SGOTM 17 - Xteam

[Htadus]

No comments from others?

Ok if we are going to settle on the tile NW of lake for our second city, here is the PPP to the point of settling second city. (I still think this is not the best city choice but I will play along )

Option 1

Spoiler :

T18: Warrior done. Worker complete road on NE tile. Warrior moves to forest 2NE of capital using the road. Capital will grow to size 4, unhappy and start a settler. Scout is checking South.
T19 Science to 0%.Move worker and warrior to forest to chop the settling tile. Scout heading to south.
T20: Whip settler . Worker started chopping.
T21: Settler heading to site. 1 more turn to finish chop. Capital start a Galley.
T22: Settle city 2.

Option 2:

Spoiler :

T18: Capital grow to size 4 and complete warrior. But he head NE and city become unhappy. Switch to settler. Worker takes a risk and run to the forest NW of lake.
T19 Science to 0%. Whip settler and worker start chopping and Warrior is 1 tile away.
T20: Settler heading to site. Worker chopping and protected by warrior. Capital start a Galley.
T21: Worker complete the road and the second city founded.

So which is the choice? Of course we can just settle the site without chopping on T21 too.

 

[The-Hawk]

I'm not going to have a chance to do any testing before I head south. I am still inclined to settle the banana hill site second as it is a powerful prod site. Also creates a road link to the gems site and I think getting gems quickly is critical to our economy. However, I never really tested other options, so I am OK with whatever everyone decides.

My gut tells me rushing to settle copper is not a good idea. Dry rice is a pretty useless tile and I don't see much else there to excite me. It will take a long time to connect and it will be a big drag on our economy. Again, some proper testing might refute that.

I am still inclined to go banana hill first then gem. By then we have IW. If no iron is found, then maybe we make a run at the copper site. Otherwise we settle wherever we find iron followed by the Phants.

 

[The-Hawk]

Wow, I am away for several days, then manage to exactly cross post with Htadus. What are the odds of that?

I'm not opposed to Phants next. It gives us a happy and still heads towards the gems.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Green light here.

 

[leif erikson]

I'm confused.

I thought we were going to try to build cities west to east and north to south because we wanted to gain city sites before Mansa could occupy them on us, gaining as much territory as possible.

I was thinking we were going to build the city Hawk mentioned, NW of the Banana on the Grass Hill, or if testing showed we could handle it, the Copper City, once the Archer checked to see if there were any more resources to the SE of the Copper?

Just a bit afraid that old Mansa will start settling to the east and eat up the nice spots.
Then we'll have to take them from him. :hammer;
But will we have any Iron?

 

[Htadus]

Wow, I am away for several days, then manage to exactly cross post with Htadus. What are the odds of that?

I'm not opposed to Phants next. It gives us a happy and still heads towards the gems.

Now that some crazy real life rng . I am all good with the copper city as third and ivory as first.

I'm confused.

I thought we were going to try to build cities west to east and north to south because we wanted to gain city sites before Mansa could occupy them on us, gaining as much territory as possible.

I was thinking we were going to build the city Hawk mentioned, NW of the Banana on the Grass Hill, or if testing showed we could handle it, the Copper City, once the Archer checked to see if there were any more resources to the SE of the Copper?

Just a bit afraid that old Mansa will start settling to the east and eat up the nice spots.
Then we'll have to take them from him. :hammer;
But will we have any Iron?

I did test settling that city. It would take until T26 to settle it and cost 4gpt.

I know he is going to settle a city in our way and it will not be further than 4 tiles from his capital. He will likely do it after us if we settle our first city by T 21. We need that Ivory and badly. We established a while ago that Ivory is better than the rice and hill banana city. Once we have the ivory city, we can send our second worker to build a road toward copper site. Our 3rd settler can get the copper and rice city. But first we need Alphabet.

At least CP is a go, Are you ok with this leif?

 

[Cactus Pete]

If we get iron, isn't there also the possibility of letting Mansa settle the copper city but stealing a worker as he tries to mine the copper, then eventually taking the city?

 

[leif erikson]

OK, green light. Let's see what happens.

 

[Undecided]

Ivory City first imo.

Copper is too far away imo. If we crash our eco, we loose the only advantage we have from having Mansa as a neighbor.

Ivory City brings commerce, happy, hammers and even has a couple forests to chop, the only real disadvantage is less blocking value, but Banana Hill should be safe to settle later. I noticed in a couple games i continued from test saves, that MM is settling 3 cities pretty quickly but slowing down afterwards, because of Wonders probably.

Settling Banana-Hill city as 4th city could have the added benefit of settling it in a way to share another banana with gem-city so it gets a bit more food with a border pop. The banana-mine could be worked immediately through the borderpop from the cap at T51 for a quick monument. This is a bit slower but should be considered given that we won't get calendar or CS that quickly and till then the city is stuck with dry rice but has alot of green hills waiting to be worked.

So, Green Light from me if we go ivory first. (I still have hope that the plains tile next to the lake has iron, too )

 

[Mad Professor]

Just checking in to let you know I 'm still alive (in case you wondered...)

I apologize for dropping off the face of the earth like that and leaving you wondering - it was not under my control.

I'll be quiet for a while. I might be back later, but no promises. Don't put me down for any turn sets or otherwise depend on me until further notice. If it comes down to deciding whether I'm in or out, I'm out, but if it's possible to keep options open, I'm in. Does that make sense? Good luck!

 

[leif erikson]

Very, very glad to see you check in and hear that you are well.

I was checking the web to see if anything bad happened over there.

Yes, we will keep our options open until things get better for you.

Very nice to see you.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Good to hear from you, MP. Was speculating that either you or your computer might have been badly damaged.

 

[Htadus]

Thank you for contacting MP and wish you smooth roads ahead and we will keep a light burning.

I played out to the top of T21 as planned on option 1. Settler is ready to go and claim bunch of Ivory and the worker will have that city tile all nicely deforested. However, Mansa settled his second city, area around the copper is awesome and the scout found some thing interesting to south. I am not sure what it means except kcd may have left a bread crumb trail for us to follow. I placed a settler as a space holder in the capital.

Spoiler :

I still think we should get that Ivory city founded but I am curious as to where the Rail road is heading and where Mansa settled. I will do a full anallysis of the screenshots we generated tomorrow.

How far should I play? I can pass it now or play a while longer if no one is available.

 

[leif erikson]

Looking good.

I played out to the top of T21 as planned on option 1. Settler is ready to go and claim bunch of Ivory and the worker will have that city tile all nicely deforested. However, Mansa settled his second city, area around the copper is awesome and the scout found some thing interesting to south. I am not sure what it means except kcd may have left a bread crumb trail for us to follow. I placed a settler as a space holder in the capital.

You scared me, I thought Mansa had settled beside the copper, but thankfully, not.

Think we need to mine the Grass Hill north of the Pigs in the Capital. Probably build another Warrior while the pop grows, too long to build an Archer.

Would like to see if there are any other resources with Archer moving 2 SW? Kind of like a Copper City where the jungle is SE of the Copper?

I still think we should get that Ivory city founded but I am curious as to where the Rail road is heading and where Mansa settled. I will do a full anallysis of the screenshots we generated tomorrow.

Yeah, interesting ancient railway? Rails even go through the water tiles to the east? Never seen that before, hope it doesn't go to the Iron.

That southern area looks good to gain some commerce, once we have IW. Looks like a nice City site 1-tile east of the Fur, unless something else pops up to the west.

How far should I play? I can pass it now or play a while longer if no one is available.

First player usually plays about 30 turns, so if you can, that would be fine.

 

[Htadus]

Ivory City first imo.

Copper is too far away imo. If we crash our eco, we loose the only advantage we have from having Mansa as a neighbor. I agree that it is a financial risk but once we have alpha we can compensate for low slider by building science to get to currency. Also we need to run a few scientists too.

Ivory City brings commerce, happy, hammers and even has a couple forests to chop, the only real disadvantage is less blocking value, but Banana Hill should be safe to settle later. I noticed in a couple games i continued from test saves, that MM is settling 3 cities pretty quickly but slowing down afterwards, because of Wonders probably. This was my observation about Mansa's settling cities.

Settling Banana-Hill city as 4th city could have the added benefit of settling it in a way to share another banana with gem-city so it gets a bit more food with a border pop. The banana-mine could be worked immediately through the borderpop from the cap at T51 for a quick monument. This is a bit slower but should be considered given that we won't get calendar or CS that quickly and till then the city is stuck with dry rice but has alot of green hills waiting to be worked. Are you suggesting that we settle Banana hill 2N of rice? What are your intentions? IN of rice would be able to work rice to grow faster while a worker is building the farm.

So, Green Light from me if we go ivory first. (I still have hope that the plains tile next to the lake has iron, too )

Now that would be cool. Maybe the evil map maker is not as evil as he claims.

Looking good.

You scared me, I thought Mansa had settled beside the copper, but thankfully, not. Well I am not sure where he may be. That is why I wanted to send archer back

Think we need to mine the Grass Hill north of the Pigs in the Capital. Probably build another Warrior while the pop grows, too long to build an Archer.Actually, the ivory city will borrow the banana farm and grow to size 2 while building a warrior. Then when the overflow from a whip is at least 15h and 10g, I will whip it. The overflow will go to a granary and the warrior will head north. After the worker build a road and a camp on the at-risk ivory (Jungle spread during tests), he will head to the capital to build a mine.

Would like to see if there are any other resources with Archer moving 2 SW? Kind of like a Copper City where the jungle is SE of the Copper?

Yeah, interesting ancient railway? Rails even go through the water tiles to the east? Never seen that before, hope it doesn't go to the Iron. Yeah but the game did not let me go on to the coast railroad and if it is on a Iron tile that would be great. +1 hammer.

That southern area looks good to gain some commerce, once we have IW. Looks like a nice City site 1-tile east of the Fur, unless something else pops up to the west. Yup that is what I am thinking and hope that plains forest had iron on it.

First player usually plays about 30 turns, so if you can, that would be fine.

If I am going to 30 lets make it until Alpha. T32/33. Ok?

I am going to look at the screen shot Voodoo and see if I can guess more about the AI out there. I will also put up PPP for up to T33.

 

[Htadus]

Ok here goes nothing.

Based on this post by leif, http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12270493&postcount=170 there is 1 Creative AI in the game that expanded boundary at the end of turn3. He is located in a corner of the map. We know he/she is not on NE corner.

There is either 1 Charismatic AI or someone who settle on one of the early happy resources.

There is also either 1 Expansive AI or someone who settled on a health resource. Also someone was forced to settle a city site that has given it plenty of unhealthy (FP) tiles.

Looking at the Demo screens I have;
There is an AI who remained at population value of 1000 for a longest time. I am guessing someone has been given a very unhealthy city and the AI decided to go for a settler from the get go.

Mansa:
Built a Skeirmisher on T8 and Built the city on T19.

Ok I got to go and will be back in about 6 hrs.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Htadus, were you able to ride the rails overland -- that is, could you move on them at a rate of 10 tiles per turn? Suspect we would be wise to try to figure out why they're there.

City site on the peninsula certainly looks good, but should be no competition there for a long time. If it remains available, would give priority to the jungle tile between the grassland cows and copper.

Encourage planning to include another worker soon.

Playing through Alpha makes sense.

 

[The-Hawk]

Good to hear from MP, I was getting nervous.

Something tells me Mansa is going to grab the copper site. Not sure there is much we can do about it, just hope he doesn't settle a stupid spot.

The southern island may well support two cities, especially if there is some seafood off to the west. It is starting to look like GLH might be a good option on this map.

 

[Htadus]

Sorry guys, we did not come home until real late from my dad's.

CP, I did not get to find out if the number of movements available is 10 once the scout went across the river, the movements ended since we do not have construction. But I use railroads for 10 tile movements when I set up test maps to move my units to appropriate locations and then I delete the RR. It is possible , this is a left over from a similar action by kcd. Second worker is a priority. For a moment I was thinking that I build the second settle for the copper site. Basically let the over flow and chop go to the settler and then switch to a galley next turn. Let city grow to size 4 and whip settler.

Hawk I am concerned about Mansa is going to claim that copper city and that was the reason I was thinking about the second settler. The idea is to let the city 3 grow to size 2 building a warrior and then whip to get 15H and some gold and let the overflow go to a worker. 15 hammers is more than you can build while building a worker using the 3 food cow during the same time frame.

I will make 2 PPP and see what we all want to do.

 

[Htadus]

BTW in the test(both) Mansa had settled the copper and I moved him.

Settler 2 Option.

Spoiler :

T21: Settler to N21E. Start another settler.
T22: Finish chop into settler. Found second city and working farm and building warrior. Set science to 100%.
T23: Capital switch to galley and working Lake. Worker start road to connect cities. Warrior heading back.
T24: Cities are connected and Warrior back to MP capital. OB with Mansa to get cities connected. Alpha due date drop from 12 to 10.
T25: Worker starting Camp on non-forested ivory. Capital size 3.
T26: Barb Warrior to E of capital. It should not enter culture yet since I doubt there are 21 cities in the game.
T27: Capital at size 4 and switch to settler and whip. Working lake.
T28: Settler heading to copper. Whip second city.
T29: New warrior head east to encounter barb warrior.
T30: Archer and Settler hook up.
T31: Worker start a common farm for cap and ivory. While defending in forest warrior kill barb warrior.
T32: Switch ivory to warrior.
T34: Founded copper city and science drop to 50%. Whip ivory.
T35: Alpha in. Set science to 0% and Currency. New warrior go out fog busting. Galley is heading out to check the world. Specially the southeast. Start worker2
T36: Whip worker
END TEST

Worker 2 Option.

Spoiler :

T21: Start worker
T22: Finish chop into worker. Found second city and working farm and building warrior. Set science to 100%.
T23: Whip worker2 Worker start road to connect cities. Warrior heading back.
T24: Start Galley. Cities are connected and Warrior back to MP capital. OB with Mansa to get cities connected. Alpha due date drop from 12 to 10. Worker 1 building camp.
T25: Worker to heading to FPH to mine.
T26: Start FPH mine.
T27: Capital working lake.
T28: Whip second city.
T29: New warrior head NE to spawn bust.
T30: Whip Galley.
T31: Start settler 2. Worker1 start a common farm for cap and ivory.
T32: Switch ivory to warrior.
T33: Whip settler 2.
T34: Settler heading to Copper city. Whip ivory.
T35: New warrior go out fog busting Horse site. Galley is near the SE land mass.
T36: Alpha in. Set science to 0% and Currency.
End Test

We were paying 2 gpt unit cost and 1 gpt supply on T36.

For what it is worth I like second worker first.