SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element

[BLubmuz]

Folket, i think that our priority has to be health. Build grocers first, then anything to keep it under control. We're throwing away citizens for health problems.

I've seen galleons "escorted" by a privateer in sight of a chinese frigate. They can attack the privateer even if it's stacked with our units, even if there's a destroyer in the stack.

I see we can launch the GAge now, what are your plans?

 

[Folket]

The golden age is to be delayed. We will probably only have one more and we will have that one when we plan on starving great artists.

Hopefully we will get a great prophet or Engineer from Thebes so we do not need to use our great artist.

 

[Folket]

The age of privateers I think is pretty much over. Both the Chinese and the Arabs are patroling the oceans with frigates. I just have the privateer there in case I meet a privateer.

Building more building now will delay electricity an other turn. I would not want to do that. We need the culture wonders.

As for health. I think it is only important for the mega cities. Unless we can build harbours.

50 gold for 1 food. When is that going to pay for itself? If we plan on running 100% science/culture soon it is the same cost for both grover and aqueduct. i do not think we should build it in many cities.

But what I'm asking about is how I'm handling the economy. Am I doing something wrong? Shaandore wanted us to run 100% science already.

If I interpret Blubmuz correctly he wants me to sacrifice research more for future gains.

 

[Shaandore]

I don't think that we are in a bad position. I see that the first stack is on route. Well done!

Here are the things that I would change:
-Set Byblos to Buddhist temple, Giza to Buddhist missionary(for Gergovia), then Buddhist temple.
-Set Venta to Christian Missionary
-Set Thebes to Aqueduct then Hospital. This city should work all its tiles instead of specialists. It should steal two farms from Memphis, and have some farms watermilled or workshopped.
-Build Grocer in Apache, Orleans, Paris, Rheims, and after the executive, in Lyons and Bibracte
-Set Durnovaria and Vienne on Wealth

-Specialists are all over the place. Usually food is king. Don't ever hire a specialist if there is an improved tile with at least 2 food that is not worked. Eg Marseilles has 4 more tiles worth working, but has 2 specialists hired (okay, one of them is from SoL)

In megacities, even 1 food tiles must be worked. These cities need to buil health buildings so they can grow faster. Grocer, Aqueduct, and Hospital is the good order.
-Get rid of spy specialists, we don't need them!

High priorities on sushi spreading:
Apache, Chartres

We won't get Electricity next turn, but it is not a problem. The things above are more important. (we will get the wonders, only one turn later. Managing the megacities is more important, since their growth is a limiting factor, we can only strat the GA if they are big enough.)

 

[Folket]

Good points.

Gergovia already has Buddhism. I spread it there. We have plenty of time to get a Christian missionary. I have sent a Buddhist missionary to Orleans as well. Getting cathedrals there will also save on great artists.

How many more units do we need for Babylon?

 

[Folket]

I'm sorry I'm slow. I will play a couple of turns after dinner and then upload and let ZPV take over.

 

[Shaandore]

Good points.

Gergovia already has Buddhism. I spread it there. We have plenty of time to get a Christian missionary. I have sent a Buddhist missionary to Orleans as well. Getting cathedrals there will also save on great artists.

I'm not sure if it is worth spreading to Orleans. Our multipliers there are already quite high (300%), and we are planning to build the Hit wonders there, thus two turns from now Orleans will be building Broadway (We won't have time for cathedrals there). Getting the Cathedrals up and running in Gergovia is much more important IMO. This way we can get away with 3 Buddhist and 3 Christian temples.

How many more units do we need for Babylon?
That's a good question. I expect that they will cap after two cities, but we need to be ready to take at least one more city easily. I didn't really look into the war problems when I opened the save, so maybe we have enough units headed there already.

BTW one more reason for early combustion is to get flight right after that, so we have fast transportation to the other continent.

Answers in red

 

[Folket]

A cathedral will generate at least 2k culture for an investment of less then 540 hammers. 240 of the hammer can come from a less critical city. Surly it will be better then building culture.

 

[BLubmuz]

How many more units do we need for Babylon?

We're OK once we have 2 stacks. The plan is to declare and assault Babylon and Dur-K in the same turn, isn't it? Then, if we need a 3rd city for capitulation, the one N of Babylon is nice with all those FP with towns. We must keep some defender in Dur in case Salad attacks, but 1 is enough for Bab.

 

[Shaandore]

A cathedral will generate at least 2k culture for an investment of less then 540 hammers. 240 of the hammer can come from a less critical city. Surly it will be better then building culture.

I was not comparing it to building culture, but to building Broadway. (It still wins over Broadway though, since it is cheaper.)

It means that we will have to build Broadway in Thebes though.

 

[BLubmuz]

I was not comparing it to building culture, but to building Broadway. (It still wins over Broadway though, since it is cheaper.)

It means that we will have to build Broadway in Thebes though.

While Broadway in Thebes is incredibly fast, it's a waste of culture. Let's keep it for the Eiffel, which will arrive soon. Then, if we go for MM, don't forget Hollywood.

 

[Shaandore]

Yes, these (and Rock&Roll) are what I call Hit Wonders. I thought that we should build some of them in Orleans, which would give Orelans more than enough things to do. Meaning it won't be able to produce cathedrals for a while. By the time it could produce one, it might not be worth it.

 

[Folket]

I have uploaded the game now.

Babylon cities are weakly defended. We should have no problem to capture Babylon with an amphibious assault and with our infantry leading the other attack I think that battle is safe.

The only problem I see is that if Hammurabi is going for assembly line he has put 5 turns into it now. Hopefully he is going for railroads.

We do not need to worry about Saladin. He likes us enought hat he will not attack us if we attack Hammurabi.

It feels a lot better on the culture front now.

 

[ZPV]

Got it. I'll put together a plan tomorrow.

 

[ZPV]

@Folket: what units are in Babylon?

 

[Folket]

4 airships
1 rifleman
1 war elephant
1 pikeman
1 longbowman
1 catapult

 

[Folket]

That was two turns ago.

Other cities are defended by 4 units of which 2-3 are riflemen.

 

[ZPV]

Ok, here's the sketch:

1. There are about 30 turns left in the game. We should plan accordingly.
2. There are a few areas that need special attention:
> War with Babylon. The war after that will be much easier since we'll have bombers.
> Planning out great artists and culture in our legendary cities. We'll pop those during the last 15 turns, for the most part.
> Wonders and tech path.
3. I'll also sketch out some priorities for each city, so I know what to build and improve in each.
4. Other game requirements.
> We need to build one more corporation. If the great people don't break kindly, we'll use one of the "wrong" ones to build cereal mills, creative constructions or alumnium co.
> Killing Humbaba with missiles alone would take 18 (two per lbow so that a redlined Humbaba defends).
It seems the thing to do is use 8 missiles, to take Humbaba down to 20% (at which point he'll still defend first), and then kill him amphibiously - something like a tank will have very high odds. Frankly, we could just kill the longbows too, so a larger galleon crew would be safer.
> We'll need Mass Media fairly early in the run, so that we can time the UN and build Hollywood.
> If we vassalise Hammy quickly, then we'll need to settle quite a bit of China to trigger domination. We'll want to plan the final war maybe 10-15 turns in advance, so we get the units there in time.

I'll post the details later today.

 

[Shaandore]

Looks good.

Problem is:

I estimate the culture output of Orleans and Gergovia around 800 and 650 on average in next 30 turns. It means that 30 turns from now they will have 32000 and 21900 culture. Which means they need about 46000 culture from GAs, in other words ~12 GAs. One golden age is very short for this.

We have a big chance of popping a GProphet in Thebes next. If we do, we could start the golden age immediately and pop 3 Caste GPs (Scientist, Merchant, Artist) to run a 4th golden age. Would we have a better chance of getting enough GAs During that? We would have to sacrifice 3GP to get one more golden age, but in 24 turns, even moderately large cities could give us Artists. In the first golden age we would set 3 or 4 cities around size 18-19 to starve us a GM and a GS. Eg Lyons, Paris, Isca, Vienne. We would also get a GArtist from Gergovia.

Having a 24 turn Golden age would help a lot generating this many artists. It would also help research.

Of course all this would only work if we pop a GProphet or GEngineer, since we can only produce the GS, GM and GA with good odds.

 

[Folket]

Also changing to cast system will help Gergovia nicely and some of the smaller would be able to run more scientists when growing from sid sushi.

I all for a second golden age if we pop an GE/GP.