SGOTM 16 - Plastic Ducks

[shakabrade]

AI in Judaism sends us primarily Buddhists... Why? Are those refugees? I'd like we were in Judaism since that is the religion which has most chance of autospreading, at least I have read that somewhere.

We, do have more islands NW, nice. So galley explores there, especially since there is barb city SW.

 

[Duckweed]

@Duckweed
Yea, I pondered about the 1 extra turn of cottage. But I figured 4C+3C (or up to +5C if we consider Printing Press) throughout all game was weaker than those extra turns of food+hammers+commerce.
In terms of worker micro, granary first seems to gain 1 worker turn overall due to possibility to make a road 1W of Tours vs. 1 turn of random cottage/farm.

If granary 1st gains 1 worker turn, then the advantage become quite clear.

AI in Judaism sends us primarily Buddhists... Why? Are those refugees? I'd like we were in Judaism since that is the religion which has most chance of autospreading, at least I have read that somewhere.

We, do have more islands NW, nice. So galley explores there, especially since there is barb city SW.

He was in Bud for some time. Moreover, religious zealot with multiple religions tends to spread all religions, for the preparation of FR and culture victory.

That new barbarian city seems to be a very good island city. Unfortunately we don't have efficient way to take it in the near future. Besides the NW islands, there are more land tile west of the 1 tile island west of Orleans. There's no problem of enough island cities.

 

[kossin]

If granary 1st gains 1 worker turn, then the advantage become quite clear.

To put it clearly, both options are able to complete the second fp cottage on t96 (both workers used up).

The difference comes when both workers are moving to the pig. 2 turns are lost there whereas 1 turn is lost when moving to pig from forests.

All in all, it means:

1 road+4~9C vs 1 turn of cottage improvement+2F+possibility of earlier growths/whips.

It's more or less the same, the only effect would be when going back west with workers.

Our 2 best shots at claiming barb cities for the moment are HBR+Archery and Construction... yea, nothing too fun here. IW will come in too late to be of use. Relying on stealing cities is a bad gamble. Alphabet becomes high-priority soon to help continue development -_-

 

[shakabrade]

Alphabet becomes high-priority soon to help continue development -_-

Interesting how we neglect stealing IW. Did we focus EPs?

 

[kossin]

Yes, EPs are focused on Brennus. We probably have enough EPs already, but it'll take a long time before we're able to steal it (5 turns to Mathematics, another ~7 to Alphabet, another 15 to get the spy in place or a lot of roads... ugh!)... and then it turns out we don't have Iron

I'll have to think this through.

 

[shakabrade]

Yes, EPs are focused on Brennus. We probably have enough EPs already, but it'll take a long time before we're able to steal it (5 turns to Mathematics, another ~7 to Alphabet, another 15 to get the spy in place or a lot of roads... ugh!)... and then it turns out we don't have Iron

I'll have to think this through.

I always thought we'll steal our IW from one of the gems barb cities once (IF) Brennus captured them. Spies are still quite an investment right now, but I just want to say our future plans should have stealing IW in mind since whole operation can span over couple of turnsets + couple of swordsmen could do fine job with those barb cities.

99% sure we have iron. Duckweed said something about SGOTM starts always having all resources for supporting various approaches, or it was a dream.

 

[Duckweed]

@kossin

I took a look at your screen shot and seems that chopping 1st is going to gain 2 worker turns. Schedule the time for both worker to enter the forests to finish chopping on T90. While Pig pasture 1st waste 2 worker turns on the way. Those commerce has chance of speedup a critical tech for 1 turn.

There's another way of taking barbarian city, culture revolt. It seems like the desert tile is such a site. We might want to prioritize another settler in Orleans.

Interesting how we neglect stealing IW. Did we focus EPs?

No, we never neglect this issue. It's a cheap mission, but takes some time to be able to produce spies and arrive his city. Although it's good to take that barbarian city, I'm unwilling to research Alpha ourselves. There are still a few potential island sites available.

 

[kossin]

Yes:
-2 turns going to pig directly
-4 turns pasture
-2 turns going to forests
-6 turns to chop
-1 turn going to fp (spend 1 turn 1S of Tours to do something)
---
15 + 1t of farm/cottage/road

vs.
-2 turns going to forests
-6 turns to chop
-1 turn going to pig (road 1W of Tours)
-4 turns to pasture pig
-2 turns going to fp (spend 1 turn finishing road 1W of Tours)
----
15 + road

So 1 turn of improvement vs 1 road.

 

[Duckweed]

Yes:
-2 turns going to pig directly
-4 turns pasture
-2 turns going to forests
-6 turns to chop
-1 turn going to fp (spend 1 turn 1S of Tours to do something)
---
15 + 1t of farm/cottage/road

vs.
-2 turns going to forests
-6 turns to chop
-1 turn going to pig (road 1W of Tours)

This should be 1 cottage turn on the riverside grassland

-4 turns to pasture pig
-2 turns going to fp (spend 1 turn finishing road 1W of Tours)
----
15 + road

So 1 turn of improvement vs 1 road.

So the conclusion is 1 road gained and the grassland cottage is better than the improvement 1S of Tours. The road also saves the worker turn when it comes back to cottage the grassland tile.

 

[kossin]

If you cottage the grassland and don't finish the road, the fp cottage is delayed 1 turn comparatively since the road is not finished.

 

[Duckweed]

workers are going to road it when they finish the pasture and on the way to FP, that's why I still said gaining 1 road. What I tried to say is that chopping 1st gain a road (2 worker turns) purely.

 

[kossin]

Works for me

I still have a few (2) days where I can test. I can provide some basic tests for the next 10 turns but it's likely that someone else has to pick up the save after that.

 

[Duckweed]

The main issue unclear for me is whether a settler or a worker next from Paris. Other than that, other things are quite clear to Math. I hope that you finish it rather than another one takes over. Shakabarde could go for a more complete session next, especially when there are more island tiles revealed.

 

[kossin]

Settler: 3 possibilities
1-island
2-clam site north of barb city
3-fish site east of Paris

2&3 would require more workers. We could scout the western islands within the next 3 turns to help decide.

 

[Duckweed]

Coastal city starts with 6C from beginning (without island city), basically it pays for itself when working on a water tile even without any improvement. Lay down a city for the choice of 3 and see how much cash we lose. My guess is that settler 1st might be better.

 

[kossin]

City #3 (east of Paris)while working fish means +1 gold at 0% slider if working 2F2C fish... otherwise -1 gold.
Adding a 7th city means -1 gold though (same as 5 cities).

 

[Duckweed]

That means we should remain in worker starving for a long time.

 

[kossin]

Updated test game. Beakers now match in-game progress.

 

[shakabrade]

I hate building workers. So our REXing plan is fine with me.

Thanks for the map, kossin.

I'd like you execute your turnset and ideas to the end so I get something new. Besides, who can know your plans better than you.


On other teams:

Kaku seems to experience barb trouble (great power rise). Calamities which losing starting warrior can bring. Probably barb city appeared on desired spot.

PR have oracled CoL. That'd explain their culture lead. My guess is they are going for Cuir rush. Also, they have made that typical bureau+something civic switch (culture stagnated).

Shawshank is an enigma for now. Seems like they are playing like us scorewise but they settled on T0 iIrc.

 

[kossin]

Paris: grow to size 6 using max food on warriors/library, start settler, whip 1 turn later.
Orleans: grow to 6, then assign 2 scientists and start a settler
Lyons: grow on Library, at size 4 I would consider whipping a worker
Rheims: to optimize granary whip, do it at 11F (1 turn of 4H tile). We need to produce a wb here to feed new cities. (2 going on east coast)
Tours: similar to Lyons.
Fish City E of Paris: wb+granary.

Chariot: I'm still a bit wary about barbs so I'd keep it in the area. Or bring back the warrior to fogbust then send the Chariot on its way.

Tech: Monotheism starts being interesting if Brennus keeps spamming us with missionaries. And then also Metal Casting... question is, are these more pressing than Currency/Literature.

EDIT: there's a river tile missing in Tours for the test game (1W tile should have a river on top of it).