SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
This is great fun. Medicine is done.
I lost an empty galleon to sitting bull. Which is good as his fleet turned around to hunt it but bad since I was planing on putting a executive on it.
This turn our last two main land cities will have MI and I have started the production of island executives. Our economy is much better now then my earlier turns.
Please come with feedback and I will try to make a PPP after dinner.
I lost an empty galleon to sitting bull. Which is good as his fleet turned around to hunt it but bad since I was planing on putting a executive on it.
This turn our last two main land cities will have MI and I have started the production of island executives. Our economy is much better now then my earlier turns.
Please come with feedback and I will try to make a PPP after dinner.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Well played Shaan and Folket! I see now a powerful Empire. SB stack is vanquished. Better than i expected. What do we do with our new GG?
I see that Thebes can build the Pentagon in 5 turns now, probably 4 after the CP. I think we must go for it. Qin has to be building the SoL, since "he's got his reasons" to not trade for Demo. I think we have to research it and beat him. It's too a big WW with all our cities to let it go. Surely we can largerly beat him on the build.
Sal offers Rifling+110g+WM for Steel (which is the cheapest tech we can trade). Why Sal? 'cause i hope to trade for Physics with Hammu. Sal Can't give Steel for it, it's too cheap.
I see that Thebes can build the Pentagon in 5 turns now, probably 4 after the CP. I think we must go for it. Qin has to be building the SoL, since "he's got his reasons" to not trade for Demo. I think we have to research it and beat him. It's too a big WW with all our cities to let it go. Surely we can largerly beat him on the build.
Sal offers Rifling+110g+WM for Steel (which is the cheapest tech we can trade). Why Sal? 'cause i hope to trade for Physics with Hammu. Sal Can't give Steel for it, it's too cheap.
Anyone have a good idea on how long to play the next miniset?
Until I finished statue of liberty? Until I capture Cahokia?
I would be willing to start ICS as well.
If we want to rush the SoL I think I can have it done in 7 turns. 2 turns to get democracy and 5 turns to build it.
Until I finished statue of liberty? Until I capture Cahokia?
I would be willing to start ICS as well.
If we want to rush the SoL I think I can have it done in 7 turns. 2 turns to get democracy and 5 turns to build it.
So my first draft for PPP.
Trade for rifling.
Get 10 infantry and 6 cannons onto native american land. Raze any cities captured. Perhaps keep one for airlift and upgrades?
Get Democracy and build the statue of liberty.
Found sid sushi and spread to as many cities as possible.
Build as many settler as possible while still researching fast enough.
Spread Mi to all cities.
Trade for rifling.
Get 10 infantry and 6 cannons onto native american land. Raze any cities captured. Perhaps keep one for airlift and upgrades?
Get Democracy and build the statue of liberty.
Found sid sushi and spread to as many cities as possible.
Build as many settler as possible while still researching fast enough.
Spread Mi to all cities.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Well played!
First priority now is spreading the corps. Establish Sushi with the GM sitting in Bibracte this turn, and start building an executive immediately. Send it to some place that can build or whip next exec in 1 turn and lays within 9 tiles and is reachable by Railroad. Continue doing 1 turn executives with whips if needed. Don't forget to spread to Gergovia early. Thebes also has a priority here. We will want to change around some farms to Watermills/Workshops when we see the amount of food we have in Thebes.
We need factories and coal plants everywhere. Factory is useless without coal plant. In some cases we will have some health issues, but luckily we have medicine. Eg. Orleans has many unhalthy faces, so after the culture buildings (Hindu Mandir, Theater), it should produce a grocer, a hospital and an aqueduct.
We can start factories in any city that already has MI.
Gergovia should get the Globe theater, but we will need 4 more theaters for that.
We also want to settle the two northern filler cities soon. But not as many settlers as possible. That makes no sense.
The tech path is not very straightforward now. I guess that grabbing SoL makes sense (If we can, otherwise failgold is always nice). BTW with very good overflow management even 4 turns SoL might be possible in Thebes. After Democracy I would go for Phisycs->Electricity->Radio for those nice wonders.
There is one more fish that will be in our culture borders once Rouen pops its borders in 3 turns, it is 4S1E of Rouen.
Quite a few Granary whips are in order in the sushi cities. Next build should be a Courthouse to reduce maintenance hit from corp spreading. Forge can come after these, but by then these will have MI.
I don't think that we want to do an overseas invasion now. Preparing for that is OK though. Apache and Uzbek can start building some cannons/Infantry once we trade for Rifling. We might want to put a hold on that too, we could grab some more with our techs. If we trade eg. Biology away, they will trade it around and we will have to give up one more tech for Phisycs. There is no rush going to the other continent IMO.
We are at 50% land now.
I would only trade for Rifling after we have Demo. Let's see if we can trade Democracy<-> Rifling with Hammu. If not, I would give up Steel.
If physics is available, then Steel+Demo to Hammu for Phisycs and Steel for Rifling with Saladin should work.
If not, then we should tech Physics after Democracy. In any case, stop when we get/lose SoL.
EDIT: we get our 3rd GP in 4 turns. I think we should wait with the Golden age until after sushi is well spread and our cities are big so we can starve a lot of Great People.
EDIT2: the Thebes SoL plan doesn't involve "rushing", i.e. we don't need to whip at all.
First priority now is spreading the corps. Establish Sushi with the GM sitting in Bibracte this turn, and start building an executive immediately. Send it to some place that can build or whip next exec in 1 turn and lays within 9 tiles and is reachable by Railroad. Continue doing 1 turn executives with whips if needed. Don't forget to spread to Gergovia early. Thebes also has a priority here. We will want to change around some farms to Watermills/Workshops when we see the amount of food we have in Thebes.
We need factories and coal plants everywhere. Factory is useless without coal plant. In some cases we will have some health issues, but luckily we have medicine. Eg. Orleans has many unhalthy faces, so after the culture buildings (Hindu Mandir, Theater), it should produce a grocer, a hospital and an aqueduct.
We can start factories in any city that already has MI.
Gergovia should get the Globe theater, but we will need 4 more theaters for that.
We also want to settle the two northern filler cities soon. But not as many settlers as possible. That makes no sense.
The tech path is not very straightforward now. I guess that grabbing SoL makes sense (If we can, otherwise failgold is always nice). BTW with very good overflow management even 4 turns SoL might be possible in Thebes. After Democracy I would go for Phisycs->Electricity->Radio for those nice wonders.
There is one more fish that will be in our culture borders once Rouen pops its borders in 3 turns, it is 4S1E of Rouen.
Quite a few Granary whips are in order in the sushi cities. Next build should be a Courthouse to reduce maintenance hit from corp spreading. Forge can come after these, but by then these will have MI.
I don't think that we want to do an overseas invasion now. Preparing for that is OK though. Apache and Uzbek can start building some cannons/Infantry once we trade for Rifling. We might want to put a hold on that too, we could grab some more with our techs. If we trade eg. Biology away, they will trade it around and we will have to give up one more tech for Phisycs. There is no rush going to the other continent IMO.
We are at 50% land now.
I would only trade for Rifling after we have Demo. Let's see if we can trade Democracy<-> Rifling with Hammu. If not, I would give up Steel.
If physics is available, then Steel+Demo to Hammu for Phisycs and Steel for Rifling with Saladin should work.
If not, then we should tech Physics after Democracy. In any case, stop when we get/lose SoL.
EDIT: we get our 3rd GP in 4 turns. I think we should wait with the Golden age until after sushi is well spread and our cities are big so we can starve a lot of Great People.
EDIT2: the Thebes SoL plan doesn't involve "rushing", i.e. we don't need to whip at all.
I was counting on a five turn SoL with overflow as we have 263 hammers. but then I'm not certain how overflow works. At some point overflow turns into gold, but when? But I will build a buddhist missionary for culture buildings in Gergovia/Orleans that should give massive overflow.
I think massproducing settlers make sense. they pay for themself very fast.
But priority is factories and corps.
I think massproducing settlers make sense. they pay for themself very fast.
But priority is factories and corps.
Let's not go wonder crazy. Instead, what are the next objectives?
1) Spread Sid's Sushi and Mining Inc to all our cities, finish off infrastructure, and in general, increase our research and production power.
Currently at breakeven we produce 1650 beakers/turn. Let's aim to double that in 10 turns.
SoL pales into insignificance compared with that, and isn't worth a 2-turn detour. If we manage to trade for Demo, then we can build it. We certainly shouldn't trade Democracy around since Emancipation is going to be a pain.
The time for ICS will be when we've started to fill out our current cities on corporations. We're not quite there yet.
2) Invade Babylon soonish, for the Sistine Chapel, etc.
Which units do we want to do this with? I guess cannons and infantry. What about ships? Can we get away with galleons, or should we build destroyers and transports.
Now, a handful of cities can produce all we need, at 1 unit/turn each, and at least three of the cities will give 5XP units. I don't think the Pentagon is worth the hammers.
3) Continue to set up our legendary cities.
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The naval question is key - if we need oil-based ships then we need combustion. Otherwise, probably going up to Electricity/Radio for the culture multipliers is right.
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Don't bother invading Native America. It's not worth the investment. Just pick his ships off and take peace when he'll give it.
1) Spread Sid's Sushi and Mining Inc to all our cities, finish off infrastructure, and in general, increase our research and production power.
Currently at breakeven we produce 1650 beakers/turn. Let's aim to double that in 10 turns.
SoL pales into insignificance compared with that, and isn't worth a 2-turn detour. If we manage to trade for Demo, then we can build it. We certainly shouldn't trade Democracy around since Emancipation is going to be a pain.
The time for ICS will be when we've started to fill out our current cities on corporations. We're not quite there yet.
2) Invade Babylon soonish, for the Sistine Chapel, etc.
Which units do we want to do this with? I guess cannons and infantry. What about ships? Can we get away with galleons, or should we build destroyers and transports.
Now, a handful of cities can produce all we need, at 1 unit/turn each, and at least three of the cities will give 5XP units. I don't think the Pentagon is worth the hammers.
3) Continue to set up our legendary cities.
-----------
The naval question is key - if we need oil-based ships then we need combustion. Otherwise, probably going up to Electricity/Radio for the culture multipliers is right.
-----------
Don't bother invading Native America. It's not worth the investment. Just pick his ships off and take peace when he'll give it.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Overflow turns into gold if the number of OF hammers is more than the hammers needed to get the actual build.
Eg. 31 hammers put into a Warrior without multipliers will make a warrior, 15 OF and 1 gold. Thus building a Missionary is a bad idea. I would try an aqueduct/hospital instead. (Sorry, I can't calculate it now, I have closed the game and I have to go)
Also note that we get a 4,75 multiplier on SoL in Thebes: 100% from IronWorks, 50% from Forge+Factory, 50% from Power, 100% from Stone, 25% from OrgRel and 50% from being Industrious. That gives us more than 300 hammers if we work production tiles. (some starving is okay. Build the Aqueduct/Hospital and it won't be very bad.)
This isn't strictly true about overflow. It's accurate for a city with very little production.
However, if the city naturally produces 100hpt, then you get up to 100 hammers of overflow, even from a warrior.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
I think that SoL is a good thing to aim for now. We don't really have any economic techs around that would help us anymore. It doesn't hurt the corp plans at all. But it will give us 324 BPT, and will get us to Future tech 1 faster. Also less starving with 1 more specialist.
As for trading it around, I think that it doesn't matter. Hammu might get it sooner than 2 turns, and we are not giving it to SB anyway.
@ZPV: How does it work then? I must have remembered something wrong, it was ages ago when I last read about this.
EDIT: I meant the RAW hammers of overflow need to stay under the amount of hammers needed for the build. Later it can get much higher after multipliers. I don't know how whip OF comes into the picture though.
As for trading it around, I think that it doesn't matter. Hammu might get it sooner than 2 turns, and we are not giving it to SB anyway.
@ZPV: How does it work then? I must have remembered something wrong, it was ages ago when I last read about this.
EDIT: I meant the RAW hammers of overflow need to stay under the amount of hammers needed for the build. Later it can get much higher after multipliers. I don't know how whip OF comes into the picture though.
Overflow is capped at max(city production, build cost). The wrinkle is in what counts as city production - chops, etc don't count so you simply get the hammers produced by tiles, specialists, corporations and buildings.
Spoiler :
If there's really nothing urgent, then the detour to SoL doesn't hurt as much.
I guess there isn't another tech that really can't wait, unless we go for quick Oil-based ships.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Thanks for the explanation. Missionary might be useful in the end then. (Although we should check if aqueduct gives us enough OF, because if it does, it is better, since we will get 2 unhealthy next turn in Thebes.)
SoL gives us >6000 BPT in 20 turns, that is easily 2 turns of research even 20 turns from now. It is not really a detour. Our game will last longer than that.
BTW I hope that you agree with postponing the Golden Age a bit.
I really have to go now, sorry... Good night and happy new year!
SoL gives us >6000 BPT in 20 turns, that is easily 2 turns of research even 20 turns from now. It is not really a detour. Our game will last longer than that.
BTW I hope that you agree with postponing the Golden Age a bit.
I really have to go now, sorry... Good night and happy new year!
I have no idea when we should have our golden age. But as far as I can see Gergovia is 8 turns before Thebes. Why were we worried that Gergovia would not pop the next GP?
Should I settle the great general somewhere so that we can build units with 5 xp?
So I will kill sitting bulls boats during two turns and then make peace with him.
So I will continue to build mining inc executives and send them to all places I can find. Once I filled the islands I will start building settlers with them. But priority will be given to building Sid sushi executives.
I will post a PPP tomorrow morning.
Should I settle the great general somewhere so that we can build units with 5 xp?
So I will kill sitting bulls boats during two turns and then make peace with him.
So I will continue to build mining inc executives and send them to all places I can find. Once I filled the islands I will start building settlers with them. But priority will be given to building Sid sushi executives.
I will post a PPP tomorrow morning.
PPP until I have SoL
Cities:
Found Sid Sushi in Bibactre. Bibactre has enough overflow to build two executive in one turn. By moving work around to more hammers I should be able to produce 3 executives in three turns.
I will try to plan my routes so that cities will have overflow ready when they receive Sid Sushi. First executive will go to Uzbek that has overflow ready and from Uzbek will continue to Orleans.
Second executive will move to Durocortorum which will whip coal plant next turn creating overflow. From there I can reach Thebes.
So executive will be
1: Bibactre
2: Bibactre, Uzbek
3: Bibactre, Uzbek, Orleans, Durocortorum
4: Uzbeck, Orleans, Durocortorum, probably Vienne and one more.
Build factories and coal plants. As many as I can afford while spreading corps and getting democracy in three turns. Coal plants have priority.
Will not be building units except in Apache as we are not trading for rifling yet. Are we close enough to a consensus here? Tours will get a galleon to spread MI to Amiens.
Will build one hindu temple and try to build 4 theatres.
War:
Kill sitting bulls boats then make peace.
New cities:
Once all cities have MI I will start building settlers with new executives. Planting cities on blue dots. Once Sid sushi starts to be omnipresent I will start settling red dots.
Civics, GPP:
No planed civic changes. Will get a great person in Gergovia. I have no idea when we are planing to have our next golden age.
Diplo:
Buy any resources we want.
Research:
Get Democracy then (electricity?).
workers:
First priority is to build railroad when needed by executives. Next they will build improvements.
Cities:
Found Sid Sushi in Bibactre. Bibactre has enough overflow to build two executive in one turn. By moving work around to more hammers I should be able to produce 3 executives in three turns.
I will try to plan my routes so that cities will have overflow ready when they receive Sid Sushi. First executive will go to Uzbek that has overflow ready and from Uzbek will continue to Orleans.
Second executive will move to Durocortorum which will whip coal plant next turn creating overflow. From there I can reach Thebes.
So executive will be
1: Bibactre
2: Bibactre, Uzbek
3: Bibactre, Uzbek, Orleans, Durocortorum
4: Uzbeck, Orleans, Durocortorum, probably Vienne and one more.
Build factories and coal plants. As many as I can afford while spreading corps and getting democracy in three turns. Coal plants have priority.
Will not be building units except in Apache as we are not trading for rifling yet. Are we close enough to a consensus here? Tours will get a galleon to spread MI to Amiens.
Will build one hindu temple and try to build 4 theatres.
War:
Kill sitting bulls boats then make peace.
New cities:
Once all cities have MI I will start building settlers with new executives. Planting cities on blue dots. Once Sid sushi starts to be omnipresent I will start settling red dots.
Civics, GPP:
No planed civic changes. Will get a great person in Gergovia. I have no idea when we are planing to have our next golden age.
Diplo:
Buy any resources we want.
Research:
Get Democracy then (electricity?).
workers:
First priority is to build railroad when needed by executives. Next they will build improvements.
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