SGOTM 21 - Jag älskar er

[kcd_swede]

Agree with keeping EP on Willem.

If nothing irreversable occurred during the interturns, it should be ok to open the autosaves to grab demographic screenshots. It's not a bad idea to make a manual save every turn.

We know 5 of 6 opponents? Really??? [edit - I think you mean we know who five of the six opponents are, not that we have met them]

The demo screen says we have 9 rivals. We know about the 3 queens, and the two civs we met: willem, and shaka. We know nothing about 4 unknown. We still need to meet 7 civs.

Very bad idea to open autosaves where a queued unit move is going to execute. In general, I would say do not open earlier files. Its only a violation of rules if something irreversible (like a unit move or diplomatic action, etc) occurs... but best not take the risk.

Agree to keep all EP on Willem for now. We will want to eliminate Shaka asap, in any scenario I can imagine.

And bookcase Billy is a killer.

 

[BSPollux]

I wanted to buy Billy/Oxberg, but decided to buy Kallax instead

Edit: And yes, I strongly advice against opening an older save. Even if we would allow it, I don't know if Buffy likes it

 

[elitetroops]

Okay, will play on in a few hours. Keeping EP on Willem for now. At some point we might want to put some on Shaka to see his demographics.

Regarding those autosaves, they are from t10-t12 when the only unit we have is a worker, which is building a farm. This move would autoexecute when save is opened. Won't open them then.

Otherwise I had never had any problems opening old saves. Both in HoF games and previous SGOTM games (and this SGOTM game) I've been opening older saves to have a look at some numbers or unit positions. If it is a paused save, not an autosave, then nothing can go wrong as long as it's not unpaused. It's my understanding that this is perfectly okay by the rules and I've never had a game disqualified.

Will make a paused end of turn save from now on.

Yes, 9 opponents. It's mentioned in the game description in the sign-up thread, and I mentioned earlier in this thread that this is a difference between the test game and the real game. Shouldn't make any real difference for testing purposes, except that wonders might on average be built earlier in the real game. Or then not, depending on the lands of the AI.

 

[BSPollux]

OK elite, send them to me, I'll open them and return the demos, ok?
That way there's no way you cheat and no one has to be nervous.

I'll send you you my email in a pm

 

[elitetroops]

Thank you for the offer, but I think I will have to pass... I made a mistake fair and square. It could be considered unfair to the other teams if we get help correcting that mistake.

Those demos are not that critical. Here are the demos for t9 and t13:

Spoiler :

Not much has changed in between. Someone grew from pop 3 to pop 4 and there's a bit of power increase, which can come from growth or building units. Also, someone might have gotten a gold or gems mine online due to increased GNP. GNP does include a lot of other stuff also, so it could be something else.

I doubt anyone on our team could extract any useful information by knowing the exact turns when these numbers have changed...

 

[elitetroops]

Okay, played and uploaded.

I did not revolt to slavery yet, makes it easier to make plans when you can see build and research times. But revolting to slavery should be the first thing the next player does.

No problems, everything went according to plan.

Shaka settled his 2nd city t25, Willem still at one city, grown to pop 4.

No copper in sight.

Again, I forgot to turn on the BUFFY log... sorry! Next time I shall write that in bold at the top of my PPP.

Here's the upload log:

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 3640 BC to 2880 BC:

Turn 9, 3640 BC: You have discovered Agriculture!

Turn 13, 3480 BC: Logging Game to File: Pericles.txt (this was from the turns played yesterday)
Turn 13, 3480 BC: Hinduism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 16, 3360 BC: You have discovered Mining!

Turn 25, 3000 BC: The borders of Kärlekshamn have expanded!

Turn 27, 2920 BC: You have discovered Bronze Working!

 

[elitetroops]

Demos t24-t28:

Spoiler :

Victory screen t28:

Spoiler :

One island tile revealed by borderpop:

Spoiler :

 

[elitetroops]

Here's my test game played to current state. Didn't edit the surrounding land yet, but that should not matter for next turnset, I think...

I put Shaka on our continent.

 

[ecawilson]

Ok, I am starting to catch up, I think. Yes, test game confused me, with the number of rivals, the turn number, and what cities were founded. But I think I am good now.

We kind of need copper in order for us to defend against Shaka, or maybe a nearby horse. I am confident that the -3 to Willem means that he must have some connection with a queen, and I assume he is near one. I suppose it is possible that all the male civs have negative with Willem, but that doesn't match the plot to do that without them even knowing a single queen. Can we try to get a scout going soon?

I haven't done the tests, and so just want to ask you... are we sure that gems/wheat is a better second city than cow/gems/crab? If we are sure, then carry on... but it doesn't look right at first glance.

Also, I am wondering if the southeast corner of plainshill island would be a good future city site: it uses the otherwise inaccessible fish, islands are safe from shaka, has enough production to get the maoi statues built, and it will give us an overseas trade bonus pretty early (I think 4th city?). On the other hand, plainshill makes gems/wheat a little less attractive.

Just tell me I am crazy or naive if gems/wheat is still best. I realize a wasted turn or two means a lot at this stage of the game, but a well placed city means more than that. I just want to be sure.

I stick with jealous boyfriend paradigm. I am less sure about 'virgin queen', but still have no reason to think that Russia is further away.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

I am not at all convinced about the order in which we settle cow/crab/gems vs wheat/gems. Testing is in order.

Animal husbandry is higher on my want list since we don't have copper.

The plains hill island looks great for Moai and overseas trade routes. I like it much better than the fur island, which really has nothing going for it except the 1 happy face, which we can eventually gain via a fort.

BUFFY log is more important as the game goes on, because it includes all sorts of useful information about diplomatic relations and events. We should make sure to get it turned on going forward, but it's not a big deal in the first few turns.

 

[elitetroops]

Umm... I think it's a little late to change our minds about that now. Settler is on it's way to wheat/gems, worker is already chopping 1N of city location, chop comes in the turn we settle. We don't have AH and we don't have a workboat for cow/crab/gems.

If we settle wheat/gems on t30 as planned, we can settle cow/crab/gems t39 with a workboat improving crab the same turn and AH researched. In the meantime wheat/crab is borrowing wheat from cap and grows to start working the gems. Thanks to the chops it will also pump out a few warriors for fogbusting and exploring.

 

[kcd_swede]

Good job elitetroops!

Cow/crabs/gems is a better city in the long run, but it is not faster to get going. It needs a border pop to work the cow or gems, or a workboat to make the crabs tasty. The wheat can be worked immediately by the wheat/gems city, making its initial growth rate about twice that of the cow site. We should not delay settling the cow site any more than necessary, though... and Kärlekshamn (KH) will be able to produce another settler fairly quickly.

AH should be next, we need war resource somewhere. Without that, archery will be needed by turn 40 or so. I'd prefer to build a chariot to scout rather than a scout, due to survivability issues.

More workers, settlers, and warriors, maybe even a wb in there somewhere. Need to test to find optimum build orders.

I'll have a look at the save now. BTW- Are you OK for the next turnset ChrisShaffer, or would you prefer to swap again with the next?

 

[ChrisShaffer]

If we settle wheat/gems on t30 as planned, we can settle cow/crab/gems t39 with a workboat improving crab the same turn and AH researched. In the meantime wheat/crab is borrowing wheat from cap and grows to start working the gems. Thanks to the chops it will also pump out a few warriors for fogbusting and exploring.

OK, that sounds good to me. I didn't realize we had actually "agreed" to that.

Yes, I'm ready for the next turnset. I have most of this weekend free. I'll post a draft PPP tonight and could play as early as tomorrow or Sunday if desired.

 

[elitetroops]

I don't think we've agreed to anything past settling t30. The 3rd city t39 plan is just a suggestion.

We don't have much useful stuff to build right now except worker, settler and warriors. And wb for crab. We could have an exploring wb out pretty soon as well. Could be done for example after 2nd warrior from city 2. Depends on what we find in the north.

The warrior who is guarding worker should probably go exploring a bit as soon as city is settled.

And so you know, worker has performed one turn of chopping this turn, then I stopped him. My updated test game should have all our stuff like it is in real game.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Capital: Worker -> Settler (to be chopped/whipped). Give up wheat to city 2 and use grass farm.

City 2: Wheat, then wheat + gems. Workboat. What should we name city 2?

Worker 1: Chop. Mine. 1NW. Chop. (Next turn set: mine).

Worker 2: SW SE to hill forest. Chop.

Warrior 1: Fortify capital.

Warrior 2: Scout counter clockwise as soon as city 2 is founded.

Civics: Revolt to slavery immediately.

Research: Animal husbandry.

Diplo: No heads on poles.

Espionage: All on Willem.

Slider: 100% research.

Stop/Pause: If any of the following occur, I stop to report and consult with team: religion spreads to us, wonder is built, we meet someone new, Willem or Shaka make a demand, barbarian troubles, any unusual map features and/or occurrences observed, animal husbandry research completed.

Additional tasks: Verify that BUFFY logging is turned on. At start of turn, make manual save, demo and victory screenshots. Save the CivFanatics upload page log.

Attached file shows what this looks like in the test game.

 

[ecawilson]

nitpicking: I don't like using fortify. ever. I like sentry. Is there a reason I don't know to use fortify, when sentry still gives the 25% bonus after 5 turns, but also wakes up in case we miss a barbarian or someone else coming close?

warrior2: I like counterclockwise, how far out of the way is it to be sure that plainshill island is in fact an island?

city naming: do I read the dictionary correctly, that the love our capital is named after is physical, not emotional? Let's not take the plot in the wrong direction... We are trying to woo these ladies. Let's use Swedish words for positive character traits like 'charming', 'suave', 'rich', 'handsome', or any of the other reasons my wife married me.

I concede the location of city 2 to your tests. Thank you.

How do you stop when a demand is made? I can't figure out how to minimize or postpone those diplo screens. Or are we talking about leaving the game running for as many hours (days) as it takes to reach a consensus? What if we have a 6 year old that likes the power button on the computer, and have this crazy notion that going to work some days has value?

 

[ChrisShaffer]

I'm not sure why we use fortify instead of sentry. I think the assumption is that since I have "show enemy moves" and "show friendly moves" turned on, and we are *obsessively* checking everything every turn before clicking end turn, it's not a big difference.

I'm not sure how far we'd have to go to verify that it's really an island. I was planning to take the first step NE, which might be enough.

Yes, when a demand is made, you pause and switch to another window and ask for help. Whoever is online helps. If your computer crashes, you do what you always do when you have a crash - report it and then revert to the most recent autosave. You really hope that doesn't happen.

 

[ecawilson]

This being my first SGOTM, I am curious if this team is more or less verbose than most. Also curious about our playing speed compared to other teams. I know I can look at past games, but that is different. Would it be wholly inappropriate to get a post/turn count for the other teams, or does knowing what turn they are on go against the spirit of the competition?

 

[ChrisShaffer]

By the way, we're #1. We appear to have the highest culture, score, and power at our most recent save point compared to the other teams. PR is the farthest along, and they've been posting saves about every other turn. They had a huge jump in power at about turn 30, which I assume was their City 2. Our average number of posts is second lowest, just behind PR. Only one team, MGN, has played less turns than us.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

We cross posted. You are totally allowed to dive into the stats that are available on the saves page, like I just did.

p.s. you can look at previous SGOTM to see how chatty people are. Our group is a bit less verbose than most, but not so little that I would worry. Some groups really go all out. MGN has 16.33 posts per turn compared to our 5.86, but PR, one of the best teams, has only 5.46 posts per turn.