SGOTM 16 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Ozbenno · Dec 5, 2012

OK, draft PPP

Brennus

He has 2 units in a size 1 city with no food sourcen but an iron mine, so in 10 turns best he can come up with is 1 unit, tops two, archers or axes. I plan to leave chariot x 1, catapult x 2, spear x 1, crossbow x 1 and sword x 1 here to take it in 10 turns, plan to keep this one.

Ramesses

Everyone else from the Celtic invasion is headed to Egypt. Will take the barb city this turn, gather troops here and invade NW towards Thebes, taking any cities in the way. Will send garrison's along too and build archers where practical

I plan to invade directly after the next AP vote (ie the turn the resolution if any comes up (0 turns to next vote). Going to get our chariot in the south to have a wander about and see where he is.

Question: If he has any cash at that stage, should I sell Machinery to make it harder to upgrade troops?

Ramesses' power is much less than ours but having longbows helps alot, we're going to have to sacrifice many catapults, so WW could be an issue

Louis

What to research, Compass or Civil Service, partial to Compass myself.

Going to do a mass courthouse build and whip, not sure that more troops serve any purpose now but happy to hear a different story (maybe replacement cats near the front).

Spare workers are going to road to the front and build cottages where practical to get us going, our cities will work cottages where practical as well.

Anything else???

Ozbenno · Dec 5, 2012

As for broad strategy, I not sure about space/culture combo. We have to fire off the ship at least 8 (or 10) turns before we win the game, if we already have the GAs to win by culture then we are wasting 8-10 turns, if we don't have the GAs, we potentially risk losing if we pop something else. I think UN/AP and culture go better, we wait until we win the vote and then burnt the GAs the turn we win. Same would go for conquest/domination. But it might be easier to win space than get the votes of the unknown AI.

I agree that after Ramesses is no more we turtle and get some science going, we will have a massive empire and should burn through the techs quickly once we have the Pyramids and the economy under control.

Ronnie1 · Dec 6, 2012

CATS! Lots of them!

Do it!

McArine · Dec 6, 2012

Mostly agree with the PPP.

And yes lots and lots of CATS!.

We should maybe discuss farms vs. cottages. We are going to need a lot of GA's if we want to go the culture way. And we still need a GP and three more GPs for Shrine and Coorporations.
So maybe we should go for a specialist economy instead of a cottage economy?

Regarding vc. I also think a diplomatic/culture approach should be what we aim for. The big question regarding that is, can we manage an AP victory, and Future Tech 1 before someone research Mass Media? (or can we still win AP, if another civ has researched Mass Media?) Or should we aim for a UN victory? If we can't get an AP win, could Space Race be faster/easier than UN?

Ozbenno · Dec 6, 2012

McArine said:
We should maybe discuss farms vs. cottages. We are going to need a lot of GA's if we want to go the culture way. And we still need a GP and three more GPs for Shrine and Coorporations.
So maybe we should go for a specialist economy instead of a cottage economy?

Not suggesting we go cottage economy, just a good way at the moment to make some money, cottages can be farmed over later in the game when we're farming specialists, just need to kick start our economy.

Sleepless · Dec 6, 2012

adrianj said:
I'm quite happy with our pace.
active players are making executive decisions like razing undesirable cities and making tech trades. These "less important" decisions can really bog the team down if we stop for every one of them.

We might be at a point where the PPP is really about broad strategy, eg, civic changes, wonder builds, city build 'themes' and tech path. Micromanagement, specific builds, diplomacy, worker moves and unit moves I think we can have faith in the active player.

If team members do have an idea for neat tactical trickery, by all means speak out. Timing the war declaration to try to avoid the AP resolutions is an example.

Agreed. We will have alot of cities very shortly. Still important to MM them especially if we build wealth as the city governors are useless at that.

Conquistador 63 · Dec 6, 2012

Everybody here already knows it, but I'll remind it anyways...
Also try to apply some city specialization:
. markets in the shrine cities
. GP farms where possible (food heavy cities, or with enough WW)
. wealth in hammer heavy cities to help maintain science slider
etc etc

Sleepless · Dec 6, 2012

Thoughts on victory conditions. With the requirement of 3 corps culture should be one. Especially if we pick up Sids and another culture corp. Ideally the other one will be mining.

Other I'm torn between domination or a diplo whether UN or AP. We do need someone else to vote for us but with the likelihood of Civs running FR at some point perhaps it won't be as difficult as I thought at first. Running a shared fav civic - gift techs and resource trades is usually enough. Always try and convert someone as well if needed. That said we can wait a while till we see the lie of the land.

@Ozbenno basic PPP sounds good.

Some thoughts though.

We need another city offshore asap for the trade routes. We can probably move the archer as a fogbuster and take the sword/xbow from the island as well.

I think we have another GG in Paris? If so I'd settle there or another strong prod site and keep that city on mil for a while.

Bibracte. Try and spread Christianity there (think the missionary is in Orleans), whip its temples Conf first for the hammers and try and max priests for the Christian shrine.

Spread conf as much as possible so we can veto any votes without the diplo hit. With taking some of Rams cities might not be a problem anyway as we gain votes while he loses..

Farms v cottages... For the moment apart from grass rivers I wouldn't bother with cottages. Food can be whipped for buildings/units. Bear in mind once we take Thebes we ideally want to go rep anyway.

Tech would prefer to go CS for chain irrigation etc though for the next 10 or so turns expect we will still be running at a loss so not to many beakers either way.

One thing I wouldn't do is trade Machinery to Ram under any circumstances.

Have to be wary of any Horse Archers. So def need a spear or 2 in the main stack and to protect any gains as city defenders at first.

Good luck Ozbenno.

adrianj · Dec 6, 2012

Given the length of this game, I prefer to go the cottage economy. The specialist economy has diminishing returns as Great People become more expensive.

That said, some (2 or 3) specialised GP farms are always a nice complement.

Good luck Oz.

Ronnie1 · Dec 6, 2012

adrianj said:
Given the length of this game, I prefer to go the cottage economy. The specialist economy has diminishing returns as Great People become more expensive.

That said, some (2 or 3) specialised GP farms are always a nice complement.

Good luck Oz.

I agree with this view. I have been playing around some with specialist economies. They are great early in the game, even better with the Mids of course. By mid game, say turns 200-300, they start to get passed by the cottage economy IMO.

I may be missing something, and I am willing to try a specialist economy if the majority thinks it is doable, I just have doubts.

Sleepless · Dec 7, 2012

No probs with a cottage economy as such but citizens working non river grass tiles as a cottage will have a very slow payback time. be better to convert farms later on to cottages with emancipation. Now we need to grow/whip units/buildings which certainly isn't great for cottages.

Ozbenno · Dec 8, 2012

Played some turns, would have played a few more but we popped a GE and not sure what to do with him. We can build Hagia Sofia or keep for a corp, not sure.

Economy got back on track, we're +30 or so at 0%.

We declared on Ramesses after the next vote was due, no sign of AP pressure coming up, we just had a vote on AP leader come up last time. I have spread Confucianism to a couple cities with a couple more in sight. If we switched religion think we might even have more votes than him.

We have had good luck with Ramesses so far, have taken 2 cities at a loss of 1 cat each city, I razed the first one as it had nothing and kept the second as it is quite good. Thebes is in our sight and it isn't that heavily defended, 3 turns it is ours I reckon.

He was nice enough to found Islam for us as well if we need another shrine.

Whatsisname is gone as well.

Spoiler :

I am away for the next few days so can't continue, just need to decide how to use the GE and keep hammering Ramesses.

Sleepless · Dec 8, 2012

Looking good Ozbenno :goodjob:

Have to look at the save before commenting to much

.

GE I would save for a Corp. Whether mining or ???. Should def try and get the prophet from Bibracte next though.

More good news another one ticked off our list so 3 down 7 to go.

Ozbenno · Dec 8, 2012

Sleepless said:
GE I would save for a Corp. Whether mining or ???. Should def try and get the prophet from Bibracte next though.

Bibracte prophet is next (38 turns I think), not sure we can get another prophet in (will need a confucian temple) but can starve a bit I guess.

McArine · Dec 8, 2012

Well played Ozbenno :-)

Some quick thoughts.
Economy: We still need a couple more courthouses, so remember to apply the :whipped:

. I think even Paris should get one. And how about the Forbidden Palace in Bibracte? that should also improve our economy quite a bit. Or should Bibracte just focus on GP building?
As mentioned before, another city on the island will also help our economy.
I think our economy can get a big boost the next 10 turns, if we keep making an effort to get it on track.

Thebes in three turns. Thebes is very well placed, it's on a hill, have rivers on three sides and that first longbowman has +75% hills defence. I think we need to move the stack W of Thebes, so we don't get "cross the river" penalties. And it'll take us 3 turns just to get into position. I'm afraid it's going to take 5 turns instead.

Ronnie1 · Dec 8, 2012

I would say Forbidden Palace further south than Bibracte.

I agree with crossing river before attacking Thebes.

Another island city yes also, but where exactly?

More Courthouses, yes, but maybe not Paris just yet. Still better just building wealth there if we are short of cash.

Conquistador 63 · Dec 8, 2012

The turn set roster order is...
Players
1) Ronnie1 Just Played
2) Ozbenno Up Now
3) Conquistador63 On Deck
4) McArine
5) Sleepless

I am away for the next few days so can't continue, just need to decide how to use the GE and keep hammering Ramesses.

I suppose I am up then? If so, I got the save.
Had a quick look at it.
I'd save the GE for the Corp (Mining Inc.), the available wonders are mediocre at this point.
I'll move troops so we won't be attacking across any river. Probably 1W of Thebes so there to Memphis, then Heliopolis. Not giving him peace until we get those 3 cities.
He is 2 turns from Machinery, though.
The galley will go N to ferry troops across the strait.

Techwise we should be better after we get Thebes's Mids. Revolt to Rep ASAP, and to Bureau not much longer after that. We also should convert to Confu when we can.

On 2nd thoughts with all those civic changes we could burn the GE for a Golden Age after Thebes is captured.

If we get lucky we can build UoS and Spiral Minaret for the added benefit on religious buildings. Better yet, Ramesses could be build SM for us - he has Divine Right already. We should be able to get DRight in the peace treaty anyways.

Buildings: Confu missionaries where possible, wealth in developed cities, Granaries, CH's, Libs, Forges and Confu temples. I could whip a WB or galley on the East to examine the SE area.

Missed anything?

Sleepless · Dec 9, 2012

I agree with the war on Ram we want those 3 cities then take whetever he will give for peace. City defenders I'd rather he build x bows than Lbs so not overly concerned by him getting machinery.

We do want a second city on the island asap for the trade routes. Personally I would build it 1E of the clam and not the marked site.

More temples for Bibracte to get the prophet quicker would be a help plus we still have the missionary in Orleans which needs to be spread.

GP. I'd prefer to keep the GE for a corp. just a bit harder to get GE's than most other great people early on. Don't think it costs to much atm to have a turn or 2 of anarchy for civic swaps. Will probably able to do Rep/Bureau at the same time.

Couple of cities have 2 defenders which can be used further south to release the x bow defenders. Plus we check the owrkers as I think we have a few lazing round.

Tech after CS think we should go compass/optics. Need to plan some sort of tech path as well for future tech 1. Ideally we want med for Sids. Railway for Mining (I think) and 1 other??

adrianj · Dec 9, 2012

Great stuff Oz

The turn set roster order is...
Players
1) Ronnie1
2) Ozbenno Just Played
3) Conquistador63 Up Now
4) McArine On Deck
5) Sleepless

Team Advisors
6) adrianj
7) timmy827

Returning on 12/12/12?
8) Grifftavian

Sleepless · Dec 9, 2012

Ronnie1 said:
I would say Forbidden Palace further south than Bibracte.

I agree with crossing river before attacking Thebes.

FP if we keep Paris as the cap I would put the FP in Thebes or one of the cities we pehaps can't see.

def cross river for attacking. Via the hills and onto the forest seems obvious. Gives quick route to Memphis as well.

SGOTM 16 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Fly Fly Away

Fly Fly Away

Deity

King

Fly Fly Away

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Fly Fly Away

Deity

Fly Fly Away

King

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

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