SteelHorse
Deity
Am I missing something, why do we need 100 more votes?
SGOTM 20 - Unusual SuspeX
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Am I missing something, why do we need 100 more votes?
What Folket is saying is that we can count on Vic and Church and Julius abstaining, and for being on the safe side, count double their pop as votes. Plus Lou's votes (popx2). We need 3x that total (including our vassals). I'm not sure on the numbers of how many votes will be for/against in 12t, but we should estimate. I think its possible without more war, and we have some spreading to do so war might make that more difficult. We should figure out what is fastest. Also, we cannot ouselves go over 75% or the AP vote won't come up.
Also, now Folket's earlier question becomes relevant: is it possible to manipulate the political situatuon/member situation so that there are no possible resolutions until we are ready for the victory vote? It would be nice-- if it takes 13t to accomplish objectives-- to have the vote in 13t rather than in 22t.
Also, now Folket's earlier question becomes relevant: is it possible to manipulate the political situatuon/member situation so that there are no possible resolutions until we are ready for the victory vote? It would be nice-- if it takes 13t to accomplish objectives-- to have the vote in 13t rather than in 22t.
Do we want to capitulate Peter or do we want to take some cities from him first?
Yamps
Deity
Sorry for not being able to contribute more at this stage...I think civ will have to stay a summer sport for me.
I haven't checked the save, but I'd guess it's better to capitulate Peter and to move against Louis like Folket said to reduce his voting power.
I haven't checked the save, but I'd guess it's better to capitulate Peter and to move against Louis like Folket said to reduce his voting power.
some cities that we might want to gift to a vassal, such as christian hc, can only be gifted to peter. so wiping him out doesn't do much useful. but taking him down to his last city on the isle before cap could be ok. can take his capitol with minimal losses in 1-2t iirc.
SteelHorse
Deity
Here is the current vote screen:
There are currently 578 votes out there. We have 396 votes from our own pop which is 68% - well below - and we can always liberate cities to our vassals (though we lose temple locations then).
Assuming nothing else happens - adding Nappy 22 (if we spread to Rheims and he is in Hindu) and Churchill (7 if we spread to Nottingham and he is not in Hindu). That makes the total 607 and we would need 455 for victory.
We currently have 420, adding 22 from Nappy and 14 from Peter cap we have 456. And spreading to Yaroslav alone gives 20 more votes though it raises votes pool by same amount still a net gain towards victory. And we have more Hindu-less cities as well.
Yes we will lose some pop with temple whips, but if we start now they will grow back. Other than missionaries and temples, is there anything else we need? We can also reduce the size of the pool by razing Louis's cities if necessary,
Other thoughts:
* We could gift Paulopolis to Louis if we want. Saves us spreading a second religion, but eliminates a city for temples.
* Not sure if Nappy will be religion-less next turn since he has no Hindu cities. Should we liberate Paris? Ditto on temples.
Spoiler :
There are currently 578 votes out there. We have 396 votes from our own pop which is 68% - well below - and we can always liberate cities to our vassals (though we lose temple locations then).
Assuming nothing else happens - adding Nappy 22 (if we spread to Rheims and he is in Hindu) and Churchill (7 if we spread to Nottingham and he is not in Hindu). That makes the total 607 and we would need 455 for victory.
We currently have 420, adding 22 from Nappy and 14 from Peter cap we have 456. And spreading to Yaroslav alone gives 20 more votes though it raises votes pool by same amount still a net gain towards victory. And we have more Hindu-less cities as well.
Yes we will lose some pop with temple whips, but if we start now they will grow back. Other than missionaries and temples, is there anything else we need? We can also reduce the size of the pool by razing Louis's cities if necessary,
Other thoughts:
* We could gift Paulopolis to Louis if we want. Saves us spreading a second religion, but eliminates a city for temples.
* Not sure if Nappy will be religion-less next turn since he has no Hindu cities. Should we liberate Paris? Ditto on temples.
SteelHorse
Deity
Did you try to gift Paulopolous to Louis? It shows up on the trade screen.
Each city we keep will need to come out of revolt, get 2 religions, and build 2 temples. Low pop cities will come out of revolt quicker, but will have less pop for temple whips.
Paris should be fairly easy to get a 2nd religion... so there is no real hurry to liberate it. In about 7-8 turns we can make that decision with precision. Recall it has pop for temple whips plus it will come out of revolt in time to do so.
Paulopolis is good to gift, but wait please. If AI have a HC they will invariably convert to the HC religion. And we want their votes doubbled, I think.
I am glad someone with AP XP is up... that is you SH. So if you have plans for cities and good reasons for your choices, you'll have lots of leeway.
I'll just pop questions to keep you thinking.
One question... we could theoretically create a colony from the confu cities (or do you need 3?). Is there any point to even think about that?
Other: Troops are in vicinity... is there any good reason NOT to take some Lou cities? It's a lot of fun, if nothing else.
Paulopolis is good to gift, but wait please. If AI have a HC they will invariably convert to the HC religion. And we want their votes doubbled, I think.
I am glad someone with AP XP is up... that is you SH. So if you have plans for cities and good reasons for your choices, you'll have lots of leeway.
I'll just pop questions to keep you thinking.
One question... we could theoretically create a colony from the confu cities (or do you need 3?). Is there any point to even think about that?
Other: Troops are in vicinity... is there any good reason NOT to take some Lou cities? It's a lot of fun, if nothing else.
Think you mean giving Paulopolis to Nappy, it is in his trade screen and he is our vassal. Giving it to Louis would not be good.
Agree with accepting Peter's capitulation.
Let's get religions spread and temples built.
For original ideas, creating a colony with Confucian cities would be interesting. Do colonies start as vassals?
Could take some of Louis' cities, who you going to give them to? Unless they have two religions?
SteelHorse
Deity
Raze them unless we can give to Nappy. That means we need fewer votes to win.Think you mean giving Paulopolis to Nappy, it is in his trade screen and he is our vassal. Giving it to Louis would not be good.
I did mean Louis, but nappy works as well. It saves us having to get a second religion there. Since it does not have Hindu, it has no votes.
Agree with accepting Peter's capitulation.
Let's get religions spread and temples built.
For original ideas, creating a colony with Confucian cities would be interesting. Do colonies start as vassals?
How does that help?
Could take some of Louis' cities, who you going to give them to? Unless they have two religions?
SteelHorse
Deity
We need to keep track of overall % Hindu votes we have. We cannot have over 75%. Right now Louis cities are a big part of that.Paris should be fairly easy to get a 2nd religion... so there is no real hurry to liberate it. In about 7-8 turns we can make that decision with precision. Recall it has pop for temple whips plus it will come out of revolt in time to do so.
We need Nappy to have Hindu - that was the driver, not the second religion.
Paulopolis is good to gift, but wait please. If AI have a HC they will invariably convert to the HC religion. And we want their votes doubbled, I think.
We should decide now, because if we keep we need to get a second religion there and temples.
I am glad someone with AP XP is up... that is you SH. So if you have plans for cities and good reasons for your choices, you'll have lots of leeway.
I'll just pop questions to keep you thinking.
One question... we could theoretically create a colony from the confu cities (or do you need 3?). Is there any point to even think about that?
What would be the benefit of a colony?
Other: Troops are in vicinity... is there any good reason NOT to take some Lou cities? It's a lot of fun, if nothing else.
"I am glad someone with AP XP is up... that is you SH. So if you have plans for cities and good reasons for your choices, you'll have lots of leeway." Indeed. I've no experience with this.
SteelHorse
Deity
OK. will put together a plan tonight. it will be at the high level. While it is possible to do the detail planning to account for inevitable outcomes like missionary fails and AI religion flips, given that time is tight, I will not do so.
If the city is a vassal, it does not need two religions. Saves us getting a Missionary up there.
SteelHorse
Deity
Oh - and I assume we can't give it away to anyone. Duh - Makes sense.
EDIT: Just checked Confuciusgrad - it has 2 religions. No more missionaries needed there. It is light on food though for temple whips. Should get a worker up there for chops.
SteelHorse
Deity
Here is a spreadsheet that shows where we are, what we need, and city/temple plan. Numbers will obviously change, but we can track it.
Religion and Vote SS
High Level Plan
All Cities should produce temples or missionaries and micro max on food. No more units. We should concentrate on getting 3 religions in our nearby core cities that have pop of 7 or greater.
HCs:
Vinz (Tao) - suicide the cats unless he whips a unit in which case bombard and waiting for more attackers. Keep or raise - see below.
Judism HC - Assume we will raise this. May need more units than the 3 WEs in the Galleon on the way there now.
AI:
Churchill - Canterbury has Buddism. Hopefully he adopts. Need to get a Budd missionary to Nottingham.
Peter - Cap him - taking Orinburgh is not a big help though it saves 1 missionary. it does not have a lot of food for temple whips - that could be a bottleneck. we get the AP votes either way and they don't count toward self max of 75%.
Other:
Open Borders with Nappy.
Kill the friggin barb boats taking all our seafood.
Critical Questions:
1. What to do with Vinz? Keep or raze. 8 turns to come out of revolt. I should know this but I am not sure, can we run a missionary spread mission while a city is in revolt? I see an Islamic missionary in the Galleon outside of Vinz. I assume that is intended for Vinz?
2. Nappy and Paris - without Paris Nappy has no Hindu cities. Does that mean he will flip to no religion? If so, how can we get him to flip back? Infecting another city cost another missionary. If we can't then I think we have to liberate Paris to him this turn. Other thoughts?
3. Louis - Attack? Raze the cities if we can't gift to Nappy? We need to be careful though since Peter is the main reason we do not have 75% of Hindu votes. If we have to raze cities it complicates things. We are limited in the number of cities we can give to vassals because of the temple requirement.
4. Paulopolis - I think we should just keep and get a hindu missionary up there. It will be out of revolt in 2 turns. 2 temples there is a help. But if we DoW Louis - getting a missionary there will be tricky.
What else????
Religion and Vote SS
High Level Plan
All Cities should produce temples or missionaries and micro max on food. No more units. We should concentrate on getting 3 religions in our nearby core cities that have pop of 7 or greater.
HCs:
Vinz (Tao) - suicide the cats unless he whips a unit in which case bombard and waiting for more attackers. Keep or raise - see below.
Judism HC - Assume we will raise this. May need more units than the 3 WEs in the Galleon on the way there now.
AI:
Churchill - Canterbury has Buddism. Hopefully he adopts. Need to get a Budd missionary to Nottingham.
Peter - Cap him - taking Orinburgh is not a big help though it saves 1 missionary. it does not have a lot of food for temple whips - that could be a bottleneck. we get the AP votes either way and they don't count toward self max of 75%.
Other:
Open Borders with Nappy.
Kill the friggin barb boats taking all our seafood.
Critical Questions:
1. What to do with Vinz? Keep or raze. 8 turns to come out of revolt. I should know this but I am not sure, can we run a missionary spread mission while a city is in revolt? I see an Islamic missionary in the Galleon outside of Vinz. I assume that is intended for Vinz?
2. Nappy and Paris - without Paris Nappy has no Hindu cities. Does that mean he will flip to no religion? If so, how can we get him to flip back? Infecting another city cost another missionary. If we can't then I think we have to liberate Paris to him this turn. Other thoughts?
3. Louis - Attack? Raze the cities if we can't gift to Nappy? We need to be careful though since Peter is the main reason we do not have 75% of Hindu votes. If we have to raze cities it complicates things. We are limited in the number of cities we can give to vassals because of the temple requirement.
4. Paulopolis - I think we should just keep and get a hindu missionary up there. It will be out of revolt in 2 turns. 2 temples there is a help. But if we DoW Louis - getting a missionary there will be tricky.
What else????
Cannot raze Vinz, have to build transport ships there to get to Taoist Holy City, don't we?
Spoiler :
Think we should send a Hindu Missionary over to infect one or two of his other cities, we could use the votes anyway.
Don't see the purpose in doing this (unless it is to reduce his vote total?), unless we give those cities to Nappy. Then he will have some Hindu cities and more votes for us.
How many can we give him before he can declare his independence from us?
Agree.
Not sure, but something will pop up, sure of that.
Attachments
Here is a spreadsheet that shows where we are, what we need, and city/temple plan. Numbers will obviously change, but we can track it.
Religion and Vote SS
High Level Plan
All Cities should produce temples or missionaries and micro max on food. No more units. We should concentrate on getting 3 religions in our nearby core cities that have pop of 7 or greater.
HCs:
Vinz (Tao) - suicide the cats unless he whips a unit in which case bombard and waiting for more attackers. Keep or raise - see below. Must keep, or wait for submarines to take the HC.
Judism HC - Assume we will raise this. May need more units than the 3 WEs in the Galleon on the way there now. There should be 3 more units on boats on the way, unless I diverted to Tao??? Maybe I was thinking that units from Paris attack and boats there would only be a turn or two behind the advance guard. But iirc, there are 3 cats on the way east. Maybe not... I don't have access to the save right now.
AI:
Churchill - Canterbury has Buddism. Hopefully he adopts. Need to get a Budd missionary to Nottingham.Not sure what you are thinkingt about?
Peter - Cap him - taking Orinburgh is not a big help though it saves 1 missionary. it does not have a lot of food for temple whips - that could be a bottleneck. we get the AP votes either way and they don't count toward self max of 75%.That was my inclination, too. I did not do it because I recall Folket warning me not to accept Peter capitulation before... something. Seems like there is nothing there for us to bother with, and gifting Xtian HC might be useful
Other:
Open Borders with Nappy.Yes! I thought that was automatic with vassals, tho.
Kill the friggin barb boats taking all our seafood. Iritating yes, priority, no.
Critical Questions:
1. What to do with Vinz? Keep or raze. Keep, or weep.8 turns to come out of revolt. I should know this but I am not sure, can we run a missionary spread mission while a city is in revolt? I see an Islamic missionary in the Galleon outside of Vinz. I assume that is intended for Vinz?Yes
2. Nappy and Paris - without Paris Nappy has no Hindu cities. Does that mean he will flip to no religion?Yes, by default If so, how can we get him to flip back? Is that a victory requirement???Infecting another city cost another missionary. If we can't then I think we have to liberate Paris to him this turn. Other thoughts? I thought Nappy could worship his own butt if that's his thing... but I never had full grasp of the game requirements. If he needs a religion, its no harder to get a mish to him. Also... we don't need votes from him, so which religion is not important... unless I still don't get the requirements.
3. Louis - Attack? Nah... not unless you think its fun. It is a non-issue. We can protect mish even during a war. But it could be distracting for the player, so I would leave it up to Steelhorse if he sees any advantage or not.Raze the cities if we can't gift to Nappy? We need to be careful though since Peter is the main reason we do not have 75% of Hindu votes. If we have to raze cities it complicates things. We are limited in the number of cities we can give to vassals because of the temple requirement.
4. Paulopolis - I think we should just keep and get a hindu missionary up there. It will be out of revolt in 2 turns. 2 temples there is a help. But if we DoW Louis - getting a missionary there will be tricky.
What else????
I can't think of anything else, which is a good sign that I'm stupid.
Similar threads
