many ESP points, but how often do you have enough to get one? I didn't play BtS as much as other games, and didn't use spies a lot...
I think I agree with Mining first. We won't be ready to build a library yet with a straight Writing beeline.*chuckle*
The keywords here are "almost" and "mean"!
Anyway... I think to keep moving, we need to pick our tech, right? Do you see a reason not to go mining? We can mine the hills and open the path to BW, and we can still have pottery in plenty of time to cottage the FP if that's what we want to do next.
I also have a question. If it's going to be easy to rip off IW, why wouldn't we make more spies and steal more techs? I know you need so many ESP points, but how often do you have enough to get one? I didn't play BtS as much as other games, and didn't use spies a lot...
We will have to invest some commerce into espionage, once we get Alphabet, to have enough to steal IW. It's unlikely we'll naturally accrue enough for another tech (although it is quite possible to invest in EP some more). The biggest drawback is that on Emperor the AIs just won't research what we want fast enough.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
I'm ready some very interesting threads on spying. Have y'all ever considered gifting a junk city to an AI just to steal techs?
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
I just assumed that at Alphabet we'd build a spy right away and steal it as soon as we get the 5 turns' stationary discount, doing whatever we need to, to pay for it. We'd normally just trade for it, but even with the variant we don't want to delay it too long.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
As much as I'd like BW to see if copper is around, maybe the best route is:
Mining (now) > Pottery (also can keep worker busy) > Writing (library when we can fit it) > Alpa (build spy)
Then we get BW while the spy is built, travels, and hides out for 5 turns.
Mining (now) > Pottery (also can keep worker busy) > Writing (library when we can fit it) > Alpa (build spy)
Then we get BW while the spy is built, travels, and hides out for 5 turns.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Well, time to define our research path. I already gave my opinions, we definitely need a strategy until turn 100.
About the city 5S of Paris, yes it can be a good city. The decision on its priority will be taken depending by where our neighbour (provided there's one) is. If he's south a good idea can be to settle in that direction and backfill North, at the cost to deny OB or to cancel it until the land is settled.
What is almost sure is that our neighbour it's not too close or he's scouting in a different direction. Knowing where he is is vital. In any case, before to arrive to the first settler we have some 30-35 turns, thus we're plenty of time to decide.
Shaan, this is not your TS, just the first part. Once we have decided the research, the Oracle and so on, you should arrive to turn 20, unless you have problems.
Now we need a plan until turn 100.
I already planned to use the reserved posts on page 1 to summarize our strategy. I'll do as soon as we have one. For now i see many interesting comments and proposals, but we need a decision. Can i affirm that if we want the Oracle we must have it before turn 65? Usually the safe date can be until turn 70 to 80, but it's worth the risk only if you're chasing the CS sling, otherwise, better be really safe.
@ Mastiff
If you want to renounce to the Oracle, you can propose to research Alpha.
But i see no reason to hurry. Usually Alpha comes after PH if you want the Oracle. We need time to build it. Also, we need at least 2 spies to be safe and they are fairly expensive in the early game.
About the city 5S of Paris, yes it can be a good city. The decision on its priority will be taken depending by where our neighbour (provided there's one) is. If he's south a good idea can be to settle in that direction and backfill North, at the cost to deny OB or to cancel it until the land is settled.
What is almost sure is that our neighbour it's not too close or he's scouting in a different direction. Knowing where he is is vital. In any case, before to arrive to the first settler we have some 30-35 turns, thus we're plenty of time to decide.
Shaan, this is not your TS, just the first part. Once we have decided the research, the Oracle and so on, you should arrive to turn 20, unless you have problems.
Now we need a plan until turn 100.
I already planned to use the reserved posts on page 1 to summarize our strategy. I'll do as soon as we have one. For now i see many interesting comments and proposals, but we need a decision. Can i affirm that if we want the Oracle we must have it before turn 65? Usually the safe date can be until turn 70 to 80, but it's worth the risk only if you're chasing the CS sling, otherwise, better be really safe.
@ Mastiff
If you want to renounce to the Oracle, you can propose to research Alpha.
But i see no reason to hurry. Usually Alpha comes after PH if you want the Oracle. We need time to build it. Also, we need at least 2 spies to be safe and they are fairly expensive in the early game.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
I need to think things through when I'm at work.
Man, three techs to get it, too. Now I have to rethink the order, because if we need chops for the Oracle, we have to have BW. In fact, we might want to think through exactly how we want the chop hammers used. If the spies are expensive, do we chop one? Chop a settler to get another city up and running faster?
The goal has to be to somehow combine REX and fast research.
Our capital doesn't have enough visible resources to generate our first GS without crippling our expansion, so that will have to happen from our second city (or maybe #3 if we're quick).
At this point I think
Mining-BW-(either AH or Pottery)-Writing-Myst-Poly-Priest-Alpha.
However, if the land is suitable (e.g. lots of farming resources and sites to settle), we can keep the option open to switch out to Mining-BW-Myst-Poly-Priest-Writing-Alpha
Maybe we should look at it the other way around. How much are we willing to sacrifice to get the Oracle? Can we chop it out in our third city at 1280BC, or maybe do we want to push for it in the capital at 1520BC? (t68 and t62 respectively.) Those few extra turns push back expansion quite a bit, and we have to decide whether it's worth it.
If we can answer that, then we know if we lose the Oracle, trying to build it would have hurt us too much anyway, so it's for the best.
Of course, we'll only really know when we can see some more of the land, so being able to react to what we see must be the priority.
Similar threads
