Until Blub can get back, I will post some observations after looking at the save.
1. Florance is settled but has no worker attention. I would try and get at least 2 workers there to clear the pigs, and improve that and copper first. Then move on to Rice, and cottage up the rest.
2. I see that you finished Augsburg's Market and Mainz anyway. Augsburg's Market currently brings us 3,25 gpt, and we payed 150 hammers to have it. After giving back the mature cottages to Aachen, even with the growth of the 2 shared cottages, its gold output won't be more than 4 gpt (while running 100%), meaning at least 37 turns until it pays for itself. I still think that Augsburg is the best Globe spot, meaning it won't have happy issues, and will be used only for whipping with its 4(!) BFC food resources. The only city with similar(ish) food output is Mainz, which was considered as a GP farm before. In that case the Market here will be useful, althugh I would have built Forge first for the production bonus.
3. Vienna cottages are gettinga round very well, but I would prefer to have the riverside jungle cottage set up before the non-riverside ones.
4. Goldfoot's worker's next task is obviously a road 1 S of Goldfoot so we get our trade routes. Or do we need it? Why doN't we have any foreign trade? Not even with Mansa... I don't understand. Anyway, after it's done, I would ship this guy back to help around Florence.
5. To me it looks like we are a bit low on catapults. 5 is a bit few for 2 stacks. It's doable, but we should try to cut our losses as low as possible so we can keep up the warring and suffer minimal losses. Mansa will give us
6. In retrospect, Timbuktu's Rathaus will give us much more mones than the market (Market: 5.75, Rathaus: 8.69), so bulding Rat before Market would have been better, but no problem, we would have built both anyway. (I should have spotted thsi earlier)
7. (not really suggestion, rather observation) Our economy is fragile now, but we have 13 cites, soon 16(+2 at least), and they are all pretty strong and we have good land. If we don't screw up improvements, then we should be in a very good shape soon.
8. We just switched to OR, so we won't need a monastery for a long while to buiuld missionaries. We can reconsider this when switching out of OR comes up. The only exception here is Vienna and Timbu, the 10% science might be worth to build it in these two cities. But only a bit later when we have a chance to sitch on science. Until then, they have other things to build. (Rathaus in Timbu, Forge in both cities)
9. Archer will be needed for sure as MP, but a worker would be better first now in Aachen with all the jungles and things to do.
10. Instead of asking for just CS, we could ask for all of Mansa's gold AND CS. If he is chicken enough, he might give in, and we have essentially bought two techs (CS and the next taht we research with his 370 gold). Otherwise we can just attack.
Until Blub can get back, I will post some observations after looking at the save. I'm back, start tremble!
1. Florance is settled but has no worker attention. I would try and get at least 2 workers there to clear the pigs, and improve that and copper first. Then move on to Rice, and cottage up the rest. It's true.
Unfortunately, copper is outside our culture, at least until Vienna expands its borders (6 turns, but less with Palace). Our workers are faraway and the first thig to do is build roads on banana and another jungle tile S or SW ot it. Then we can start working seriously.
2. I see that you finished Augsburg's Market and Mainz anyway. Augsburg's Market currently brings us 3,25 gpt, and we payed 150 hammers to have it. After giving back the mature cottages to Aachen, even with the growth of the 2 shared cottages, its gold output won't be more than 4 gpt (while running 100%), meaning at least 37 turns until it pays for itself. I still think that Augsburg is the best Globe spot, meaning it won't have happy issues, and will be used only for whipping with its 4(!) BFC food resources. The only city with similar(ish) food output is Mainz, which was considered as a GP farm before. In that case the Market here will be useful, althugh I would have built Forge first for the production bonus. You're forgetting that i started the markets before we has MC. In any case, with food surplus and the economic situation i thought of them as a chance to run merchants for the gold bonus. In any case, when you objected i has already put too many hammers on them to delete them.
3. Vienna cottages are gettinga round very well, but I would prefer to have the riverside jungle cottage set up before the non-riverside ones. they were quickier and the workers were already in place
4. Goldfoot's worker's next task is obviously a road 1 S of Goldfoot so we get our trade routes. Or do we need it? Why doN't we have any foreign trade? Not even with Mansa... I don't understand. Anyway, after it's done, I would ship this guy back to help around Florence. Yes, we need it to be fully connected with Khmer and probably with China. But 1SE, inside our borders
5. To me it looks like we are a bit low on catapults. 5 is a bit few for 2 stacks. It's doable, but we should try to cut our losses as low as possible so we can keep up the warring and suffer minimal losses. Mansa will give us what?
To be accurate, the cats are 4. 1 (unpromoted) is dedicated to Niani along with the worse 4 Swords (1 for backup).
4 cats and 7 swords are enough to take that city on grassland, counting also on the chariot. 1 axe is enough to guard Timbu, considering we'll block the only road which can arrive there in 2 turns
6. In retrospect, Timbuktu's Rathaus will give us much more mones than the market (Market: 5.75, Rathaus: 8.69), so bulding Rat before Market would have been better, but no problem, we would have built both anyway. (I should have spotted thsi earlier) And i still prefere the market first. Once our troops move from there, we'll have happy problems. The market takes care of them, not the rathaus. But it's question of 2-3 turns, then whip again.
7. (not really suggestion, rather observation) Our economy is fragile now, but we have 13 cites, soon 16(+2 at least), and they are all pretty strong and we have good land. If we don't screw up improvements, then we should be in a very good shape soon. I hope so, but despite all those cottages - almost all already worked and even matured, we're in economic trouble.
8. We just switched to OR, so we won't need a monastery for a long while to buiuld missionaries. We can reconsider this when switching out of OR comes up. The only exception here is Vienna and Timbu, the 10% science might be worth to build it in these two cities. But only a bit later when we have a chance to sitch on science. Until then, they have other things to build. (Rathaus in Timbu, Forge in both cities) I've not proposed to build monasteries in every city, only in Vienna where it can multiply the Palace and the cottages output when we can restart to raise the slider.
9. Archer will be needed for sure as MP, but a worker would be better first now in Aachen with all the jungles and things to do. We desperately need both. We don't even have 1 archer per city, we're fogbusting with expensive axes and chariots. We must arrive quickly to 17 archers total preferably 20 and use the axes for what they can do best: smash heads.
10. Instead of asking for just CS, we could ask for all of Mansa's gold AND CS. If he is chicken enough, he might give in, and we have essentially bought two techs (CS and the next taht we research with his 370 gold). Otherwise we can just attack.
Since i'm still convinced that Mansa won't give up anything and that waiting 10 more turns of forced peace in case i'm wrong is less convenient for us mid-term, i prefer to avoid the risk. Thre's no way to try: if he gives up, it's done. Instead, i verified that he offers 240g for HBR, which it's not bad. With the conquest gold we have plenty of time to recover economically. And we gain 10 turns to take the barb city and to move some troops to be ferried to Goldfoot.
Revised and updated PPP until the end of my TS (6-8 turns)
First: Mansa has 3 workers and 1 settler, so i think it's not worth build more workers
Builds: Aachen: finish archer (4) - forge - LH Prague: finish archer (2) - finish library, whip 1 pop - worker Vienna: finish Palace (1) - forge - Colossus! (we can save the forest for that!) - finish Rathaus Nuremberg: forge Augsburg: finish WE (1, just whipped) regrow on library - forge Mainz: wait 2 turns, whip market for 1 pop - forge Ulm: expand borders in 5 turns, 3 resources are already roaded - Rathaus Bridge GLH hopehully in 20 turns Djenne: Rathaus, see when can whip Timbuktu:Rathaus, see when can whip Gao: galley, whip in 5-6 turns (we don't need it before then) - rathaus Goldfoot: (guess where it is) monument (2) - WB - granary with a switch so the WB is ready in 7 turns after the monument Florence: granary, see when can whip - library
No more units but archers when possible to arrive to 17.
There's only a worker which can arrive in a reasonable time to road bananas near Florence and it's busy chopping a forest for Vienna. I'll see what i can do. Resources first, right?
Please give me some input so i can play around lunch time tomorrow.
I like the idea of the Colossus. It will cost us 111.1 raw hammers while a courthouse would be 96 raw hammers.
15 hammers to get 1 more commerce from each water square is not so bad. We have seven fresh water squares and two coastal cities that have nothing else to work. I'm not certain I want it in Vienna. Can you get it faster in Aachen? We do not need that archer you have started.
Could we try to agree in which cities that should do commerce? Perhaps post a list of all cities and suggestions for each city. Perhaps we can all do this. I can even start.
Aachen: production, whiping
Prague: production, whiping
Vienna: commerce
Nuremberg: could go either way
Augsburg: production, whiping, drafting
Mainz: commerce
Ulm: GP farm
Bridge: bad commerce
Djenne: production
Timbuktu: commerce
Gao: whiping, commerce, hybrid with mature cottages and a lot of food.
Goldfoot: bad commerce
Florence: whiping for now. Could go either way here. A lot of food and low hammer potential. Perhaps a whiping commerce hybrid.
I would skip the Florence roads for some more turns. Getting the pig online is more important, and Florence is already has its trade routes via coast, so no economic benefit from building the road first. Since we are not planning to amass troops near Florence, the roads can wait until after the pig is hooked up so the city can start being useful sooner.
I agree with Folket that Vienna is not really a good place for Colossus, I would actually try to not work the desert hill and work a cottage so we can grow to max size and work all cottages ASAP. I would do the Colossus in Aachen. You convinced me that it's useful, copper really helps with the cost. Maybe you could build that archer in Vienna instead?
Mainz: a worker here would be nice before the forge.
Aachen: production, whipping Agree. Could be commerce if we want to.
Prague: production, whipping Agree
Vienna: commerce Agree
Nuremberg:could go either way I think it should go for commerce, it already has some cottages, and not a food heavy city, so not really good for whipping.
Augsburg: production, whiping, drafting Yes. This is defintiely a Globe city. Has some hammers and lots of food.
Mainz: commerce I would say it's better for GP farm than Ulm. Has more food, and is more mature, so it can build NE faster, and start on specialists RIGHT NOW
Ulm: GP farm I would just use this as a production city, helping Nurem with cottages when needed
Bridge: bad commerce
Djenne: production Yes, we need some worker attention here, too!
Timbuktu: commerce
Gao: whiping, commerce, hybrid with mature cottages and a lot of food. Commerce city, helps Timbu. After Timbu is big enough, it will be great for 6->4 or 5->3 whipping.
Goldfoot: bad commerce
Florence: whiping for now. Could go either way here. A lot of food and low hammer potential. Perhaps a whiping commerce hybrid. That kind of hybrid is not good, cottages need live citizens. I think it's too late to clear all the jungle, and we don't have the workers to do it anyway, so I would farm it up.
I would like to have a clear consensus on this before Blub starts playing. We need to grow the commerce cities to size 15-20 (we can do it now with HBR), so our cottages start growing en masse. The rest can get their farms, and whip some workers if we need them. The commerce cities should not be whipped unless it's a very strong building or urgent (eg. universities later)
When choosing commerce cities, the level of cottage maturity is an important factor. We are at t120 of the game, so for cottages to be useful they should be already built or built in the next 10-20 turns, and must be worked immediately.
Shaandore, I think we should have no problem having enough pop in both Goa and Florence. The whipping would just whip away pop working coast. like 10->8 whips in Florence every ten turns. With farms in Florence I have a hard time seeing us being able to whip all the pop away. But I can buy the argument that those cottages will be late since we need to clear the jungle.
I still prefer Ulm as a GP farm to Mainz. But let us just count the votes here and go on.
But we seem to agree on most things. So the four planed cities. I think it should be five cities.
crab/banana, whipping.
ivory, anything is fine with me.
top right corner, production/whipping
between Vienna and Mainz, whipping (keep pops that are needed to grow cottages. If we let Mainz be a commerce city this city will be great)
I would also like a city southwest of horse sea somewhere.
Yes, I agree that we should settle those cities that have food resource. (See post #759)
Unfortunately, our economy is still in a rough spot, so Blub is right that we need to wait a bit before spamming settlers for these spots. I think we should settle them one by one as soon as we feel like our economy is up to the challenge (We could start a couple settlers after the forge/rathaus whips are done). For now we need to improve our land and grow the commerce cities onto cottages, and for that we need some more workers.
Mostly i agree with the cities specialisation proposal, but we must wait before a definitive decision.
We must wait to see if the barb city A) opens a passage to NW (epic) or B) nothing.
in case A) we can more or less decide freely our cities assignments
in case B) we need to assign the easternmost cities to military production, due to the need to move troops to be ferried from Florence or Aachen to the South.
But this can mean only some adjustment to the plan.
About the Colossus, glad to see you agree with me. Aachen can do it well, thanks to the 2 forests just outside the BFC. I delete the archer and build some in Augsburg which is completing its barracks and start the forge in Aachen.
There's a worker i ovelooked already on the hill SE of Aachen, so i can start the road next turn. Why i insist with those roads? To not waste worker turns to arrive to the pigs crossing 2 jungles. But you're right we have not urgence to road to Florence, thus the banana can roaded first then improved, because the worker now chopping near Vienna can join.
Alright finished my duty for this round.
The save is uploaded to the server and i copied the ingame log on a txt posted here. Autolog
Spoiler:
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------ Turn 122/450 (1120 AD) [18-Apr-2013 12:26:33] 0% Research: 0 per turn 0% Espionage: 14 per turn 100% Gold: 1 per turn, 72 in the bank
After End Turn: Prague grows to size 5 Prague finishes: War Elephant Vienna finishes: Palace Augsburg finishes: Barracks Djenne finishes: Granary Timbuktu finishes: Market
Turn 123/450 (1130 AD) [18-Apr-2013 12:26:34] Augsburg begins: Archer (5 turns) Djenne begins: Rathaus (60 turns) Timbuktu begins: Rathaus (18 turns) Vienna begins: Forge (11 turns) Vienna begins: Confucian Monastery (6 turns) Tech traded to Mansa Musa (Mali): Horseback Riding A Plantation was built near Mainz Quartermaster (Holy Rome) declares war on Mansa Musa (Mali) 0% Research: 0 per turn 0% Espionage: 14 per turn 100% Gold: 1 per turn, 313 in the bank
After End Turn: Whip anger has decreased in Augsburg Vienna grows to size 10 A Village was built near Vienna Augsburg grows to size 8 Mainz grows to size 6 Gao grows to size 6 A Village was built near Timbuktu Goldfoot finishes: Monument
Other Player Actions: Attitude Change: Suryavarman II (Khmer) towards Qin Shi Huang (China), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Mansa Musa (Mali) towards Quartermaster (Holy Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Turn 124/450 (1140 AD) [18-Apr-2013 12:37:18] Goldfoot begins: Work Boat (8 turns) While attacking, Catapult 8 (Nuremberg) escapes from Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 17.0%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Niani, Catapult 8 (Nuremberg) loses to Malinese Skirmisher (3.36/4) (Prob Victory: 17.0%) While attacking, Swordsman 9 (Nuremberg) escapes from Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 44.7%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Niani, Swordsman 9 (Nuremberg) loses to Malinese Skirmisher (0.32/4) (Prob Victory: 44.7%) Swordsman 10 (Prague) promoted: City Raider I While attacking, Swordsman 10 (Prague) escapes from Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 58.6%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Niani, Swordsman 10 (Prague) loses to Malinese Skirmisher (0.36/4) (Prob Victory: 58.6%) Swordsman 7 (Aachen) promoted: City Raider I While attacking, Swordsman 7 (Aachen) decimates Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 100.0%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Niani, Swordsman 7 (Aachen) (6.00/6) defeats Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 100.0%) While attacking, Swordsman 13 (Ulm) decimates Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 100.0%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Niani, Swordsman 13 (Ulm) (5.04/6) defeats Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 100.0%) Confucianism has been removed: Niani (Malinese Empire) Confucianism has spread: Niani Captured Niani (Mansa Musa) Niani begins: Granary (61 turns) A Farm was built near Nuremberg 0% Research: 1 per turn 0% Espionage: 18 per turn 100% Gold: 6 per turn, 353 in the bank
After End Turn: Whip anger has decreased in Aachen Aachen grows to size 9 Prague finishes: Library Nuremberg's borders expand Augsburg grows to size 9
Other Player Actions: While defending in the wild at Niani, Swordsman 7 (Aachen) (4.20/6) defeats Malinese Catapult (Prob Victory: 88.4%) Civics Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) from 'Barbarism' to 'Bureaucracy'
Turn 125/450 (1150 AD) [18-Apr-2013 12:43:00] Prague begins: Archer (3 turns) While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Timbuktu, Axeman 5 (Prague) (5.00/5) defeats Malinese Worker (Prob Victory: 88.4%) A Cottage was built near Vienna A Mine was built near Djenne Prague begins: Horse Archer (5 turns) While attacking, Catapult 5 (Aachen) escapes from Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 18.7%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Kumbi Saleh, Catapult 5 (Aachen) loses to Malinese Skirmisher (2.72/4) (Prob Victory: 18.7%) While attacking, Catapult 4 (Prague) escapes from Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 36.8%) While attacking, Catapult 7 (Augsburg) decimates Malinese Axeman (Prob Victory: 49.0%) Swordsman 5 (Prague) promoted: City Raider II While attacking, Swordsman 5 (Prague) escapes from Malinese Axeman (Prob Victory: 87.0%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Kumbi Saleh, Swordsman 5 (Prague) loses to Malinese Axeman (0.35/5) (Prob Victory: 87.0%) While attacking, Swordsman 8 (Prague) decimates Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 94.3%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Kumbi Saleh, Swordsman 8 (Prague) (0.60/6) defeats Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 94.3%) While attacking, Swordsman 12 (Mainz) decimates Malinese Spearman (Prob Victory: 99.2%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Kumbi Saleh, Swordsman 12 (Mainz) (6.00/6) defeats Malinese Spearman (Prob Victory: 99.2%) While attacking, Swordsman 11 (Augsburg) decimates Malinese Axeman (Prob Victory: 99.9%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Kumbi Saleh, Swordsman 11 (Augsburg) (4.92/6) defeats Malinese Axeman (Prob Victory: 99.9%) While attacking, Swordsman 6 (Prague) decimates Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 100.0%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Kumbi Saleh, Swordsman 6 (Prague) (5.10/6) defeats Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 100.0%) Sargon (Great General) born in Vienna While attacking, George Patton (Chariot) decimates Malinese Axeman (Prob Victory: 100.0%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Kumbi Saleh, George Patton (4.00/4) defeats Malinese Axeman (Prob Victory: 100.0%) Confucianism has been removed: Kumbi Saleh (Malinese Empire) Confucianism has spread: Kumbi Saleh Captured Kumbi Saleh (Mansa Musa) Kumbi Saleh begins: Rathaus (121 turns) While attacking, Swordsman 4 (Prague) decimates Malinese Explorer (Prob Victory: 90.1%) While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Kumbi Saleh, Swordsman 4 (Prague) (4.08/6) defeats Malinese Explorer (Prob Victory: 90.1%) 0% Research: 1 per turn 0% Espionage: 18 per turn 100% Gold: 22 per turn, 541 in the bank
After End Turn: Whip anger has decreased in Nuremberg The whip was applied in Augsburg Nuremberg finishes: Forge Augsburg finishes: Archer A Hamlet was built near Nuremberg Buddhism has spread: Bridge
Other Player Actions: State Religion Change: Qin Shi Huang (China) from 'Hinduism' to 'Buddhism' Attitude Change: Suryavarman II (Khmer) towards Qin Shi Huang (China), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly' Attitude Change: Qin Shi Huang (China) towards Suryavarman II (Khmer), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Turn 126/450 (1160 AD) [18-Apr-2013 13:01:13] Nuremberg begins: Barracks (4 turns) Augsburg begins: Forge (15 turns) Catapult 4 (Prague) promoted: City Raider II Catapult 7 (Augsburg) promoted: City Raider I Swordsman 8 (Prague) promoted: City Raider II While attacking, Chariot 2 (Aachen) decimates Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 39.8%) While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Aachen, Chariot 2 (Aachen) (1.60/4) defeats Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 39.8%) 100% Research: 251 per turn 0% Espionage: 18 per turn 0% Gold: -189 per turn, 567 in the bank
After End Turn: Whip anger has decreased in Vienna Whip anger has decreased in Bridge Vienna's borders expand Augsburg grows to size 9 Mainz grows to size 7 Mainz finishes: Market Ulm's borders expand A Hamlet was built near Nuremberg Djenne grows to size 3 Timbuktu's borders expand Gao grows to size 7 A Town was built near Timbuktu
Other Player Actions: Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Organized Religion' to 'Theocracy'
Turn 127/450 (1170 AD) [18-Apr-2013 13:12:19] Mainz begins: Forge (10 turns) Swordsman 7 (Aachen) promoted: City Raider II 100% Research: 252 per turn 0% Espionage: 26 per turn 0% Gold: -190 per turn, 378 in the bank
After End Turn: The whip was applied in Gao A Town was built near Vienna Nuremberg grows to size 6 Nuremberg finishes: Barracks Timbuktu grows to size 8 Gao grows to size 6 Gao's borders expand Gao finishes: Galley Florence grows to size 2
Turn 128/450 (1180 AD) [18-Apr-2013 13:18:47] Nuremberg begins: Archer (3 turns) War Elephant 2 (Prague) promoted: Combat I Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Aesthetics 0% Research: 3 per turn 0% Espionage: 26 per turn 100% Gold: 20 per turn, 188 in the bank
After End Turn: Aachen grows to size 10 Prague finishes: Horse Archer Vienna finishes: Confucian Monastery Augsburg grows to size 10 A Village was built near Vienna
Turn 129/450 (1190 AD) [18-Apr-2013 13:22:08] Prague begins: Forge (15 turns) Horse Archer 1 (Prague) promoted: Combat I While attacking, Horse Archer 1 (Prague) decimates Malinese Explorer (Prob Victory: 90.1%) While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Horse Archer 1 (Prague) (2.16/6) defeats Malinese Explorer (Prob Victory: 90.1%) While attacking, Catapult 1 (Prague) escapes from Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 3.0%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Walata, Catapult 1 (Prague) loses to Malinese Skirmisher (3.44/4) (Prob Victory: 3.0%) While attacking, Catapult 4 (Prague) escapes from Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 33.9%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Walata, Catapult 4 (Prague) loses to Malinese Skirmisher (1.52/4) (Prob Victory: 33.9%) While attacking, Swordsman 11 (Augsburg) decimates Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 46.2%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Walata, Swordsman 11 (Augsburg) (3.60/6) defeats Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 46.2%) While attacking, War Elephant 2 (Prague) decimates Malinese Axeman (Prob Victory: 95.4%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Walata, War Elephant 2 (Prague) (6.72/8) defeats Malinese Axeman (Prob Victory: 95.4%) While attacking, Swordsman 4 (Prague) decimates Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 98.8%) While attacking in Malinese territory at Walata, Swordsman 4 (Prague) (3.84/6) defeats Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 98.8%) Confucianism has been removed: Walata (Malinese Empire) Confucianism has spread: Walata Captured Walata (Mansa Musa) Malinese Empire has been eliminated Walata begins: Rathaus (121 turns) 0% Research: 0 per turn 0% Espionage: 14 per turn 100% Gold: 0 per turn, 285 in the bank
After End Turn: The whip was applied in Aachen The whip was applied in Augsburg The whip was applied in Timbuktu The whip was applied in Gao Aachen finishes: Forge Prague grows to size 6 A Town was built near Vienna Nuremberg finishes: Archer Augsburg grows to size 9 Augsburg finishes: Forge Mainz grows to size 8 Djenne grows to size 4 Timbuktu grows to size 7 Timbuktu finishes: Rathaus Gao grows to size 4 Gao finishes: Rathaus
Turn 130/450 (1200 AD) [18-Apr-2013 13:32:45] Aachen begins: The Colossus (15 turns) Nuremberg begins: Archer (3 turns) Augsburg begins: Archer (3 turns) Timbuktu begins: Forge (18 turns) Gao begins: Forge (120 turns) War Elephant 2 (Prague) promoted: Combat II A Plantation was built near Florence Goldfoot begins: Granary (15 turns)
Highlights:
Mali is gone, but not before i could steal Aesthetics, the only tech at disposal.
Now our spy is moving to be ferried to Goldfoot.
The war was decently lucky:
- 1 cat and 2 sword lost to Niani, compensated by a cat suicided against one of the survivors and later by a chariot defeating a skirmisher near Aachen and a HA defeating an explorer
- 1 cat and 1 sword (87%) lost to Kumbi
- 2 cats lost to Walata
So we have only 1 cat ATM and GG waiting orders in Vienna.
I played 1 turn after the fall of Mali, to see the barb city: on a hill with walls and castle, obviously WrldBuilded. Better we land the axe loaded on the hill and fortify until reinforcements can arrive.
Most important, it seems surrounded by mountains and by water, so it's not the door to the west.
In any case, with banana, fish and a hill it's worth keep. And it' s not the Jew holy.
The road near Goldfoot brought us the connection with Khmer and China, much needed.
The chariot contines to explore, revealing almost all of Khmer and a decent part of China. I think the best thing is to continue move it W, to see if we can meet more AIs. For now. For later to see what we need to kill them.
The worker near Goldfoot has been moved to Florence area and already chopped a forest. I think we can workshop that tile.
Bad news on the tech front, both Sury and Qin has CS (same turn). I raised the slider for 2 turns thanks to the 240g for HBR from Mansa, to benefit of the discount to know 3 civs with that tech. Now it's back to 0, but we have +32 @0%, with a break even around 15%. The research potential is great, 264 bpt at present.
Someone shoud have hit music, because i've seen a GA born IAFL. Not Sury, we can see all his 7 cities.
A last note to say that the railroad on water benefits in some way the ships movements: the galley was 1S of Bridge and has a fraction of move once moved 2 to arrive to the peninsula.
Nothing more for now, the ball is to Pangaea.
edit: i updated page 1 and changed the turn numbers subtracting 50 turns, since in game now we can see the correct number of turns from the beginning but 50 subtracted to the final turn, which is 450 instead of 500. To note that the in-game log you have with the submission adds 50 turns.
Looking at it I do not think we will want to bombard the city, 50 catapult turns is a long time. The axemen will be of strengh 13.75 and the archer 10.5. Five elephants is probably what we want to make this attack. But adding a couple of more swordmen is a good idea.
Looking at it I do not think we will want to bombard the city, 50 catapult turns is a long time. The axemen will be of strengh 13.75 and the archer 10.5. Five elephants is probably what we want to make this attack. But adding a couple of more swordmen is a good idea.
I agree about catapults. But the city is defended by 1 axe and 1 archer. Chariots are a lot cheaper than any other unit, they can withdraw and they are the best counter to an axe. So i think that 1 WE for the first attack or maybe an HA to weaken the archer, then chariots, last melee, i think 1 axe (almost there) and 1 sword. Obvious, the GG must be there in case of multiple withdraws. A long thing anyway, unless we can build another galley.
I think we must research Compass after CS, to build a couple explorers.
Given that the axemen has +175% defence chariots do not look that good.
4.4 vs 8.75 or 10.5 = 0.5, 0.42
while elephants
8.8 vs 13.75, 10.5 = 0.64, 0.84
Given that the axemen has +175% defence chariots do not look that good.
4.4 vs 8.75 or 10.5 = 0.5, 0.42
while elephants
8.8 vs 13.75, 10.5 = 0.64, 0.84
We can try the best solution in WB. I did it and this is the autolog.
I made 2 simulations: one with the units we can see, another with a second archer they built while iwaited the 5 turns to have them fortified. I gave both the archer and the axe 3 XP. The city has barracks, walls, castle and 100 culture.
It seems that with 2 cats we can have the best output. They die, but the collateral is enough to let many of our units win.
Spoiler:
Turn 6/500 (3760 BC) [18-Apr-2013 21:45:52] While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot loses to Barbarian Archer (2.64/3) (Prob Victory: 0.0%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, War Elephant loses to Barbarian Axeman (1.80/5) (Prob Victory: 10.4%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Horse Archer (0.24/6) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 10.9%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot loses to Barbarian Archer (2.25/3) (Prob Victory: 0.7%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot loses to Barbarian Archer (1.83/3) (Prob Victory: 4.2%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot loses to Barbarian Archer (0.57/3) (Prob Victory: 11.2%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot (1.36/4) defeats Barbarian Axeman (Prob Victory: 90.9%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Swordsman (6.00/6) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%) Captured Harappan (Barbarian) Harappan begins: Scout (16 turns)
------------------------------------------------ Turn 6/500 (3760 BC) [18-Apr-2013 21:49:30] While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot loses to Barbarian Archer (2.61/3) (Prob Victory: 0.2%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot loses to Barbarian Archer (2.22/3) (Prob Victory: 1.0%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot loses to Barbarian Archer (0.96/3) (Prob Victory: 4.1%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot loses to Barbarian Axeman (5.00/5) (Prob Victory: 1.3%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Horse Archer loses to Barbarian Axeman (0.10/5) (Prob Victory: 0.9%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, War Elephant (8.00/8) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot (4.00/4) defeats Barbarian Axeman (Prob Victory: 100.0%) Captured Harappan (Barbarian) Harappan begins: Barracks (51 turns)
------------------------------------------------ Turn 6/500 (3760 BC) [18-Apr-2013 21:52:36] While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, War Elephant loses to Barbarian Axeman (3.40/5) (Prob Victory: 10.4%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Horse Archer loses to Barbarian Archer (1.56/3) (Prob Victory: 10.9%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot loses to Barbarian Axeman (1.15/5) (Prob Victory: 21.3%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot (2.24/4) defeats Barbarian Axeman (Prob Victory: 98.6%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Swordsman (6.00/6) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%) Captured Harappan (Barbarian) Harappan begins: Monument (31 turns)
------------------------------------------------ Turn 6/500 (3760 BC) [18-Apr-2013 21:55:26] While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Catapult loses to Barbarian Axeman (4.35/5) (Prob Victory: 2.3%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Horse Archer (0.48/6) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 39.5%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot loses to Barbarian Archer (1.50/3) (Prob Victory: 3.8%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, War Elephant (6.64/8) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 99.6%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot (4.00/4) defeats Barbarian Axeman (Prob Victory: 98.7%) Captured Harappan (Barbarian) Harappan begins: Scout (16 turns)
------------------------------------------------ Turn 6/500 (3760 BC) [18-Apr-2013 21:58:42] While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Catapult loses to Barbarian Axeman (3.70/5) (Prob Victory: 2.3%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Catapult loses to Barbarian Archer (1.29/3) (Prob Victory: 11.2%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot loses to Barbarian Axeman (0.20/5) (Prob Victory: 24.0%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, War Elephant (8.00/8) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 99.1%) While attacking in Barbarian territory at Harappan, Chariot (4.00/4) defeats Barbarian Axeman (Prob Victory: 100.0%) Captured Harappan (Barbarian) Harappan begins: Settler (101 turns)
Thus i think that 2 cats 2HA or 1 HA and a WE, 1 sword, 1 axe and 4 chariots are enough. And the GG, of course. This makes 6 trips, so we can add an archer for future MP. Not a short thing without a second galley.
While tests are nice, with so few random number rolls the best outcome can't really be determined this way. Even with rigourous calculations it's hard to tell that having two chariots with one surviving is better or worse than 1 WE suicide....
What could be calculated is the minimal hammer cost that needs to be payed for eg. 95% chance of succesful city taking. But even that calculation is tedious.
So to arrive at my point, we should just throw at them whatever we can, preferably any units that we won't feel bad about if they die or are costy to upgrade. We shoud keep our valuable units (CR 3 swords if we have some) safe and ready for next war.
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