SGOTM 19 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

McArine · Mar 7, 2014

Buffylog:

Spoiler :

BSPollux · Mar 7, 2014

Looking good so far. Asoka war seems to work excellent, just the right timing!

Well we said we didnt want to bulb anything but education, so the GS should wait somewhere save and chill a while.

You didnt say where Amsterdam was founded but I guess its in the south? Position 'a' on the hill?

What was/is Alexanders stack like? Would be intresting to know what we'd have to expect in case of war.

Amsterdam has Christianity allready?

nocho · Mar 7, 2014

Mmm, there's a stray Asoka chariot 1S of Constantinople. We might have to emergency whip an archer. Even if reasonable odds, we maybe shouldn't gamble on winning archer vs chariot. Asoka won't be cleaned until next turn.

Get courthouse before market in Const please.

For aesth+110 we can get Calendar. I guess we should take it. We seem to have gotten enough conquest cash to finance it.

Since we have some financial buffer now, I'd quickly build the CHs in Sugar and Nut House too, then back to wealth.

I'd keep the GS on hold for now and probably next set after we got some of the CHs launch a GA and pop some great people.

BSPollux · Mar 7, 2014

nocho said:
Mmm, there's a stray Asoka chariot 1S of Constantinople. We might have to emergency whip an archer. Even if reasonable odds, we maybe shouldn't gamble on winning archer vs chariot. Asoka won't be cleaned until next turn.

How did that happen?
Sure, whip additional def!

Hmmmm I wonder why none of us thought about building just a few more units?

haphazard1 · Mar 7, 2014

BSPollux said:
How did that happen?
Sure, whip additional def!

Hmmmm I wonder why none of us thought about building just a few more units?

Some of us were thinking a few more units could be useful. An extra archer or two, even.

More seriously, this is the kind of thing that happens when there is a lot of open space and the AIs have units wandering around exploring. Maybe this was a fog buster from the south that Asoka is now sending to attack us?

In any case, deal with it we must. So do what we have to do to get a unit -- definitely do not risk a city on a single die roll. We didn't take that risk with Sheat earlier, and we certainly should not do it for a far more developed, more valuable city.

Otherwise, the set so far is sounding pretty good, McArine! :goodjob:

Especially beating Alex to Trebizond. This is why we need to finish Asoka and Toku fast -- we don't want an AI poaching those locations and screwing up our expansion plans.

I also worry about AI stacks conquering some of the barb cities we have our eyes on for the future. We can not leave those cities too long, or we will have AI cities in our back yard.

I will second Pollux in asking what Alex' stack looks like? Once Asoka is dead he will no longer be at war, and then he might start getting foolish ideas....

Sleepless · Mar 7, 2014

Looks very good so far McArine...

My few thoughts..

I would 2 pop whip a spear in Constantinople this turn. That will take care of the chariot.

We do need defences in Amsterdam or Spicy Fragrance or something smelly along that line with the incense. Will be a viable target for Nap or Alex.. Ditto Askum

Trade I like the idea of giving Aesth + 110 gold for calendar. Same turn either gift Alex Hbr or Aesth and hopefully we can trade calendar + Aesth or Hbr for MC with Alex if he is willing next turn.

Resource trades.. Stop rice for 2 gold with KK and see if we can get his hopefully 5 gold this turn.

Alex stack. He has a sword/2 axe/2 x cats and 3 chariots 3 South of Nicomedia. We want to keep some units around there and see if he becomes wheeoh when we finish off Asoka.

Otherwise looking very good McArine :goodjob:

to carry on though I don't think we should have taken EP off KK. We def could have stolen something from him down the line. But that's just my view..

So good luck for the rest of the turnset and don't feel that you have to wait to whip courthouses. I'd be more than happy to 3 pop whip them.

Edit.. Just a small thing but I would work the copper in Addis and horse in askum rather than grass forests. Oh and give the other dye in Askums BFC back to Askum as its not being worked in Lalibela.

Last edit.. The GG guess we should settle in Sugar or NH whatever one we decide to be the HE. regardless both should build it to within one turn anyway imho.

Last last edit..

We are now up to 16 workers. Might be an idea to try and build us trade routes to Alex and HC using a couple of them. Also save GS for a Golden Age sounds best to me as well.

haphazard1 · Mar 7, 2014

Sleepless said:
We do need defences in Amsterdam or Spicy Fragrance or something smelly along that line with the incense. Will be a viable target for Nap or Alex.. Ditto Askum

Would love to get Feudalism so we can build a few longbows ourselves. But agree that we need some defenders of some kind in the new city ASAP. Spicy Fragrance works for me as a name, but since McArine is the active player he can name it whatever he wants.

Sleepless said:
Trade I like the idea of giving Aesth + 110 gold for calendar. Same turn either gift Alex Hbr or Aesth and hopefully we can trade calendar + Aesth or Hbr for MC with Alex if he is willing next turn.

This sounds good to me as well. We need Calendar for some more happiness, and MC would be very nice to have as well. Not sure Alex will trade, need to check his "known percentage" in the XML.

Sleepless said:
Resource trades.. Stop rice for 2 gold with KK and see if we can get his hopefully 5 gold this turn.

We can try this, but might lose the deal completely. But I agree we should try to bump up the cash we get. 2 gpt was good for an early deal but we should be able to get more now.

Sleepless said:
Alex stack. He has a sword/2 axe/2 x cats and 3 chariots 3 South of Nicomedia. We want to keep some units around there and see if he becomes wheeoh when we finish off Asoka.

OK, 8 units is not too terribly dangerous. It's not good, but it could be far worse. Definitely need to keep an eye on where this stack goes, and what Alex does once Asoka is dead.

Sleepless said:
Otherwise looking very good McArine to carry on though I don't think we should have taken EP off KK. We def could have stolen something from him down the line. But that's just my view..

Our EP has been just the basic 4 per turn from our palace until now. With some courthouses coming online we will be able to do a bit more, although of course the AI has had CoL for a while. I like the switch to HC -- being able to see the demos of the AI leader will be helpful.

Sleepless said:
Last edit.. The GG guess we should settle in Sugar or NH whatever one we decide to be the HE. regardless both should build it to within one turn anyway imho.

Note that we already have one GG settled in Sugar^2 from earlier. I think the HE is better here, with as many GG as we can add for XP. Two GG is enough for 3 promo mounted units if we build a stables. Picture some 3-promo knights or cuirs rolling steadily out of our HE city...I am sure we could find some kind of use for that. :evil:

Looking good, McArine.

Sleepless · Mar 7, 2014

One other thing to remember assuming we do the calendar deal we get an immediate +2 happy from dye and sugar. Plus we need to improve the other sugar and silk in SS and NH. Also once we pop borders Amsterdam can improve the spice and I assume we will have plantations on the incense by then as well giving us a +5 boost to happies..

Ronnie1 · Mar 7, 2014

Looking good McA!

Alex's stack,

Spoiler :

Constantinople,
We probably should whip another unit, sleepless said Spear, I like Archer. Archer is cheaper, and therefore gives more overflow to the CH build. We don't need to kill the Chariot, we just need another unit there. Make sure we don't leave any workers within range by accident. But I bet the chariot continues to move towards "home". He had to have already passed by at least one of our cities. Lack of units on our part is not the issue. Poor placement maybe, poor border protection maybe, but not a lack of units.

I agree we need to stack our western border cities with units.

I'm not worried in the short run AI attacking the barb cities in our rear. They will send too few units do any actual damage to 3+ barb LB's.

I think you are good to finish McA!

Ronnie1 · Mar 7, 2014

I like the switch to HC -- being able to see the demos of the AI leader will be helpful.

I do to, I don't care about his demos though, but would love to be able to see his research.

Sleepless · Mar 8, 2014

Ronnie1 said:
I do to, I don't care about his demos though, but would love to be able to see his research.

Think I'm in the minority here...

Edit. I would probably keep the units near Nicomedia for the moment. Though the GG should go and heal our other units.

nocho · Mar 8, 2014

Sleepless said:
Trade I like the idea of giving Aesth + 110 gold for calendar. Same turn either gift Alex Hbr or Aesth and hopefully we can trade calendar + Aesth or Hbr for MC with Alex if he is willing next turn.

Good idea about Alex, with Calendar we indeed have an extra bargaining chip.

So indeed do the trade for Calendar with Nap this turn and also gift HBR or Aesthetics to Alex. Maybe Aesthetics, as that would have us literature, HBR and calendar on offer for MC next turn. Also Aesthetics is a bit more expensive, so might give just an extra diplo point. Shared war alone doesn't seem to be enough to get Alex to cautious, so we do need some fair trade bonus. Now this is hoping that cautious will be enough for him to trade anyway... If he indeed does want to trade MC, do that before killing off Asoka. I'm not sure if the shared war bonus might disappear instantly upon Asoka dying. Maybe not, but better not try.

haphazard1 · Mar 8, 2014

nocho said:
Good idea about Alex, with Calendar we indeed have an extra bargaining chip. So indeed do the trade for Calendar with Nap this turn and also gift HBR or Aesthetics to Alex. Maybe Aesthetics, as that would have us literature, HBR and calendar on offer for MC next turn. Also Aesthetics is a bit more expensive, so might give just an extra diplo point. Shared war alone doesn't seem to be enough to get Alex to cautious, so we do need some fair trade bonus. Now this is hoping that cautious will be enough for him to trade anyway... If he indeed does want to trade MC, do that before killing off Asoka. I'm not sure if the shared war bonus might disappear instantly upon Asoka dying. Maybe not, but better not try.

It seems from my experience that you keep at least +1 mutual military struggle even after the shared war ends, but greater +diplo from that factor fades.

If Alex does not want to trade MC with Asoka alive, killing Asoka might get him over the "percentage known" threshold since I do not believe Asoka has MC. So definitely recheck with Alex after Asoka is dead, if he will not trade before that.

nocho · Mar 8, 2014

Aksum indeed work horse and the other dye which is in Lalibella right now.

In AA, maybe work bronze to get that CH much sooner. After CH refocus on growth. We need farms here on the eastern grass.

Don't want to sound all too insistent, but really want CHs now too in NH and SS, and in Const after the archer whip (or spear, no strong opinion), first the CH, then the market.

In fact, now that we have the GS, I would not be against dropping the 2 scientists for some turns to either grow much harder or get that CH much earlier. Probably the former. If we want to launch a GA with caste+pac we would like to hire as many specs as possible then. With the 3 food resources we have 19 food total, so a good target population would be 10; 3 working food and 7 specs for minimal shrinkage (1 fpt). In other words, we should get to size 10 asap.

That's more important imo than working specs now (as now we don't get pac nor GA bonus) while we'll already lose 2 pop for the whip. Happy problems will disappear soon with Asoka dead and Calendar in hand.

EDIT: Before moving everything up north, leave a couple of units in Amsterdam (rename it indeed

). A spear and a WE for example. Just to have some buffer later against surprise DoWs. After killing off Toku leave most units in AA and Aksum, maybe some units in Const for happy, although that might not be very urgent anymore after calendar.

And I think you need a settler to resettle remaing Toku-land. We said 1S of sheep to get both wheat and iron, right? Maybe Clam Bake can build that settler. It has prechopped forest available to speed that up.

Sleepless · Mar 8, 2014

Seems like your good to carry on McArine..

I do agree with Nocho re-assign specs in Con. I would actually work the 2 cottages though. Saying that we will gain the other 2 pop as well this turn so plenty of nice tiles to work/grow.

Also re-assigning citizens gets us down to -3 gold per turn.. Yay nearly break even :lol:

Once we have the next courthouses we will be back in plus ground..

Archer or spear? Both a 2 pop whip. Ooops that's the other 2 pop gone isn't it..

A spear on the front lines makes a better defender though I'm certainly easy either way.

lastly I wouldn't attack Toku in your turnset leave it for Nocho but set up a few units for that. Nice little worker to the East of Askum waiting to be taken once war breaks out again as well.

haphazard1 · Mar 8, 2014

nocho said:
In fact, now that we have the GS, I would not be against dropping the 2 scientists for some turns to either grow much harder or get that CH much earlier. Probably the former. If we want to launch a GA with caste+pac we would like to hire as many specs as possible then. With the 3 food resources we have 19 food total, so a good target population would be 10; 3 working food and 7 specs for minimal shrinkage (1 fpt). In other words, we should get to size 10 asap. That's more important imo than working specs now (as now we don't get pac nor GA bonus) while we'll already lose 2 pop for the whip. Happy problems will disappear soon with Asoka dead and Calendar in hand.

Which city are you referring to here, nocho? :confused:

Constantinople? Nut House? Other?

I think I agree, in any case. We hope to have the golden age soon-ish, so we can do some GPP tricks and end up in Bureaucracy (plus Free Religion, maybe?) at the end. So timing will be dependent on getting CS, but hopefully that will be fairly soon. Pushing growth hard for a while to get ready and make the most out of the golden age seems like it will help us overall, even if we lose a little bit in the short term.

nocho said:
And I think you need a settler to resettle remaing Toku-land. We said 1S of sheep to get both wheat and iron, right? Maybe Clam Bake can build that settler. It has prechopped forest available to speed that up.

If we do not have a settler ready for this then we definitely need one ASAP. We do not want an AI poaching that location, or a barb city spawning there. Some fog busting after Toku is gone can prevent the second, but speedy settling is our only real defense against an AI taking the site.

And Clam Bake would be a good source for the settler, either chop or whip (or both as needed).

Sleepless · Mar 8, 2014

haphazard1 said:
Which city are you referring to here, nocho? Constantinople? Nut House? Other?I assume Constan. At least it has other good tiles to work.

I think I agree, in any case. We hope to have the golden age soon-ish, so we can do some GPP tricks and end up in Bureaucracy (plus Free Religion, maybe?) at the end. So timing will be dependent on getting CS, but hopefully that will be fairly soon. Pushing growth hard for a while to get ready and make the most out of the golden age seems like it will help us overall, even if we lose a little bit in the short term.

If we do not have a settler ready for this then we definitely need one ASAP. We do not want an AI poaching that location, or a barb city spawning there. Some fog busting after Toku is gone can prevent the second, but speedy settling is our only real defense against an AI taking the site.

And Clam Bake would be a good source for the settler, either chop or whip (or both as needed).

Still no real hurry to take out Toku. Nocho's turnset will be enough to set that up/kill him off as long as McArine gets the units in place.

BSPollux · Mar 8, 2014

Sleepless said:
Still no real hurry to take out Toku. Nocho's turnset will be enough to set that up/kill him off as long as McArine gets the units in place.

If you want to re-assign the deals with KK then the DOW with Toku should come afterwards. KK was the one liking Toku, right?

nocho · Mar 8, 2014

Yes, I was referring to Constantinople to temporarily drop the scientists in order to grow large asap.

Assuming McA's set takes another 5 or 6 turns, then I think he has ample time to eliminate Toku. Is there a reason to postpone it? All the units near Iconium should be more than enough. For Adulis we have some spare units in AA too. But also fine to do this the first 2 turns of my set. If McA thinks it fits into his, I'm fine he takes the honours.

Sleepless · Mar 8, 2014

nocho said:
Assuming McA's set takes another 5 or 6 turns, then I think he has ample time to eliminate Toku. Is there a reason to postpone it? All the units near Iconium should be more than enough. For Adulis we have some spare units in AA too. But also fine to do this the first 2 turns of my set. If McA thinks it fits into his, I'm fine he takes the honours.

Well the workers we capture from Asoka I guess could road towards Toku's cap. Just need to make sure we have a settler ready and yep no problems if we take Toku out sooner as long as we have the units in place.

SGOTM 19 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

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Dancing Bear

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Dancing Bear

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Dancing Bear

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