SGOTM 18 - BadCiv

[johns5]

I don't think Construction & Monarchy are super important. With Gold & Palace that city can grow up to size 6 before happiness problems and we'll be whipping major portions of the population away anyway? As for construction I don't see much immediate use for it either (unless we got a nearby neighbor with walls we need to seige?) so maybe wait until everyone else gets it and the research cost gets a discount. I haven't done the full math on it though

Alphabet might be good to grab right after Aesthetics cause Aesthetics is valuable for trade and we'd pick up a bunch of the early stuff we skipped

 

[boak]

You can usually trade aesthetics for alphabet, sometimes you gotta put 1 or 2 turns into it first though. At least that's what I typically do.

Wheel > mine > bw > aesthetics is fine with me. Though depending on how soon our first settler will be done we can maybe skip the wheel and do it after bw.

also play as many turns as you think is best. I don't think anyone is going to get upset over number of turns played by anyone as long as everything is communicated.

 

[fizzy]

I'm thinking Mining>BW first to chop out a settler or something, then probably wheel, writing>aesthetics and put a bit into alpha hoping to trade for it with an AI. Mansa most likely.

and yeah freeform number of turns works for me. play until next guy in line really wants it or you get tired of taking turns.

 

[Sodavich]

that screenshot confuses me... surely the first thing we're building isnt the great wall?

e: i guess i can see how a worker wouldn't be all that helpful with the wheat farm already going, and we already have a warrior, and we want to size up. so it makes more sense now. i guess we just want the super spy points?

 

[Tall German Joe]

that screenshot confuses me... surely the first thing we're building isnt the great wall?

e: i guess i can see how a worker wouldn't be all that helpful with the wheat farm already going, and we already have a warrior, and we want to size up. so it makes more sense now. i guess we just want the super spy points?

yeah... welcome to the thread lol...

 

[Tall German Joe]

ok, to 3320 BC:

i continue moving the warrior NW, and we find some pigs! a capital that grabbed both of these woulda been great, oh well. our capital as it is still the strongest to get the great wall asap.

we moved the scout NE (RIP swinger's pad), and find a passage through the mountains. also, portugal.

and here's another passage. looks like we're boxed in by mountains.

gandhi founds buddhism, wherever he is.

first tech up is Mining. next is bronze working, so our worker can chop out something (a settler?)

hmmm, willing to negotiate eh?

or maybe not... also notice he has 3 cities

uh, I guess all the world will be buddhist. maybe dr. evil will become buddhist since he made peace with goldmember the first turn, and perhaps has a trade route with him???

nice stone spot here:

decent clam/stone site; gives us access to a wonder doubler for pretty much every wonder until the modern era.

thirsty cows:

and bam, right on schedule:

I decided to go with the micro that finished it in 16 turns, still hit size 4, and worked the gold mine as much as possible. we finished the wonder and grew to size 4 this turn.

next person who's up (boak), you can get the save from here:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php

what should we build next? my vote is for a worker next (can finish in 5 turns), and then we try to chop/whip out a settler or another worker. i can run the numbers on this tomorrow or something...

 

[Tall German Joe]

here's our comparison to the other teams that have submitted a save:

looks like kakumeika went down in score, so i guess that means their city is still at size 1. i guess they're going worker or settler first, and I guess working the gold mine. perhaps some kind of tech beeline strategy? phoenix rising is the same... anyways we're in first place for now, it'll be the last time it ever happens so savour it lol...

 

[johns5]

I think another worker makes sense, we're already working 2 unmodified tiles & are quickly going to grow to the point of working a 3rd which according to Sulla Sensai is a big no-no

I dig that mountain set-up, how about plopping a city right at the pass? It can claim to pigs that our capital just missed out and be a chokepoint that lets us focus all our military in a single direction. shaka + police state means constant assaults of outdated but numerous units

 

[boak]

here's our comparison to the other teams that have submitted a save:

looks like kakumeika went down in score, so i guess that means their city is still at size 1. i guess they're going worker or settler first, and I guess working the gold mine. perhaps some kind of tech beeline strategy? phoenix rising is the same... anyways we're in first place for now, it'll be the last time it ever happens so savour it lol...

aww yeah doggy. badciv for life.

 

[Drachenreiter]

I'd like to see what's near the floodplains to the SE as that should be the first or second city IMO.

We've got diverging paths towards the same goal:
First worker - whip or let it finish naturally (We have enough happiness that even a 1pop whip should be fine)
Second worker - chop, whip, or finish naturally (Shouldn't let both finish naturally )

If we're chopping the second, one of the flat grassland tiles would be better IMO. Once the floodplain is farmed we'll have an odd food number, then mining the grassland hill. Should only need one chop for the second worker. Worker one could then move to the other flat grassland to start chopping for the settler while second moves to the river(+1 ) plains hill to mine.
Worker one could then move to the grassland hill to mine. Was going to say road but there's not a huge reason to road west without Construction because of the shape of the river. Worker two could either farm the floodplain or move southeast to scout a little.

I haven't done any solid math on this, but I think whipping the first, one chop for the second, then chop + possible whip for the settler would be ideal. Could slot in a warrior until the unhappiness wears off.

As for the tech path, if we're serious about the Shwedagon Paya(we'll need Meditation, too!) then Aesthetics ASAP is probably our best bet. Mansa will probably have Alphabet soon so we could use it as trading fodder once we're roughly half done building it, looking for Iron Working and...? Four hundred fifty with double production because of having Gold and double from Industrious means we should be able to have it in less than 10 turns. Statue of Zeus might be useful but mainly versus Dr. Evil and his unshaggadilic attitude and for denial. Parthenon is obviously helpful.

Sorry for the mess.

 

[Sodavich]

here's our comparison to the other teams that have submitted a save:

looks like kakumeika went down in score, so i guess that means their city is still at size 1. i guess they're going worker or settler first, and I guess working the gold mine. perhaps some kind of tech beeline strategy? phoenix rising is the same... anyways we're in first place for now, it'll be the last time it ever happens so savour it lol...

seems to suggest shawshank settled on turn 2, eh? or were they just below the minimum on the y-axis?

 

[Tall German Joe]

hs: I honestly have no idea; 150 point score is for the save at turn 0, which was a lvl 2 city + the mids. so they coulda settled on turn 1 and then uploaded the save on turn 2. the graph i think only has points for turns where you saved.

drach: I think that's a good plan. now that I think about it, there's too much work for just 1 worker to do; we'll need to chope, build cottages, build roads, build mines, plus set up the second city. also, in order to settle at the chokepoint, we'll want our capital's culture to extend over the pigs, which will take another 17 turns, so there's no need to rush the settler TOO much. (although I'd prefer to get that city second, as I wouldn't want portugal to block that spot.)

you're right in that working unimproved tiles is NOT efficient; however, in this case we can just whip them away! what I suggest we do is to build the first worker to 59/60, then switch into slavery and whip; then whip the second immediately. then chop out the settler.

as far as tech goes, i'm also strongly leaning towards aesthetics. I think we should still sideline to the wheel, and perhaps AH as well for the pigs... although we could always just farm over them for now. i'm really hoping we have bronze, because otherwise we might need to get archery. remember that we're still at war, with several pissed AIs bribeable once alpha is in, and no easy bargaining chip available for peace...

 

[johns5]

if BW pops bronze in the mountains NE of Washington then i'd say road to get it hooked up immediately, but I can only see two immediate use for roads:

-building a path from Washington to chokepoint city. because of the river crossings that would chance the # of turns it takes to move from one city to the other from 5 to 4.

-hooking up clam & stones site-- the nearest stone wonder that hasn't already been taken is Hanging Gardens, which is a fair deal off our current tech plan... not to mention building roads & quarries on desert tiles will take longer and tie up our worker on an otherwise pretty crummy city

 

[boak]

Aesthetics > couple of turns in Alphabet then trading for Iron Working would be the best bet. I can't really think of anything else that will benefit us. like Drach said roading over the rivers won't really do much for us without construction, or AH for the pigs. If BW reveals copper within Washington's borders, or we decide to settle first in the flood plains we should probably pick up the wheel but otherwise I think we can grab Aesthetics first.

Scouting east with the warrior seems like an obvious next step. Fembot can try and find the other civs in the Northwest. Are barbs enabled? I cant remember... either way I don't think there's anything scary that fembot won't be able to out run.

Getting worker to 59/60 > double whip for 2nd worker > chop settler sounds like the best idea to me, the wheat and flood plain will grow us back up to 4 in no time so we'll likely only have to spend 1 turn not working the gold.

What is our strategy for the science slider? how much gold do we really need to keep in the treasury?

 

[Sodavich]

I guess we're not concerned about military? or will we want to build a 2nd warrior before the settler?

 

[Tall German Joe]

johns :

well, imo there's a few motivations for roads beyond those you listed. first, if we do plant a city at the choke, then we'll need to connect it to the river via at least one road to get the trade route, and furthermore connect it to lisbon to get the fat $$$$taxxx foreign trade route. secondly, we'll want roads all over the place anyways; might as well start putting them down now if we can. having a road in place before the settler pops could cut as many as 3 (!!) turns off our second city's founding date. finally, having early roads could help us settle more aggressively towards portugal, if that's something we're interested in doing.

that's not to say that there's arguments in favor of skipping it too though; you're right in that we can settle e.g. a floodplains city as our second city, which would be connected to our capital via river. we could also settle adjacent to the river in the west, which would also connect via river but would lose the choke. i guess the choke only matters if we dont want to press into portugal... what are everyone's thoughts on this? i'm inclined to avoid pissing joao off and hopefully even using him as a buffer until we're ready to crack some skullz...

boak : barbs are not enabled; instead there's goldmember, who presumably doesn't give a "toot" about the great wall. we can only single whip the worker if its 59/60, but the overflow will go into the next worker, and then we can whip again after 1 turn.

hs : well, a warrior won't do anything against a war elephant, and docevil has no idea where our new capital is right now. we'll hopefully be able to get some spears and axes soon though...

 

[Sodavich]

johns :
hs : well, a warrior won't do anything against a war elephant, and docevil has no idea where our new capital is right now. we'll hopefully be able to get some spears and axes soon though...

yeah but barbs/animals while settling... i know we're safe within borders, but outside of that?

NEVERMIND NO BARBS

 

[Sodavich]

what am i even doing in this thread if i'm just going to tl;dr everything

 

[kcd_swede]

yeah but barbs/animals while settling... i know we're safe within borders, but outside of that?

NEVERMIND NO BARBS

Is it safe?

 

[Drachenreiter]

If we want to settle towards Joao we'll have to focus almost entirely on settlers/workers/military police, especially since Joao is one of the fastest - if not top - expanders in the game. Iron Working would definitely be a priority to cut down the swaths of jungle, mostly to find the groovy native woman, yeah baby!

New Flood Central should definitely be the third city if the Mountain Blade Block is chosen as second. NFC's maintenance would be minimal and its return on investment would be paid back quickly.