SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Ramesses might know someone Brennus doesn't.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144029
It says snow are +50% and mine on snow are 5 turns. I suspect they are wrong and mine on snow is 6 turns. It also says India has fast workers. Was that not in civ 3?
It says snow are +50% and mine on snow are 5 turns. I suspect they are wrong and mine on snow is 6 turns. It also says India has fast workers. Was that not in civ 3?
Yes, that's a typo. 6 turns for a mine on ice.
India has fast workers in civ 4. They don't build stuff any faster, but do have 3 movement points so they can move onto a forest or hill, and build an improvement on the same turn.
Paris,
growing at +4F, building market on 7H, working 6 cottages
There are 7 cottages around Paris, counting the one I finish this turn.
Whip 2 pop in 3 turns to finish market.
Orleans,
Building worker for 5 turns. Then queue 3 swordmen.
Whiping on the last turn of the worker seems to make sense here. That will give 53 hammer overflow, if food overflow is turned to hammers.
Rheims,
Grow in two turns, then whip library. Start barracks. Grow in three turns again. Work pigs.
Lyons,
will put in 9 hammers into Aqueduct, whip and start hanging gardens. Should give us 62 hammers into Hanging gardens if we work food tiles to grow back. Or we could go for production and get 16 hammers a turn. So we can finish the wonder in four turns with three chops. Or we could go for food and whip the wonder after chops. I think the food whip option is better.
Tours,
I prefer to work cottage for 2 turns then whip granary and start forge for happiness. We loose 2F but gain 2H, 2C and two turns on the cottage.
Marseilles,
Work the horse until deer is improved, then change. Whip granary as soon as possible. Then start on forge.
Worker 1, worker 5
Build road and mine iron. 5 turns.
spend 1 turn at deer (since one worker can't make it to squares where we can chop into Lyon)
split to two forests and chop into Lyon,
Improve deer.
worker 2, worker 4,
build cottages between Tours and Paris.
Bautrupp 1, worker 3,
Cut down jungle then improve pigs.
Then build a cottage on grassland?
Worker 6
Build cottage on FP 2S of lyon, then move west to cut forest into hanging gardens.
Worker 7
Build plains mine for Orleans?
Empire,
binary research Code of Laws, Civil Service.
Beg 30 gold from Brennus. if succesful trade Metal Casting + 35 gold <-> Monarchy + Monotheism.
If not prefer Alpha+Currency <-> Monotheism+Monarchy+Archery+20gold trade to trading with Brennus.
Revolt to OR and HR.
Switch espionage to 100% Ramesses
It seems like the hanging gardens will finish in 10 turns. I could get it in 5 or 6 turns if we delay iron or run with workers from Paris to Lyon. We could go for just choping two forests and whiping two people. Should take the same time, 5,6 or 9 turns but we only need extra worker to get it to 5 or 6.
5 turn is delaying iron option.
Unless there is a penalty to whiping wonders?
growing at +4F, building market on 7H, working 6 cottages
There are 7 cottages around Paris, counting the one I finish this turn.
Whip 2 pop in 3 turns to finish market.
Orleans,
Building worker for 5 turns. Then queue 3 swordmen.
Whiping on the last turn of the worker seems to make sense here. That will give 53 hammer overflow, if food overflow is turned to hammers.
Rheims,
Grow in two turns, then whip library. Start barracks. Grow in three turns again. Work pigs.
Lyons,
will put in 9 hammers into Aqueduct, whip and start hanging gardens. Should give us 62 hammers into Hanging gardens if we work food tiles to grow back. Or we could go for production and get 16 hammers a turn. So we can finish the wonder in four turns with three chops. Or we could go for food and whip the wonder after chops. I think the food whip option is better.
Tours,
I prefer to work cottage for 2 turns then whip granary and start forge for happiness. We loose 2F but gain 2H, 2C and two turns on the cottage.
Marseilles,
Work the horse until deer is improved, then change. Whip granary as soon as possible. Then start on forge.
Worker 1, worker 5
Build road and mine iron. 5 turns.
spend 1 turn at deer (since one worker can't make it to squares where we can chop into Lyon)
split to two forests and chop into Lyon,
Improve deer.
worker 2, worker 4,
build cottages between Tours and Paris.
Bautrupp 1, worker 3,
Cut down jungle then improve pigs.
Then build a cottage on grassland?
Worker 6
Build cottage on FP 2S of lyon, then move west to cut forest into hanging gardens.
Worker 7
Build plains mine for Orleans?
Empire,
binary research Code of Laws, Civil Service.
Beg 30 gold from Brennus. if succesful trade Metal Casting + 35 gold <-> Monarchy + Monotheism.
If not prefer Alpha+Currency <-> Monotheism+Monarchy+Archery+20gold trade to trading with Brennus.
Revolt to OR and HR.
Switch espionage to 100% Ramesses
It seems like the hanging gardens will finish in 10 turns. I could get it in 5 or 6 turns if we delay iron or run with workers from Paris to Lyon. We could go for just choping two forests and whiping two people. Should take the same time, 5,6 or 9 turns but we only need extra worker to get it to 5 or 6.
5 turn is delaying iron option.
Unless there is a penalty to whiping wonders?
Hanging Gardens:
The goal is not simply to secure it at all costs. There is a penalty to whipping wonders, so that is not likely to be worthwhile. Probably it's better to grow onto the mines because growing is quick. If it's possible to time it with capturing a barb city, that would be great, but it might not be.
Don't forget to keep the engineer hired in Lyons.
Improvements:
I'm sure you can prioritize which of the following are most urgent:
-) Cottages around Paris
-) Resource improvements around cities with unimproved resources.
-) Chops
-) Farms/cottages/mines as appropriate for other cities.
It doesn't look like there's enough time for the last of these.
What is appropriate for other cities? I guess cottages are fine in Lyons and Orleans. They're kind of low-priority, but when we have the worker turns and population we'll work them for a while.
Marseilles just needs its resources improved, and then the hills mined.
Rheims is going to be our GP farm, so doesn't need cottages or a Barracks. A Lighthouse would be good though.
Orleans:
You know when you first learn how to axe-rush, and get your capital, through abuse of whip overflow and chops, to build 7 or 8 axemen in 10 turns? The same principle should apply here for the swordsmen.
Your plan looks like it'll go worker(5)-sword(1)-sword(1)-sword(needs a chop or whip or it'll take 3), assuming you work the mines. The barb cities are too short-term a goal to want to grow onto a third mine.
Once you're happy, I'm happy.
The goal is not simply to secure it at all costs. There is a penalty to whipping wonders, so that is not likely to be worthwhile. Probably it's better to grow onto the mines because growing is quick. If it's possible to time it with capturing a barb city, that would be great, but it might not be.
Don't forget to keep the engineer hired in Lyons.
Improvements:
I'm sure you can prioritize which of the following are most urgent:
-) Cottages around Paris
-) Resource improvements around cities with unimproved resources.
-) Chops
-) Farms/cottages/mines as appropriate for other cities.
It doesn't look like there's enough time for the last of these.
What is appropriate for other cities? I guess cottages are fine in Lyons and Orleans. They're kind of low-priority, but when we have the worker turns and population we'll work them for a while.
Marseilles just needs its resources improved, and then the hills mined.
Rheims is going to be our GP farm, so doesn't need cottages or a Barracks. A Lighthouse would be good though.
Orleans:
You know when you first learn how to axe-rush, and get your capital, through abuse of whip overflow and chops, to build 7 or 8 axemen in 10 turns? The same principle should apply here for the swordsmen.
Your plan looks like it'll go worker(5)-sword(1)-sword(1)-sword(needs a chop or whip or it'll take 3), assuming you work the mines. The barb cities are too short-term a goal to want to grow onto a third mine.
Once you're happy, I'm happy.
No to both.
There's a penalty for whipping from scratch.
Your plan is good - the worker overflow does work nicely - just you might consider chopping into or whipping the last swordsman after a turn working on it, to save a turn or two on it.
I have a hard time seeing a consensus on tech trading.
As we are not going to research calendar I'm leaning toward trading mathematics to Brennus. If I remember correctly he has suger or silk that might give him incentive to tech calendar next.
As we are not going to research calendar I'm leaning toward trading mathematics to Brennus. If I remember correctly he has suger or silk that might give him incentive to tech calendar next.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
I think the tech trading consensus is right here (I only wrote in the red fro clarification's sake). I'm fine with this.
What I don't like about the PPP is the possibility of losing Philosophy. Are we sure that we have enough time to go for CS before that? Losing it would mean a more serious race for liberalism, which means a cheaper tech from it for us. I can't really make a guess on the other landmasses' tech pace at the moment, but if you say that they are still far from philo, then we can go this way.
Other than that green light from me on the PPP with ZPV's modifications
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Sorry, it was my turn on missing something 
I would stop feeding Brennus techs. Maybe we could sell it to him for some money when he is about to be ready with researching it anyway. We all agreed to postpone Calendar for a while now. (So there is no need to make him research it for us sooner)
What do you (and the others) think about my Philosophy question?
I would stop feeding Brennus techs. Maybe we could sell it to him for some money when he is about to be ready with researching it anyway. We all agreed to postpone Calendar for a while now. (So there is no need to make him research it for us sooner)
What do you (and the others) think about my Philosophy question?
Brennus is close to researching Mathematics already - I think he's got about 130 beakers left - and that is the reason why trading it to him might be ok.Sorry, it was my turn on missing something
I would stop feeding Brennus techs. Maybe we could sell it to him for some money when he is about to be ready with researching it anyway. We all agreed to postpone Calendar for a while now. (So there is no need to make him research it for us sooner)
What do you (and the others) think about my Philosophy question?
Calendar? Of course there is still urgency to get it, even if we're researching something else first.
I don't consider Philosophy denial worth the cost of delaying Civil Service. We're not ready to use any of Philo's other benefits, so it's probably better to research or trade for it later if we get the chance.
So shall I try for
beg 5 gold from brennus,
trade mathematics for 25 gold and archery with brennus
trade metal casting and 35 gold for monarchy and monotheism with Ramesses
What will happen if Ramesses has started on Metal casting?
beg 5 gold from brennus,
trade mathematics for 25 gold and archery with brennus
trade metal casting and 35 gold for monarchy and monotheism with Ramesses
What will happen if Ramesses has started on Metal casting?
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
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