SGOTM 20 - Unusual SuspeX

SteelHorse · Oct 22, 2014

leif erikson said:
Cannot raze Vinz, have to build transport ships there to get to Taoist Holy City, don't we?

Oops - I missed that Vinz was not the HC. Can we build a fort on the Iron and sail our boats through, we could use the captured worker?

Think we should send a Hindu Missionary over to infect one or two of his other cities, we could use the votes anyway.
Fair enough - we don't care if necessarily Nappy isn't in Hindu as long as the voting %'s work out.

Don't see the purpose in doing this (unless it is to reduce his vote total?), unless we give those cities to Nappy. Then he will have some Hindu cities and more votes for us.
Those would be the reasons for doing it. Reduce his vote or increase ours. I guess we should hold off on this.

How many can we give him before he can declare his independence from us?
Good question. I haven't ever delved into the topic, but the tool tip says:
Land: 13% of Master free at 50% - he won't get to 50% of our land.
Pop: 9% of Master free at 50% - ditto
Land: 100% of Original free at 50% - i assume this means if he loses half of his existing land. Which shouldn't happen either.

Thanks - that helps answer the questions.

Will keep Paris and infect Rheims with Hindu.
Will keep Paulopolis.
Will not attack Louis for now. If we do attack Lyons would be a good candidate as it borders Nappy and we could gift to him. Will position some troops there in case this becomes an imperative.

SteelHorse · Oct 22, 2014

Can play tonight with some greens barring other ideas or questions.

Not sure 12 turns is doable. Getting to the Tao HC looks to be a problem. No visibility to Jewish HC is also a worry. not to mention the religion spread required.

In terms of skipping proposal session to time with VCs. Here are the proposal requirements (as best I can interpret):
1. Holy War - if we Cap Peter and no other wars, therefore no DoW proposal.
2. Trade Embargo - this will come up if any full member "is trading" with non-members churchill, nappy (after this turn assuming he moves to no religion). looks like several members have deals going with churchill - so this should come up.
3. Force Peace - no war, then no FP proposal
4. Open Borders - Vicki and Louis do not have OB so this should come up.
5. Defensive Pact - no MT tech researched so no DP proposal.
6. City Assignment from voting member to full member - only julius is a voting member (Nappy may become one once we spread to Rheims). none of julius cities seem to qualify based on culture.
7. Religious Victory - until churchill and nappy are members this will not come up.

So it does not look like we can delay a proposal.

Cactus Pete · Oct 22, 2014

"I should know this but I am not sure, can we run a missionary spread mission while a city is in revolt? " You can in Vanilla, but I always wonder if it affects the probability of success.

Deckhand · Oct 22, 2014

@kcd

Must keep, or wait for submarines to take the HC.

I'd love to set up a game that required submarines to capture or settle a city.
But they only carry missiles. Attack subs are like advanced caravels, they can take

Cargo Space: 1 (can carry scout, explorer, missionary, spy, or great people)

but no settlers or units that could attack.

SteelHorse · Oct 22, 2014

Cactus Pete said:
"I should know this but I am not sure, can we run a missionary spread mission while a city is in revolt? " You can in Vanilla, but I always wonder if it affects the probability of success.

Good and according to the article on missionary fails posted earlier, it does not. Only the presence of another religion which decreases success by 9% per other religion.

kcd_swede · Oct 22, 2014

SteelHorse said:
Thanks - that helps answer the questions.

Will keep Paris and infect Rheims with Hindu.
Will keep Paulopolis.
Will not attack Louis for now. If we do attack Lyons would be a good candidate as it borders Nappy and we could gift to him. Will position some troops there in case this becomes an imperative.

No qualms here. Green from me. You are best equipped to handle eventualities. If possible, use diplomacy/spread to clear the resolutions that might come up. Propose and vote for a resolution that must appear (n 2t) and use diplo if possible to clear ones that might appear in 12t. Not sure its possible, but if it is, that's a 10t difference that could be the difference between bronze and another 4th place finish. So think hard, and do what AP experts are expected to do.

Good luck, and have fun! :viking:

leif erikson · Oct 22, 2014

SteelHorse said:
Oops - I missed that Vinz was not the HC. Can we build a fort on the Iron and sail our boats through, we could use the captured worker?

Think you can only build forts within your cultural boundaries? So we need to figure out which is faster, whipping boats when the city comes out of anarchy or building a fort?

Probably whipping will be faster? :hmm:

SteelHorse said:
Thanks - that helps answer the questions.

Will keep Paris and infect Rheims with Hindu.
Will keep Paulopolis.
Will not attack Louis for now. If we do attack Lyons would be a good candidate as it borders Nappy and we could gift to him. Will position some troops there in case this becomes an imperative.

Green from here.

Good luck and happy hunting! :hammer:

I'll have to perform the ceremonial Haka in the rain and hope I don't get blown over. It is nasty here. :yuck:

SteelHorse · Oct 22, 2014

kcd_swede said:
Churchill - Canterbury has Buddism. Hopefully he adopts. Need to get a Budd missionary to Nottingham.Not sure what you are thinkingt about?
Make that Hindu so Churchill is a member (not Budd). If churchill adopts Hindu his votes are doubled complicating the vote (especially if he spreads) - so hopefully he converts to Budd.

Peter - Cap him - taking Orinburgh is not a big help though it saves 1 missionary. it does not have a lot of food for temple whips - that could be a bottleneck. we get the AP votes either way and they don't count toward self max of 75%.That was my inclination, too. I did not do it because I recall Folket warning me not to accept Peter capitulation before... something. Seems like there is nothing there for us to bother with, and gifting Xtian HC might be useful

I worry that gifting the Christian HC might enduce him to switch religions, this might be problematic.
EDIT - if gifted to Louis that is, Nappy would be ok.

Open Borders with Nappy.Yes! I thought that was automatic with vassals, tho.
You are probably right.

agree with the other points.

Folket · Oct 22, 2014

I do not think Churchill will adopt any religion since he is in free religion.

Cactus Pete · Oct 22, 2014

Green, and appreciate you stepping up.

SteelHorse · Oct 22, 2014

Folket said:
I do not think Churchill will adopt any religion since he is in free religion.

Good catch - I missed that :goodjob:

That is indeed good news.

Will play a turn or two in a little bit.

SteelHorse · Oct 23, 2014

Played a couple of turns. Checked in the save for perusal. Vote/Temple SS should be up to date. Will play a bit more in the AM.

The only challenge has been getting eyes on the 2 remaining HCs.

Turn Notes
T167
Cap Peter
Open borders with Nappy - if even necessary
Sell Augustus guilds for 30g
Reposition Troops

T168
Kill some barb galleys
Do some whips
Take Vinz - 6 turns of revolt

T169
More spreading and whipping
Start a fort (9) next to Vinz
Looking for Jewish HC - hmmm

SteelHorse · Oct 23, 2014

Here is the save link
Save

and session log:

Spoiler :

leif erikson · Oct 23, 2014

Looking good from here. Still have a number of cities needing religious spread.

Yakustk and the city to the south have no religions. :eek:

Still have time though, waiting for cities to come out of resistance. :sad:

The Jewish HC must be on the southern isle? What a pain.

Does Churchill have Hindu? Doesn't look like it, although I understand he is in free religion. Can we win a religious victory without him having at least one city with Hindu?
And Nappy too?

Folket · Oct 23, 2014

We need to spread to Churchill and Napoleon.

SteelHorse · Oct 23, 2014

One piece of good news is that it appears that we can liberate Vinz to Nappy. So once we take out the Taoist HC, we don't need to build temples there.

SteelHorse · Oct 23, 2014

leif erikson said:
Looking good from here. Still have a number of cities needing religious spread.

Yakustk and the city to the south have no religions.
Still have time though, waiting for cities to come out of resistance.

Jeez - It was only 3 turns. Yes - they are nearby cities though. The city to the south Kras has 1 religion and 1 temple. Yak is only city with none. Both have good enough pop for the necessary temples. We have Islam coming north and Budd coming south for those needing a second or third.

The Jewish HC must be on the southern isle? What a pain.
That is my hope.

Does Churchill have Hindu? Doesn't look like it, although I understand he is in free religion. Can we win a religious victory without him having at least one city with Hindu?
And Nappy too?

Nope we need them both to have at least 1 Hindu city. we will get a Hindu Miss in Rome, the Galleon to transport was just whipped. And there is Hindu Miss in a boat headed for Rheims now.

SteelHorse · Oct 23, 2014

Folket said:
We need to spread to Churchill and Napoleon.

Yup - see last post.

kcd_swede · Oct 23, 2014

a big WTH for the new format in civfanatics. :lol:

a big

for Steelhorse. Keep up the god work!

SteelHorse · Oct 23, 2014

I have uploaded again, looking almost possible. Will not play before tonight again, so any input is appreciated. Or if anyone else wants to man the helm, speak up.

Found Jewish HC - lightly guarded, no worries.
Have Hind missionaries en-route to Rheims and in Warwick (headed to nottingham - lower pop)
Have workers headed to Vinz for fort building. A lot will depend on what is in Tao HC - if there are no pikes we should be fine.

I am a bit worried about getting 2 temples in Sidd - will know more in 1 turn. wondering if I should raise culture slider to get quicker border pop there. Can then work the piggies.

Will sell some tech soon for gold.

We are just below the AP VC limit now (74.7%). Will get some from Nappy and lose some from Churchill.

Notes:
T169
More spreading and whipping
Start a fort (9) next to Vinz
Looking for Jewish HC - hmmm
IBT
AP Proposal - Only option sign open borders which we vote yes for.

T170
More spread and whipping
Trade with Aug Astro for Drama

IBT
Peter asks for CS - so i give it to him
Can see Louis research guilds(3)
Open Borders succeeds with only our votes. So this should not come next time
We now have enough votes to win AP (by 1)

T171
Find Jewish HC, 2 archers, should go quick - yeah!
Spread and Whip

SGOTM 20 - Unusual SuspeX

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