SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
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Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
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Just refuse the trade.
Yes, moving the Privateer might have an effect, if it goes nearby an AI city or unit, they might not do the same number of RNG rolls.
Doing everything as before is impossible, we all know that. You should be near the point when you finish SoL. I'm waiting eagerly for your report.
EDIT I see you posted a save. I can't look at it right now. Maybe tomorrow afternoon.
Yes, moving the Privateer might have an effect, if it goes nearby an AI city or unit, they might not do the same number of RNG rolls.
Doing everything as before is impossible, we all know that. You should be near the point when you finish SoL. I'm waiting eagerly for your report.
EDIT I see you posted a save. I can't look at it right now. Maybe tomorrow afternoon.
We got SoL.
Luckily for us AlanH responded to me first and said that If a new situation appears I should do as I would have done the first time I played if that situation appeared. So I bought the fish and rice from sitting bull.
Hammurabi has extra iron that we can buy if we get +1 relations.
Not much happened that was not planed for. China started to hunt our privateers with frigates. So I'm avoiding them. China also got a great merchant.
We have failed a couple of Sid Sushi spread. I think the count is three. But it is spreading. Four cities lack MI. Three of them will have it this turn. One will have it in four turns (humbaba heaven place). I have build a first filler settler and a MI executive to go with it.
Luckily for us AlanH responded to me first and said that If a new situation appears I should do as I would have done the first time I played if that situation appeared. So I bought the fish and rice from sitting bull.
Hammurabi has extra iron that we can buy if we get +1 relations.
Not much happened that was not planed for. China started to hunt our privateers with frigates. So I'm avoiding them. China also got a great merchant.
We have failed a couple of Sid Sushi spread. I think the count is three. But it is spreading. Four cities lack MI. Three of them will have it this turn. One will have it in four turns (humbaba heaven place). I have build a first filler settler and a MI executive to go with it.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Executives and missionaries work like spies, even in Vanilla and Warlords where there're no spies. A 99% safe spread to a city with already a Corporation (or a religion) happens after 5 turns. After 3 it can still fail. Much depends also by the city size. The bigger the size, the better the chances of a successful spreading.
I recommended to be careful with execs and missionaries. I thought you knew this small trick, but probably i was wrong.
It can fail after 100 turns. Waiting makes no difference. (It even makes no difference to the chances of a spy being successful; just the cost of espionage.
)It simply depends on how many religions/corporations there are in the city.
For an executive the chance of success in a domestic city is 100/91/82/74/65/56/48 % with 0...6 corporations already present.
Ditto for missionaries and religions.
In foreign cities, the chances are 100/88/77/65/54/42/31 %.
Repeat for Folket: waiting makes no difference. Don't do it.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I'm not suggesting to wait, i'm just reporting what i know on the matter. Was Dhoomstriker to describe this points and he seemed well prepared on the game mechanics. Less on strategy, but this is another question.It can fail after 100 turns. Waiting makes no difference. (It even makes no difference to the chances of a spy being successful; just the cost of espionage.
It simply depends on how many religions/corporations there are in the city.(...)
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
At this point we need to define what our VCs are. Later (promise) i'll update the objectives and the roster. before you play i'd like to have this decision well clear.
For now, as short term goals, i recommend to build grocers in the less healthy cities and any building helpinf with health. It's stupid to have 1-2 or even more citizens not usable for the lack of health.
Then, the Emancipation problem. Since we need to bring two cities to legendary, keeping the slider @ 10-20% culture is not a problem. With our cheap theaters and colosseums we can max the benefit.
Last, if we think to take Sistine, better start preparing a war now. But we need to keep a couple stacks in our continent to avoid surprises.
I prefer to avoid the diplomatic victories as they will require a lot more work. Conquest and domination are both really easy. Space is easy but slower then future tech 1. Culture also seems slower then future tech 1 as well, but we need to calculate at which turn we can get a culture victory vs a space victory.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
This is my same problem. We need to have 2 LCs so Culture can be easier, but maybe not.
A note for your end TS: unless we have particular targets, usually cities build whealth until just over the break even, then the rest build research if not busy with units or structures.
I noticed you did not used binary research. In BtS is less mandatory than in precedent versions, but it's always a good habit to use it.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
I have stated my preferences on VCs: UN+Domination.
We only need a vassal (they are obligated to vote for us, right?) and to make sure we are below 2/3 of world population. That can be done with last minute whips if needed.
We can reach domination limit after the vote is won.
Where could it go wrong? Yes, we might need to look at some game mechanics, but that's all. I'm willing to look into related code if we can't find sufficient information (I doubt it).
EDIT: I have never ever used AP victory, it would be even better if we could avoid researching MM.
We only need a vassal (they are obligated to vote for us, right?) and to make sure we are below 2/3 of world population. That can be done with last minute whips if needed.
We can reach domination limit after the vote is won.
Where could it go wrong? Yes, we might need to look at some game mechanics, but that's all. I'm willing to look into related code if we can't find sufficient information (I doubt it).
EDIT: I have never ever used AP victory, it would be even better if we could avoid researching MM.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Binary: we are losing at most 1 beaker and 1 gold every turn. At this point in the game, the probability of losing a turn on a later tech because of that is absimal. (<<1%). On the other hand we have a steady gold reserve for spreading corps, things are much easier to calculate, and we avoid possible AI gold demands that could lead to negative diplo modifiers.
Shaandore, We will need a vassal that is not the second most populous otherwise they will vote for themselves. So we can't beat everyone else down to nothing. Also we need to keep the vassal big enough. And we need to be able to win domination fast afterwards.
Perhaps that is the best idea. We try to make Hammurabi surrender after taking one city. Then we get plenty of paratroopers, settlers and nukes. On the turn of the vote we raze all cities and settle massive amount of cities to get a domination victory.
Perhaps that is the best idea. We try to make Hammurabi surrender after taking one city. Then we get plenty of paratroopers, settlers and nukes. On the turn of the vote we raze all cities and settle massive amount of cities to get a domination victory.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
I don't understand. We can capture cities the next turn with "Lois XIV has won a Diplomatic victory" written on the screen. We will need to capture enough cities so we reach Dom limit. We don't need to do any warring on the turn of the vote.
And as I said, maybe AP is a better approach if we can do it properly. I have no experience with that. In that case we can click on Future tech 1 right after reasearching Radio
(Alright, maybe we want to secure some military techs first: Combustion, Industrialism, Flight)
I'm looking at the save now, I will post some ideas after lunch.
And as I said, maybe AP is a better approach if we can do it properly. I have no experience with that. In that case we can click on Future tech 1 right after reasearching Radio
(Alright, maybe we want to secure some military techs first: Combustion, Industrialism, Flight)
I'm looking at the save now, I will post some ideas after lunch.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Can anyone verify this: if we take all the Babylonian cities, are we still below the Dom Limit? How many tiles? If results a safe number, we can then take the border Arab cities (keep or raze makes almost no difference) so the borders of our cities will expand over tiles where we already have some culture. Dom done.
We can customize the BUG advisors to have the exact number of tiles we own right after we hit enter. Just sum the present Babylonian ones.
We can customize the BUG advisors to have the exact number of tiles we own right after we hit enter. Just sum the present Babylonian ones.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Well played so far! 
Here are my suggestions, I hope you find them useful.
Our goal should be getting the Hit wonders and Eiffel tower. Meanwhile making an army that can take Babylon and Dur-Kurigalzu in a short war, and capitulate Hammu right after that. (Should be possible in a 2-turn war). We should have spies in position to take down culture defense. We can even gift Babylon back, all its wonders are obsolete. The price is Dur-Kurigalzu, and we need it soon for the legendary cities.
We should focus our EP on next target (Saladin or Qin?)
Economy: We should be able to run 100% or near 100% slider from now on. Set some cities on research if they have nothing else to do: ~250 gold surplus is enough every turn for Sushi spread .
Orleans should build a theater immediately and change the specialists to Artists. Produce Culture here instead of Wealth if we can. Gergovia's next build should be a Salon after the Mandir is ready.
Don't abandon factories, we need them everywhere: including Nemetocenna and Calleva. We need to use the whip while we can.
Cities:
Sushi: Gergovia and Thebes . Be prepared to send one more executive if the first fails here. They must get sushi ASAP. I don't understand how these still lack sushi, even if their executives failed, they should have been prioritized more than eg. Pi-Ramesses
Apache should also get Sushi as soon as Gergovia has it.
Orleans and Paris are very unhealthy. I suggest Grocers followed by Aqueducts here. (Orleans only after it has built its theater)
Specialists: Please check specialists every turn. We don't want spies unless there is no other specialist slot. Unfortunately SoL has the disadvantega of increasing the amount of micro significantly...
We want artists in our legendaries. Other than that Priests are very good due to Angkor. With the 100% hammer modifiers they provide ~5.5 gold and ~4.5 beakers when building wealth, or 8.5 beakers and ~1.5 gold when building research. Thus they are better than scientists in most cities.
Don't start building wealth in any new city unless it has basic infra. That includes Granary, Courthouse, Forge, Library. Even lighthouse if the city has sushi resource. Eg. Poitier can build a library in 1 turn, and run a scientists after that. An immediate gain of 10 beakers for the rest of the game. (It will bring in much more when the city gets sushi)
Note about water tiles: we shouldn't work them except in Isca. We have better specialists. Only work them if we want a megacity.
War prep:
I would build some Galleons in Chartres, Avignon, maybe Memphis. Board the Infantry, the cannons from Alexandria, the two Great generals and some Muskets from Alexandria. This should be enough.
After Electricity, we should get Combustion so we don't need to worry about our navy. At this time we should be on route to Babylon. We send a Destroyer after the fleet, that should provide enough defense. Uzbek can help out with some infantry.
We should land the Dur-Kurigalzu stack first 3S of Dur-Kurigalzu. They move to Saladin's copper tile on Hammu's land before DoW. Then we attack next turn with this stack and some transports unload on one of the neighbouring tiles of Babylon. We get both cities defense down, and conquer them. This should be enoufh to cap him. If not, we should be ready with some more troops to get Akkad or Nippur.
Techs:
I would go
Electricity->Combustion->Radio->Flight
Combustion for metal navy, Flight for easier travelling to the other continent.
Diplo:
We are looking for more Sushi trades as usual. Other than that, I don't think that we will get any useful trades out of the AIs any more. So we should try and make friends if we go for Diplo.
Don't forget:
- make a workboat in Rouen for that fish 4S1E
- whip Courthouse in Amiens into Forge
- produce Culture in Alexandria for one turn (Westernmost city on our landmass) to get the crab next trun instead of in 9 turns
- (maybe) sell Qin Repl. parts for 380 gold. (Only if the other team members agree.)
Here are my suggestions, I hope you find them useful.
Our goal should be getting the Hit wonders and Eiffel tower. Meanwhile making an army that can take Babylon and Dur-Kurigalzu in a short war, and capitulate Hammu right after that. (Should be possible in a 2-turn war). We should have spies in position to take down culture defense. We can even gift Babylon back, all its wonders are obsolete. The price is Dur-Kurigalzu, and we need it soon for the legendary cities.
We should focus our EP on next target (Saladin or Qin?)
Economy: We should be able to run 100% or near 100% slider from now on. Set some cities on research if they have nothing else to do: ~250 gold surplus is enough every turn for Sushi spread .
Orleans should build a theater immediately and change the specialists to Artists. Produce Culture here instead of Wealth if we can. Gergovia's next build should be a Salon after the Mandir is ready.
Don't abandon factories, we need them everywhere: including Nemetocenna and Calleva. We need to use the whip while we can.
Cities:
Sushi: Gergovia and Thebes . Be prepared to send one more executive if the first fails here. They must get sushi ASAP. I don't understand how these still lack sushi, even if their executives failed, they should have been prioritized more than eg. Pi-Ramesses
Apache should also get Sushi as soon as Gergovia has it.
Orleans and Paris are very unhealthy. I suggest Grocers followed by Aqueducts here. (Orleans only after it has built its theater)
Specialists: Please check specialists every turn. We don't want spies unless there is no other specialist slot. Unfortunately SoL has the disadvantega of increasing the amount of micro significantly...
We want artists in our legendaries. Other than that Priests are very good due to Angkor. With the 100% hammer modifiers they provide ~5.5 gold and ~4.5 beakers when building wealth, or 8.5 beakers and ~1.5 gold when building research. Thus they are better than scientists in most cities.
Don't start building wealth in any new city unless it has basic infra. That includes Granary, Courthouse, Forge, Library. Even lighthouse if the city has sushi resource. Eg. Poitier can build a library in 1 turn, and run a scientists after that. An immediate gain of 10 beakers for the rest of the game. (It will bring in much more when the city gets sushi)
Note about water tiles: we shouldn't work them except in Isca. We have better specialists. Only work them if we want a megacity.
War prep:
I would build some Galleons in Chartres, Avignon, maybe Memphis. Board the Infantry, the cannons from Alexandria, the two Great generals and some Muskets from Alexandria. This should be enough.
After Electricity, we should get Combustion so we don't need to worry about our navy. At this time we should be on route to Babylon. We send a Destroyer after the fleet, that should provide enough defense. Uzbek can help out with some infantry.
We should land the Dur-Kurigalzu stack first 3S of Dur-Kurigalzu. They move to Saladin's copper tile on Hammu's land before DoW. Then we attack next turn with this stack and some transports unload on one of the neighbouring tiles of Babylon. We get both cities defense down, and conquer them. This should be enoufh to cap him. If not, we should be ready with some more troops to get Akkad or Nippur.
Techs:
I would go
Electricity->Combustion->Radio->Flight
Combustion for metal navy, Flight for easier travelling to the other continent.
Diplo:
We are looking for more Sushi trades as usual. Other than that, I don't think that we will get any useful trades out of the AIs any more. So we should try and make friends if we go for Diplo.
Don't forget:
- make a workboat in Rouen for that fish 4S1E
- whip Courthouse in Amiens into Forge
- produce Culture in Alexandria for one turn (Westernmost city on our landmass) to get the crab next trun instead of in 9 turns
- (maybe) sell Qin Repl. parts for 380 gold. (Only if the other team members agree.)
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