SGOTM 21 - Jag älskar er
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
ecawilson
Warlord
Spoiler :
ecawilson
Warlord
So, here is my guess as to how the game was built (I realize this is little more than conversation fodder for the lurker's thread, but they deserve to have a little fun too):
Continents is a lose term, think more Australia than North/South America. We have 6 rivals, we know 4 of them. I guess that all 4 are on different 'continents', and that Willem is on ours. The other 2 are 'jealous boyfriends'(+10 or so) to 'their' lady (Spain or Russia), and are probably thugs (warmongers). All three ladies, on the other hand, have positive relations with Willem (is it required to already have contact with someone to already have relations set at the beginning of the game?) because he is so... [?smooth?]. The thugs are jealous of that, have negative relations already, and are/will be worst enemies with him. As we trade with Willem for info, we get hit with 'traded with worst enemy' penalties. The third lady, Elizabeth, is known as the Virgin Queen historically, right? I assume she will be isolated, alone on a continent. What if, to make sure she weren't destroyed by barbarians early on but still had space to create an empire, she were given extra units to start out with, but ones that won't be useful after Astronomy (axemen?), and some extra economy so she won't disband them. If we go by their traditional legends, Catherine would be the 'easiest' to 'win' her 'heart' (this is a family friendly site, after all), and would likely be closest to us, reachable by an archipelago or something. Might even be as simple as get a military unit past her boyfriend into her area, or maybe even 'beat him up', or a great artist to her capital. Spain is traditionally interested in gold, exploration, etc. Can we tell if there are events in a save file without going into the world builder? One cool thing might be a sign somewhere that says El Dorado, and if we are the 'first' to find it (only verifiable with an event), we 'win her heart'. or maybe gift her a map containing x% of the land area before satellites, or a great merchant before a certain tech. All things possible before Astronomy, but unlikely. And Elizabeth would want something like the sun to never set on our empire, or maybe have to do with Shakespeare or privateers.
That might be a fun story, but has little to do with how we play, except for a few things...
Since we know nothing about any of our rivals, I say we take this as our paradigm until we do. That means that we need to learn quickly where one (Russia?) of them is, and try to buy information about only one at a time (Russia?) first. Also, we need to know (you may, I don't) if trading with someone's worst enemy before you meet that someone will cause relationship damage.
Therefore, I prefer to do be wise in our trading with Willem, as we don't want to take the 'worst enemy' label away from him, and cause the ladies to declare war on us at the behest of their boyfriends. Also, frankly, I see little likelihood in there being conditions to victory that exist before actually contacting the lady in question. As such, I vote (tentatively, as this is based on much assumption) that we save our workers and gold until after we have met someone else, unless we are slow in exploring and need directions.
Continents is a lose term, think more Australia than North/South America. We have 6 rivals, we know 4 of them. I guess that all 4 are on different 'continents', and that Willem is on ours. The other 2 are 'jealous boyfriends'(+10 or so) to 'their' lady (Spain or Russia), and are probably thugs (warmongers). All three ladies, on the other hand, have positive relations with Willem (is it required to already have contact with someone to already have relations set at the beginning of the game?) because he is so... [?smooth?]. The thugs are jealous of that, have negative relations already, and are/will be worst enemies with him. As we trade with Willem for info, we get hit with 'traded with worst enemy' penalties. The third lady, Elizabeth, is known as the Virgin Queen historically, right? I assume she will be isolated, alone on a continent. What if, to make sure she weren't destroyed by barbarians early on but still had space to create an empire, she were given extra units to start out with, but ones that won't be useful after Astronomy (axemen?), and some extra economy so she won't disband them. If we go by their traditional legends, Catherine would be the 'easiest' to 'win' her 'heart' (this is a family friendly site, after all), and would likely be closest to us, reachable by an archipelago or something. Might even be as simple as get a military unit past her boyfriend into her area, or maybe even 'beat him up', or a great artist to her capital. Spain is traditionally interested in gold, exploration, etc. Can we tell if there are events in a save file without going into the world builder? One cool thing might be a sign somewhere that says El Dorado, and if we are the 'first' to find it (only verifiable with an event), we 'win her heart'. or maybe gift her a map containing x% of the land area before satellites, or a great merchant before a certain tech. All things possible before Astronomy, but unlikely. And Elizabeth would want something like the sun to never set on our empire, or maybe have to do with Shakespeare or privateers.
That might be a fun story, but has little to do with how we play, except for a few things...
Since we know nothing about any of our rivals, I say we take this as our paradigm until we do. That means that we need to learn quickly where one (Russia?) of them is, and try to buy information about only one at a time (Russia?) first. Also, we need to know (you may, I don't) if trading with someone's worst enemy before you meet that someone will cause relationship damage.
Therefore, I prefer to do be wise in our trading with Willem, as we don't want to take the 'worst enemy' label away from him, and cause the ladies to declare war on us at the behest of their boyfriends. Also, frankly, I see little likelihood in there being conditions to victory that exist before actually contacting the lady in question. As such, I vote (tentatively, as this is based on much assumption) that we save our workers and gold until after we have met someone else, unless we are slow in exploring and need directions.
elitetroops
Deity
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Okay, here's the detailed plan:
(I'm afraid tables don't show properly in tapatalk, should I try writing it out in text?)
Diplo: No heads on poles. Will stop upon meeting anyone.
Espionage: all on william
Slider: 100% research
STOPPING/PAUSE CONDITIONS:
if any of the following occur, I stop to report and consult with team-
Religion spreads to us, WW is built, we meet someone, Willem makes a demand, barb troubles, any unusual map features and/or occurances observed.
Additional tasks: Take screeenshot of Demo screen at start of each turn. Take screenshot of victories screen at start of each turn.
The main danger I see is potential barb trouble that prevents us from chopping gems. Worker would have to be outside our border 3 turns before city is settled (with a fortified warrior on the same forest tile, warrior arrives 1t before worker). If a bear shows up, we should withdraw worker because we don't want to risk it on a coin flip. This is why I think it's best to stop the worker chopping, so that it doesn't have a chance to execute the next turn of chopping unless we want to do that. If a wolf comes from the fog without warning and beats our warrior at some 3% odds, then that's just plain BS. I've played this out, or variants of it, in the test game over a dozen times and barbs have never interfered with settling of 2nd city, so the chances are very small that this happens. Will stop if there's barbs around.
The one turn into farm on t25 is probably useless, I doubt we'll ever finish that farm, but there is nothing else for worker to do either.
Anything else?
Oh, yes, I also have to figure out the BUFFY logging thingie. Haven't used it before.
Spoiler :
Diplo: No heads on poles. Will stop upon meeting anyone.
Espionage: all on william
Slider: 100% research
STOPPING/PAUSE CONDITIONS:
if any of the following occur, I stop to report and consult with team-
Religion spreads to us, WW is built, we meet someone, Willem makes a demand, barb troubles, any unusual map features and/or occurances observed.
Additional tasks: Take screeenshot of Demo screen at start of each turn. Take screenshot of victories screen at start of each turn.
The main danger I see is potential barb trouble that prevents us from chopping gems. Worker would have to be outside our border 3 turns before city is settled (with a fortified warrior on the same forest tile, warrior arrives 1t before worker). If a bear shows up, we should withdraw worker because we don't want to risk it on a coin flip. This is why I think it's best to stop the worker chopping, so that it doesn't have a chance to execute the next turn of chopping unless we want to do that. If a wolf comes from the fog without warning and beats our warrior at some 3% odds, then that's just plain BS. I've played this out, or variants of it, in the test game over a dozen times and barbs have never interfered with settling of 2nd city, so the chances are very small that this happens. Will stop if there's barbs around.
The one turn into farm on t25 is probably useless, I doubt we'll ever finish that farm, but there is nothing else for worker to do either.
Anything else?
Oh, yes, I also have to figure out the BUFFY logging thingie. Haven't used it before.
The word "Er" is the singular formal "you", something you would call royalty. The word "er" is the plural "you" as an obejt, rather than a subject in a sentence. Our title should probably be Er instead of er, but I doubt AlanH would do anything other than grump at us if we said anything.
No need to learn Swedish. Everyone on this team talks good english
.All of us have played on "English-only" teams. Also, for sake of posterity and lurkers, we are strongly encouraged by the admins to do this in English. If you need to swear, any langauge other than english is preferred.
...and swedish isn't exactly a global language, so there isn't any reason to learn it unless you live here, have relatives who live here, or just want to impress swedish chicks.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Green. Thanks for stepping forward. Another night where I just got home from work at 9:00pm (aka 21:00 hours).
Green to pause at Bronzeworking
elitetroops
Deity
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Okay, I'll play in a few hours if nobody opposes.
ecawilson
Warlord
Please assume my silence as assent
ecawilson
Warlord
Would a google spreadsheet be more or less convenient for tables such as the one in post 144?
Would be more so for me, both for keeping records of what we did, and commenting on individual decisions before changing plans. I suppose the drawbacks would be how google sheets shows up on each teammate's preferred browser (some mobile devices don't do well anymore), confidentiality, and continuity. If we have a desire to keep it confidential, we would need to cause each teammate to log into their google account before seeing the most recent version, which for some (not me) would create an additional unnecessary step. Leaving the tables here would keep the current security in place with no additional step. On the other hand, I am not really interested in playing 'against' teams that we can't trust to keep to themselves.
With continuity, I think comments in a google sheet on the specific cell could create more robust conversations at the time, but once any change were made the comments would have to be deleted, and it would be harder to come back afterward and understand why a certain decision were made, unless the comments were copied to this thread prior to deletion, and referenced which cell they came from, and the old data included.
Maybe someone from the lurker thread could comment on the consensus there too, if we decide this is a good idea.
Would be more so for me, both for keeping records of what we did, and commenting on individual decisions before changing plans. I suppose the drawbacks would be how google sheets shows up on each teammate's preferred browser (some mobile devices don't do well anymore), confidentiality, and continuity. If we have a desire to keep it confidential, we would need to cause each teammate to log into their google account before seeing the most recent version, which for some (not me) would create an additional unnecessary step. Leaving the tables here would keep the current security in place with no additional step. On the other hand, I am not really interested in playing 'against' teams that we can't trust to keep to themselves.
With continuity, I think comments in a google sheet on the specific cell could create more robust conversations at the time, but once any change were made the comments would have to be deleted, and it would be harder to come back afterward and understand why a certain decision were made, unless the comments were copied to this thread prior to deletion, and referenced which cell they came from, and the old data included.
Maybe someone from the lurker thread could comment on the consensus there too, if we decide this is a good idea.
ecawilson
Warlord
Still having some growing pains, coming in late. I understand now we have only completed 8 turns. Nevermind this comment, I thought we were already after 25 turns.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I've used Google Sheets and excel sheets before. Both work fine. I'm not concerned about confidentiality at all. I don't believe anyone playing in this competition will cheat, and if they wanted to do so, the Google Sheets are the least thing we would worry about.
A spreadsheet does introduce a certain amount of bureaucratic overhead.
p.s. nobody from the lurker thread will post in our thread about this. It's against the rules for them to post here. We have to make the decision on our own.
p.p.s. I've never used the spreadsheet as a place to make comments, but more as a place to propose alternatives. I think the comments and discussion should happen in this thread.
p.p.p.s. Good luck and may all our barbarians be a source of XP and not a source of angst!
A spreadsheet does introduce a certain amount of bureaucratic overhead.
p.s. nobody from the lurker thread will post in our thread about this. It's against the rules for them to post here. We have to make the decision on our own.
p.p.s. I've never used the spreadsheet as a place to make comments, but more as a place to propose alternatives. I think the comments and discussion should happen in this thread.
p.p.p.s. Good luck and may all our barbarians be a source of XP and not a source of angst!
elitetroops
Deity
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T23:
Taking a pause here to see if you have any thoughts on espionage points. We'll probably be forced to take out that madman sooner or later. Scout arriving t23 means he's not necessarily close, but he might be. He knows Willem and has a -3 "past events have drawn our people apart" modifier. Still cautious with him though. Willem is pleased with Shaka (+-0, no modifiers). Shaka has no prejudice against us. Scout arrived from NW.
I was too focused on making the right moves so forgot to enable Buffy log until t13. Also forgot to take the screenshots of demographics t10-t12. I have the autosaves so I could still take them. It's okay to open autosaves, right? Even if the worker move (build farm) will be automatically executed as soon as I open the save?
Otherwise all is going according to plan. Settler and BW coming in 5 turns.
Spoiler :
Taking a pause here to see if you have any thoughts on espionage points. We'll probably be forced to take out that madman sooner or later. Scout arriving t23 means he's not necessarily close, but he might be. He knows Willem and has a -3 "past events have drawn our people apart" modifier. Still cautious with him though. Willem is pleased with Shaka (+-0, no modifiers). Shaka has no prejudice against us. Scout arrived from NW.
I was too focused on making the right moves so forgot to enable Buffy log until t13. Also forgot to take the screenshots of demographics t10-t12. I have the autosaves so I could still take them. It's okay to open autosaves, right? Even if the worker move (build farm) will be automatically executed as soon as I open the save?
Otherwise all is going according to plan. Settler and BW coming in 5 turns.
elitetroops
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Demos t13-t23:
One rival hasn't grown past pop 1 yet, that's odd...
I have the images of the victory screen, but nothing interesting was going on. Willem seems to have stagnated at pop 3, possibly building a settler. Shaka aint any bigger than him. Here's after meeting Shaka:
Spoiler :
One rival hasn't grown past pop 1 yet, that's odd...
I have the images of the victory screen, but nothing interesting was going on. Willem seems to have stagnated at pop 3, possibly building a settler. Shaka aint any bigger than him. Here's after meeting Shaka:
Spoiler :
elitetroops
Deity
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BUFFY log t13-t23:
Spoiler :
Viktig Information
Läs noga
Spara Informationen för framtida bruk
VARNING
Allvarliga eller livsfarliga klämskador kan ske om möbler tippar över. För att förhindra att den här möbeln tippar mâste den fästas permanent vid väggen.
Fästbeslag för väggen medföljer inte eftersom olika väggmaterial kräver olika typer av fästbeslag. Använd ett fastbeslag som râd om lämpliga fästbeslag, kontakta din fackhandlare.
----
If you don't ever hear of me again, I died while trying to assemble IKEA furniture.
Läs noga
Spara Informationen för framtida bruk
VARNING
Allvarliga eller livsfarliga klämskador kan ske om möbler tippar över. För att förhindra att den här möbeln tippar mâste den fästas permanent vid väggen.
Fästbeslag för väggen medföljer inte eftersom olika väggmaterial kräver olika typer av fästbeslag. Använd ett fastbeslag som râd om lämpliga fästbeslag, kontakta din fackhandlare.
----
If you don't ever hear of me again, I died while trying to assemble IKEA furniture.
elitetroops
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2012
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- 5,725
Actually, you'll die because you didn't attach the assembled furniture to the wall and it tips over on you.
ecawilson
Warlord
Attach with what?!? The Fästbeslag aren't included!!! I call conspiracy! IKEA is out to kill us all with their fashionable and low cost furniture, I know it!
ecawilson
Warlord
I meant BSPollux or Deckhand post the consensus, not [random user name].
I prefer to keep all the EP on Willem, maybe Shaka will ignore us with his. Once he starts putting EP on the player, he never stops (in my experience). Also, can we get a count of Willem's and Shaka's EP with each other and us? That will give us clue who they know so far, or at least how many. It looks like we already have more than Willem has on us, so he probably knows more than just Shaka.
Bummer on not being on separate continents from the jealous boyfriends.
I have no idea if it is ok to open autosaves, but I think the worker automoves aren't made before units waiting on manual orders. So, if the warrior is awake, I don't think any moves are made. I'm sure you have had this happen to you, where you have a unit move to a tile where a road is being built, and the road is finished the same turn, but after the unit stops there.
Doesn't look to me like anyone else has a second city yet, and we know 5 of the 6 opponents. If we go to the top 5 cities screen, doesn't it show us just enough of the surroundings to show us if anyone is on the coast? And, if I remember correctly, it might tell us the size of Shaka's capital, right? How about a screenshot for that (if for nothing else than curiosity)? I assume the top city will be the one with religion, which we can safely assume is Spain, I think. We could check the religion screen every few turns to see if Buddhism and Hinduism have the same %'s, to see if they were founded in the same city. Or can anyone do the math in their head, and figure out if it is possible with the GNP we are seeing to have researched both Meditation and Polytheism on turn 13?
I prefer to keep all the EP on Willem, maybe Shaka will ignore us with his. Once he starts putting EP on the player, he never stops (in my experience). Also, can we get a count of Willem's and Shaka's EP with each other and us? That will give us clue who they know so far, or at least how many. It looks like we already have more than Willem has on us, so he probably knows more than just Shaka.
Bummer on not being on separate continents from the jealous boyfriends.
I have no idea if it is ok to open autosaves, but I think the worker automoves aren't made before units waiting on manual orders. So, if the warrior is awake, I don't think any moves are made. I'm sure you have had this happen to you, where you have a unit move to a tile where a road is being built, and the road is finished the same turn, but after the unit stops there.
Doesn't look to me like anyone else has a second city yet, and we know 5 of the 6 opponents. If we go to the top 5 cities screen, doesn't it show us just enough of the surroundings to show us if anyone is on the coast? And, if I remember correctly, it might tell us the size of Shaka's capital, right? How about a screenshot for that (if for nothing else than curiosity)? I assume the top city will be the one with religion, which we can safely assume is Spain, I think. We could check the religion screen every few turns to see if Buddhism and Hinduism have the same %'s, to see if they were founded in the same city. Or can anyone do the math in their head, and figure out if it is possible with the GNP we are seeing to have researched both Meditation and Polytheism on turn 13?
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Agree with keeping EP on Willem.
If nothing irreversable occurred during the interturns, it should be ok to open the autosaves to grab demographic screenshots. It's not a bad idea to make a manual save every turn.
We know 5 of 6 opponents? Really??? [edit - I think you mean we know who five of the six opponents are, not that we have met them]
If nothing irreversable occurred during the interturns, it should be ok to open the autosaves to grab demographic screenshots. It's not a bad idea to make a manual save every turn.
We know 5 of 6 opponents? Really??? [edit - I think you mean we know who five of the six opponents are, not that we have met them]
