SGOTM 18 - BadCiv

[Tall German Joe]

any chance you can set it up within the next few days?

 

[Drachenreiter]

I'm going to take the save. Goals are to explore more, probably closer to Joao, as well as to the east near Mysterious Mountain Railroad. I'm hoping to slot in AH and Wheel... assuming I have it that long.

 

[Drachenreiter]

Precursor to the Admins/Mods/Game Host: Please be gentle.

Things We Done Did: Discovered AH and Wheel. Found Horses! Built two mines, a farm, and a pasture.

Things We Gonna Need To Do: Find Mansa and Gandhi. Explore the Southern Hill Pass. Expand!

I played 10 turns from 2800BC to 2400BC. I figured it was a good stopping point and we could review. Could also get some PARTICIPATION.

Below are my notes, which I try to make detailed without being excessive.

Turn 30: Lost my notes because online notepads hate me. Main thing was swapping from floodplain to Gold as it was no production loss but +7 beakers, which at this point is significant.

Turn 31: Writing finishes, Mansa and Gandhi will sign borders. Khan will not. :\ I sign borders with Mansa and Gandhi(who has a Scout jogging through our lands). They're both very peaceful and we need the diplo points(eventually). We can shut them again in 10t. I swap Washington to Granary. 34 overflow from completed Settler leaves 41, 66% of the granary, which will finish in 4t. Growth in 8t with Wheat/Gold. Settler will reach Blocking City in 2t. Scout moves south to find that the railroad moves along the entire eastern border. Please don't leave units on huge movement patterns, by the way. Because of this revelation, I'm having the warrior move back towards Washington.

Worker1 is working on a GLH river mine(the same one he chopped clean) and Worker2 finished the plains river mine. Worker1 will finish in time to pick up the Pigs and get some bacon flowing. Worker2 is going to farm the floodplains.
AH is at 6t, Wheel at 4t, and Aesthetics at 22t(!). I think we're safe to detour towards AH and/or Wheel for now. I choose AH because of the fair amount of overflow beakers.

Turn 32: Worker1 has 2t on the GLH mine. Worker2 heads to the floodplain to farm, 7t. Ouch. We still have one full value forest to chop at Washington(which could also be used on the new city...)
Settler is in place to found the city next turn. What wonders will Boston, New York, or Philadelphia hold for us(forgot the first name)?

Turn 33: Settler founds... Groove York. I don't remember that being in the game. We're losing 2pt. I start the happenin' citizens on a granary, but after that I think it's straight to barracks, military, and settlers/workers.

Two turns on Washington's granary.

Turn 34: One turn on Washington's granary. Going to switch it to growth whilst slow building a warrior or barracks. Whip anger is there for another 6t. They told me it was a liberated city - liars.

Worker1 finishes the GLH mine which I switch Groove York to work. This puts it at 19t growth/15t granary. Washington doesn't need the mine right now and Groove York can start growing after the Pigs are porkchops. I'm moving him to the forested hill to the west to mine, which will be a turn behind AH finishing. Should've had him start a cottage between Washington/Groove York instead. Blah. Sorry.

Turn 35: Granary finishes! Yay. Only 2h overflow, which I'm going to put into a library. With no barbs and a chokepoint, I'm not too worried about an early war.

Worker1 is going to put two turns into a cottage. Wasted a turn. :\ Worker2 has 4t on the floodplain.

Scout and warrior are moving west through our lands. Warrior and scout will keep moving out to scout. We can build military police warriors later. Washington still isn't suffering from protection woes.

Turn 36: Great Merchant born in a distant land. Goldmember has both the GLH and Colossus while Mansa has Artemis. Considering how early Mr. Leif Erickson is, it's probably Goldmember. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll be settled?

Stop worker1 to have him ready for the pasture next turn. Cottage has 2t remaining. Worker2 is still toiling away on the farm, 3t remaining.

We're at 0.5 of Mansa. Nothing else to report.

Turn 37: Neigh, baby, neigh! Grassland river horses right next to Groove York - shagtastic! AH finished, obviously. I only see one other sources of horses - up way north near Genghis. I'd prefer not to have Keshiks at our throats.

Worker1 starts on making us some sausage, 4t to go. Afterwards he'll be throwing up another pasture on the horses?
Worker2 down to 2t on the farm. You can do it, little guy.

Due to overflow: 18t on Aesthetics WITH Gold, 25t without. 3t on Wheel WITH Gold, 4t without. Alphabet is 18t WITH Gold, 25t without, by the way. However, if we don't use the Gold this turn and opt for the floodplain, we have growth next turn instead of in two. The overflow from AH is enough that I'm fine with losing the turn on Wheel and picking up the Gold next turn. After Wheel, I don't see any reason to not head for Aesthetics.

Turn 38: Washington grows to size 3. Growth in another 3t - thank you granary.

Worker1 has 3t on pasture. Worker2 finishes the farm. Finally.

Genghis' scout is snooping through our lands. He must've come through the Eastern Railroad Pass... We'll need to think about what to do with it. If the AI was, well, better, we'd need to remove it and set up a fort or two. As it is, I think just a fort at either end and some border guards would serve.

We can see Mansa's research. He's about to finish AH.

Turn 39: Genghis founded Turfan. No idea where it is.

Mansa has a Jewish missionary right near us. This could be helpful if he spreads to Groove York... but with Mansa still the Jew, swapping to it will have to wait.

1t on Wheel. Worker1 has 2t on the pasture. Worker2 is in the capital, as he couldn't move to anything else to be useful.

Washington is now upset about a lack of MP. I'm opting to leave the warrior there for now.

Turn 40: Wheel finishes. The missionary is heading to Groove York! Free culture, baby.

Bacon! Swap Groove York to the pasture. 3t to growth, 35t to granary. We'll have enough to whip it as soon as the growth happens. Worker1 is going to head to the Horsies next.

Washington is growing next turn. Library is at 8t(7t once we swap to settler). I think having worker2 chop the remaining forest at Washington as well as whip the settler would be solid. Any ideas?


Additional notes: Worker2 STILL HAS MOVEMENT. Whoever is next(including me), make sure to utilize him!


Washington:

Groove York:

Aerial:

The Save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=BadCiv_SG018_BC2400_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Drachenreiter]

Er, that broke the tables. Any suggestions?

 

[Sodavich]

Works on my machine. Glad to know I still managed to be inefficient on my turns & leave a mess for you.

 

[Drachenreiter]

I paused for a moment to shed a single tear for the desert Pigs tile to our far west... why can't industrialists see the damage they're causing?

 

[Tall German Joe]

nice turns drach!! looks like things are going very well !!

my thoughts:

1.) horses = AWESOME !!!!! hopefully we have iron too, which gives us the possiblity of doing a pocket cuir rush on either GK or joao if nothing interesting develops in the mid game.

2.) the great merchant was probably born to mansa musa; the temple of artemis gives him a free priest specialist, so with the wonder's points, he got 5 GPP / turn. interestingly, instead of popping him on turn 40, he popped him on turn 36; this means that he probably built a temple (since he had meditation) and worked another priest specialist for some reason. from what I remember of the wonders screen, goldmember doesn't have both the great lighthouse and the colossus in the same city, so it's gonna be awhile before he gets his great people.

2.) its really really great that mansa founded judiaism. now him and gandhi will hate each other, and we don't have to worry about a world-wide love block developing because goldemember (which no civ can develop trade routes, as far as I understand) founded hinduism. it's even better that mansa popped a great merchant instead of a great priest so he can't that that early shrine!

3.) i notice that there's a coast tile 1 NE of goldmember's borders. if we settle 1E of the copper, then we can send a galley over to invade him to capture the great lighthouse or colossus! this would mean settling in your spot marked "Groovier?" instead of the "Groovy!" spot.

4.) i also agree that another settler is #1 on our "todo" list once washington hits size 4 again. i'm actually thinking two settlers would be good... the faster we can develop the better. maybe double-whip the second one. any thoughts on this?

5.) i'd like to explore GK's land a little bit more. there's a corn spot above our capital that would be really great to have, although possibly really hard to defend if GK decides that he wants it. exploring up there a little more would be very useful in appraising this spot. similarly, the river-wheat spot near joao looks really good too...

 

[Drachenreiter]

Fembot is in perfect position to explore towards Genghis. She can head 2NE or head towards the plains forest hill 1NW of the Furs.

Stone City should go on top of the Stone itself, IMO. I have the western tag(forgot the 'actual' name) there because it could share the three grassland river tiles with Groove York, but considering that Groove is going to be far more important, I'd rather let it have full control. Additionally, quarrying a desert Stone is like 6 turns, which is a tad long.

Tinny Tuna needs to be on the Groovier? tag if we want to do a sea invasion on the weird jutting coast tile. I kind of want to hold off on a solid decision until we can get some eyes on the mountain pass/coast to the southwest. There might be a possible route over there.

We have two major decisions now: Next tech and next city. Research is set to Aethsetics but isn't locked in and we still have the (minimal) overflow. Next city is either going to be Tinny Tuna or out into the jungle. We don't have Iron Working which ruins the appeal, but we can't let Joao have all the land. The grassland directly north of Groove York doesn't have any resources, unfortunately, and the Corn/Fur north of Washington would be a logistic nightmare. Unless I counted wrong, it'd be 11~ turns between Washington and the Corn/Fur city without Construction for bridges.

 

[Tall German Joe]

hmmm. if we want to settle towards joao, one good spot would be 3W of the horses. it would have quite a few good tiles in the second ring... it would be more difficult to defend, but much easier than the corn/fur spot. we'd have to send fembot down to scout that location, however, instead of towards genghis.

i can take my turns tomorrow, by the way, so it'd be great to get the ball rolling again and decide on a plan now.

 

[Drachenreiter]

3W of the Chess Pieces? Hadn't considered that. It'd certainly be solid, even with the three dead tiles and sharing three tiles(production that this city would need) with Groove York. Would have +8 food from the banana steaks on wheat. Definitely has merit.

If/when we get to that triple Cow cluster, I'd want to settle on the desert cow since I can't imagine the tile being worthwhile to work. That's a whiles away, though.

Another thing we need to think about is Genghis. If we keep him around we can bribe him against Dr. Evil(eventually/hopefully). If we take over Joao's lands we could pinch Genghis in to what looks like 6-7 cities.

 

[Tall German Joe]

well, the thing is about that triple cow cluster is that joao will likely settle it himself (if he hasn't already) before we even get there. the 3W of the horses site might be taken already as well; we'll have to move the fembot to make sure.

i can play turns tonight; do you think I should, drach, if nobody else responds?

 

[Drachenreiter]

Oh I'm sure he's settled it, just saying. Go ahead and play IMO.

 

[Tall German Joe]

turn 40-41 ok, first off we let warshington grow a turn:

after this, the plan is to put 1 turn into a settler at maximal production, then let it grow 2 turns on wheat/farmedfloodplains/cottage/gold (so that it'll instantly regrow after the whip), then work the settler for 3 more turns on maximal production, then 1 turn at slightly less production so we can get a maximal overflow on the whip.

lets see it play out:

turn 42:

turn 44:

turn 47: (this is where we switch production before the double-whip; I could work the forest for maximum overflow but I decide the cottage despite 1 less overflow is probably better)

turn 48: ( screenshot cause my screenshots sometimes will miss the overlay unless i hover research with this mod, but it sez food 24/24 and production 128/100)

and the settler is sitting pretty unmoved on our capital on turn 49, 2040 B.C.

IN OTHER NEWS:

on turn 43 I gifted Joao pigs:

Joao seems to have settled the cow/banana; we can still grab the wheat if we want, although it's a much weaker spot now:

I microed the overflow for Groove York's Granary whip in a very special way ;]

mansa musa trolled us by converting both of our cities to judiasm. tough luck for us unless he spams out missionaries to other civs as well. also, i started a road out of our borders.

we find what I think is Dr. Evil's lair !!!!!!!!!!

goldmember's cities are HUGE. whatever one that is below us would be a JUICY target...

and that's it. mansa is 3 turns from alphabet, while we're 6 turns from aesthetics. 28 overflow is ready in our capital, and our worker adjacent to the capital has not moved.

my personal inclination is to settle "Groovier?" and "invasion spot!" as our next two spots, and try to scout goldmember's city for possible invasion... if we're really lucky, BOTH cities will be down there and we can really score some sweet Stuff. thoughts...?

Hipster Scumbag is up next, unless fizzy can play turns now.
Boak, its not quite 2000BC yet, but I think you should be OK to join in the discussions again now if you want...

 

[fizzy]

Sorry, still won't be able to in a timely manner :[

Really hoping Mansa doesn't go too heavy on jew missionary spam. If we're forced to go Jewish for diplomatic reasons our espionage with him is gonna miss out on that sweet differing state religion modifier.

 

[Tall German Joe]

what about you, john s? can you play?

 

[johns5]

yeah, I'll be free late friday, i'll try to get started before the end of the day. probably gonna break it up into pieces and come back to this thread frequently cause I'm pretty rusty

 

[Drachenreiter]

I'm heavily in favour of settling Groovier? over Groovy!

1) Will have two hills to work for more production(otherwise the whip would have to be cracking non stop)
2) Reclaims a desert tile on top of only having 3(instead of 4)
3) Leaves room for Invasion Spot if we want/need it

Main disadvantage is that it's not on the river, but we'll only need to road one tile before it's connected, and we have a fair amount of health resources available so far.

Build order IMO would be Granary(work mined Copper) -> Culture? -> Fishing Boat(scout SE first then net the Fish) -> Galleys, probably. Scouting the western waters could also be done, either by the first boat or the second.
I don't see a need to settle Invasion Spot too quickly... we can wait a few turns to see how the water layout looks.


How long should we hold Aesthetics until we trade it away? Main pickups (from trading Aesthetics) would be Alphabet, Iron Working, and Sailing, IMO. Alphabet for the usual reasons, Iron Working so we can knock out the jungle in the west, and Sailing so we can get some galleys going from Tinny Tuna.

Paya could probably be chopped into Groove York, especially if we want to keep a clean GPP pool in Washington. One chop is 20, but would become 40 because of Industrious and having Gold. Could probably do 1-2 chops before trading Aesthetics, as by that point we should be locked into having it.

 

[Tall German Joe]

john stuffman: friday night would be great!

drach:

i second Groovier? over Groovy!

to me, however, the biggest problem with the spot is that we don't have a way to expand its borders at the moment except via a library, at least until Alphabet comes in. so that means no fish and no copper until then. we could settle invasion spot first, but we won't be able to connect it to our trade route until sailing comes in PLUS another road tile, so it is not very appealing to settle first. in my opinion, we should first settle Groovier?, connect it to trade route via the road tile, and then start farming those floodplains while building a granary. hopefully by the time that's finished we'll have mysticism via tech trade for a monument (or, even better, a free missionary from Mansa Musa!)

as for how long to hang on to aesthetics - I dont think we need to hang on to it very long at all. as soon as we can trade for alphabet (either with aesthetics + something else or from putting a few turns into it ourselves) we should trade it. since we're industrious AND have the doubling resources for both wonders that we want, we'll have no troubles whatsoever building the wonders we want.

after alphabet, the next three techs that I think we want are a.) mathematics for forest chops b.) literature for TGL, and c.) construction for invading goldmember (speculative - we'll have to scout first)

 

[Drachenreiter]

Wasn't thinking about Mathematics. Considering Aesthetics is 300 and Mathetmatics is 250, could hopefully get a 1:1 trade from one of the AI. Construction is 350 so we might need to toss something else in or put a few turns into it. For Literature we're going to need to pick up Polytheism.

 

[johns5]

Ok, so my initial goal should be settling Groovier and getting a granary and some farms up?
Once Aesthetics finishes I'll see what our trade opportunities are and check back here before committing to anything...