SGOTM 16 - Maple Sporks

[Ororo]

EDIT: xpost with nocho

Definitely AH next, both for the potential Horses and for the first ring food in our 2nd city.
Not sure I like the city placed 1W of the Sheep as it blocks a nice grassland hill. We can later put a filler city that will grab the Deer since we are not going to be working those anyway (Sheep, Fish and floodplain cottages are all better tiles to be working early on).

We should IMO play nice with Brennus since his religion can solve most of our early game happiness issues...which reminds me that I see absolutely no source of early game happiness (wine, incense, silk are not early happiness sources unless we oracle monarchy/calendar). You have to keep in mind that in order to run your caste scientist/merchants you must have a higher happy cap than mere 5...otherwise you're going to starve very quickly.

Oracle. Everybody mentions it, but what should we take from it? Currency paired with a GLH would probably be our best bet here seeing as the land is really crap one. However, I can't imagine getting Math in time. Some Marble/Gems/Gold would give us some hint on which direction to choose, though with none it's a tough decision. Alpha might be a valid choice.

And btw. the TOP wonder on a map like this is definitely not the Oracle. It's GLH! Please, let's make sure we don't lose it.

Scouting is going be our number 1 priority here. An extra warrior might even be worth it. ( I haven't done the Math though so it might delay the Oracle a little bit)

 

[Ororo]

- Worker mines 4 turns. Worker chops twice in 8 turns for 60h into settler

We don't have Mathematics yet and we're not IND either so 2 chops = 40 hammers.

 

[nocho]

We don't have Mathematics yet and we're not IND either so 2 chops = 40 hammers.

Crap, might be mixing up with epic here. Doesn't really change the plan though, we're just left with less overflow after the settler.

Edit: umm, we are IND, but that doesn't make our chop better, does it? It's not going to a wonder after all.

Edit2: interesting you bring GLH back on the table. Making stuff easier, huh?

 

[DwarfSleepy]

well, for GLH we need fishing, masonry, a coastal city, a lighthouse and THEN GLH, with enough forests to chop it quickly... we'd better get going

 

[Iagoc]

We deducted earlier that there were few civs with coastal capitals, so no extreme rush, although we should keep it in mind... Perhaps try to settle our second city coastal for the GHL?

 

[Ondskan]

Dwarf I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective.
The agreed plan should be something like that if there is a case for alarm such as 2 or more barb cities or 2 or more aggressive neighbours like Japan or Scandinavia then the person playing should go for archery. If not follow through with trying to get Alphabet and Oracle (aesthetics?)

Of course the seriousness of the problem must be decided by the person playing but if he wants or has the time he could also make a pause and declare the situation.

Either way making a plan like "we should tech or not tech archery now" makes no sense. We can only make a plan in which cases we should do it.

 

[Ondskan]

well, for GLH we need fishing, masonry, a coastal city, a lighthouse and THEN GLH, with enough forests to chop it quickly... we'd better get going

Yeah I agree. I see no potential for a GLH atm. But again if we don't feel threatened and get some good land down south, everything is possible.

 

[Sengir]

nocho's plan sounds good.

About GLH, well, only masonry and lighthouse are not on the immediate todo list, so that's not a lot of adjustment to make. Timing will be everything, so best to proceed in no too big steps.

 

[pigswill]

In 12 turns we should have AH, a settler and more scouting. We may also have met more AI (or maybe not).

If we have horses available then that's likely to be our first city. If we don't have horses then we'll have a better idea of how much empty land we have around us and we can then discuss how we're going to manage barbarians.

 

[DwarfSleepy]

I think you're good to go until settler is built.

 

[nocho]

Okay, I felt that support to go until AH was rather unanimous and indeed only after that options really start to diverge. Hence I played 11 turns to AH. Could shave off a turn by working the silk tile a turn or two instead of the mine and felt like that was worth it. Meanwhile we meet this guy in the jungly south:

In the uploaded save the settler just received 2nd chop and will be finished next turn. The all important decision is where to settle. Rather surprising, AH did reveal horses!

It's actually in a spot that makes you wonder whether to settle 1W of sheep after all, or rather spread those resources over 2 different cities.

Note the 2nd warrior headed west/south-west, as the entire sheep area was unfogged by our 2nd border pop. However, it had to run from a bear so made a detour a bit north again.

Our first warrior after bumping into Ramses' envoy bumped into a lion, which netted a woodsman1 promo and some turns of healing. It has encountered jungle and some nice tiles that we'd need IW for to clean (pig, double gem).

I'd like to play a couple of turns more, but could hand over if team wants. However, we now seriously have to discuss
1) tech path and
2) where to settle.

I'd also propose to
3) switch to slavery after settler is finished
4) farm the capital's FP, though worker should likely accompany settler immediately
5) hence see to getting a 2nd worker out soon

Find the save here.

Spoiler Log :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 3080 BC to 2640 BC:


Turn 25, 3000 BC: The borders of Paris have expanded!

Turn 27, 2920 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs Louis XIV's Warrior (3.13)
Turn 27, 2920 BC: Combat Odds: 4.8%
Turn 27, 2920 BC: (Animal Combat: +10%)
Turn 27, 2920 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 27, 2920 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 27, 2920 BC: Louis XIV's Warrior is hit for 15 (83/100HP)
Turn 27, 2920 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 27, 2920 BC: Louis XIV's Warrior is hit for 15 (68/100HP)
Turn 27, 2920 BC: Louis XIV's Warrior is hit for 15 (53/100HP)
Turn 27, 2920 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 27, 2920 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 27, 2920 BC: Louis XIV's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Lion!

Turn 33, 2680 BC: You have discovered Animal Husbandry!
Turn 33, 2680 BC: Brennus has founded Vienne in a distant land.

Turn 34, 2640 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 20 ℤ for Paris.

 

[Ondskan]

land is starting to look a lil sexier for each round.

 

[Norvin_Green]

I'd settle 1W of the sheep, have worker pasture sheep then horse, roading those 2 as well should connect capital and allow chariots. Have new city go warrior>lh>GLH.

Tech: fishing>sailing>masonry>pottery

3rd city I'd put right on the incense and cottage it all.

@Ororo - why is GLH best wonder on this type of map (I don't doubt you - I just want to understand). Food seems pretty abundant so I would think 'Mids would be strong too?!?

 

[DwarfSleepy]

Rather surprising, AH did reveal horses!

Almost a disappointment, isn't it? Makes some choices a little easier/more clear

 

[astre]

quite diappointed yeh

I'd settle 1W of the sheep and start with a warrior. but before rushing TGL, i think we should use a test game to see if we can build TGL and oracle in reasonable time and how to proceed on that.

any idea of reasonable time for TGL?
and if we have nothing to bulb with the oracle, MC (and colossus) is always nice to slingshot

btw, small question: what does real game tile means?

 

[DwarfSleepy]

quite diappointed yeh

I'd settle 1W of the sheep and start with a warrior. but before rushing TGL, i think we should use a test game to see if we can build TGL and oracle in reasonable time and how to proceed on that.

any idea of reasonable time for TGL?
and if we have nothing to bulb with the oracle, MC (and colossus) is always nice to slingshot

btw, small question: what does real game tile means?

agree on the testing, maybe even the city location can be part of the testing variables.

Signs saying "Real Game" are just a reminder that this is the real game, as opposed to the test game. This hopefully avoids confusion of people testing things in the real game , or playing the real game in the test game The signs are placed randomly on the map, so that every view roughly contains one sign.

 

[Ororo]

Crap, might be mixing up with epic here. Doesn't really change the plan though, we're just left with less overflow after the settler.

Edit: umm, we are IND, but that doesn't make our chop better, does it? It's not going to a wonder after all.

Edit2: interesting you bring GLH back on the table. Making stuff easier, huh?

You're right. I meant IMP

 

[Ororo]

@Ororo - why is GLH best wonder on this type of map (I don't doubt you - I just want to understand). Food seems pretty abundant so I would think 'Mids would be strong too?!?

GLH is absolutely "non-map dependant". You will always get your 2 extra per city regardless of which tiles you are working. Plus, this revenue will double once you establish foreign trade routes... It has a synergy with Currency too as that will mean another 33% increase.

 

[Ororo]

any idea of reasonable time for TGL?
and if we have nothing to bulb with the oracle, MC (and colossus) is always nice to slingshot

Seeing those Gems in the south MC is not a bad option actually. However, we'll need to steal IW from Brennus to get rid of the stupid jungle.

 

[nocho]

Speaking of test games, is somebody prepared to make one? Or update the ones that were made for the start? I don't really have the time right now. I kind of agree that it'd be nice to test feasibility of various wonders. Last game most intense testing phase was also in the T40-T80 range where we're about to enter now. That everything went down because of a random barb warrior anyway, isn't relevant anymore.