SGOTM 21 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

[namliaM]

With the turn into the settler you nicely commited us to this path, guess testing to settler at size 3 is now obsolete? Even while that for the moment (atleast as far as I could get it) is the superior way to go?

Atleast it cuts testing time in half or to a third, I hope it dont hurt us

1 W of the scout looks like a nice city as well, hoping there is some seafood available to feed the hills

I think we move the corn city 1N to be coastal?

How did you do those cities on the map?

 

[Ronnie1]

Test Game updated to the current conditions. Tiles may still off a bit here or there.

 

[Ronnie1]

With the turn into the settler you nicely commited us to this path, guess testing to settler at size 3 is now obsolete? Even while that for the moment (atleast as far as I could get it) is the superior way to go?

You can found city 2 On T22 starting settler at size 3?

I played it exactly as I said I was going to! I got lucky and still don't know how I got the extra coin to get to Ag a turn sooner using the camped deer starting T7 instead of T8.

How did you do those cities on the map?

Alt+x

I think we move the corn city 1N to be coastal?

I was only dotting for the Gems.

 

[Ronnie1]

I have 2 trial results to post also. Both trials were played to T81, just after researching Currency, through Mathematics, as that is kind of where whips and overflows balanced out.

Trial A
Pop = 18
Tech = Currency + 225+109 gold in the bank
Infrastructure = 2 Barracks, 4 Gran, 3 LH, 3 Library, +56 on current builds
5 workers
6 warriors
GLH built T1280BC
City 5 founded T80

Trial B
Pop = 19
Tech = Currency + 239+116 gold in the bank
Infrastructure = 1 Barracks, 4 Gran, 2 LH, 3 Library, +10 on current builds
4 workers
7 warriors
GLH built T1120BC
City 5 founded T80

 

[nocho]

Mmm, I also didn't expect you to play yet. :/

Please upload.

 

[Ronnie1]

It had been more than 24 since I posted and I think I addressed all the concerns.

I apologize if I was hasty.

Here is the upload log.

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 4000 BC to 3600 BC:


Turn 1, 3960 BC: Athens has been founded.

Turn 3, 3880 BC: The borders of Athens have expanded!

Turn 7, 3720 BC: Buddhism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 8, 3680 BC: Athens will grow to size 2 on the next turn.

Turn 9, 3640 BC: Athens has grown to size 2.
Turn 9, 3640 BC: You have discovered Agriculture!

 

[namliaM]

Can you research BW by turn 29 settling your city on T22?
Will athens be size 5 by that time?

You see every pro has its con...

 

[Ronnie1]

I'm not sure I want BW next.

City 2 ASAP is always a net gain. If you only want to test to T29, I'd be happy to test whatever you would like.

 

[Ronnie1]

We could always switch back and finish the WB first.

Here are 2 T30 saves with the 2 options. Note I did go Mining > BW, but that does not mean I believe that is the best path.

As MM pointed out, there are trade offs for everything in Civ.

 

[Sleepless]

Mmm, I also didn't expect you to play yet. :/

Please upload.

Ditto yep please upload the save. Not overly concerned what other teams will make of it.. Actually just saw the upload log so save uploaded.

Meeting Wil. Did we have automatic contact or see some of his units?

One thing that hasn't really come up yet (though I vaguely mentioned it). Another advantage of bw over pottery is we might have bronze somewhere. It will make barb defence easy if we do. Without bronze ah becomes more important. Without either could cause us some problems though some nice fogbust sites I can see.

I will have time for some more detailed attempts which I'll try not to rush through to much tomorrow.

 

[Ronnie1]

PR went BW path and researched it ~T31, from the power graph.

 

[haphazard1]

Looks like nice work, Ronnie1! We needed to move forward, I think, so this is good.

Sleepless, we started with contact with Willem. We do not actually know where he is yet, although we were told he is on our land mass.

Food is a bit scarce, isn't it? Still, that corn will be useful. And we can share the wheat for a city to work the two (thankfully food neutral) eastern gems tiles. For the Sparta site, do we want S of the lake, or SE? Given the need for a wheat-sharing city, SE is going to have massive overlap. But it would be a touch closer for easier defense, maintenance.

Moving forward I do like the Mining-BW path: chops, whipping, mine(s), might even see some copper somewhere. But we can do some more testing before we decide. No other AI contacts yet, so we should have room for another ring of cities beyond our initial three. That is reassuring -- at least it is to me.

I will get the summary posts at the start of the thread updated. Anyone want to volunteer to follow Ronnie1? Or would Ronnie1 prefer to keep playing -- these early turns do go pretty quick once we decide what we want to do.

Edit: OK, updated summary posts. I also added a section to track beg requests for the various AIs. We need to note the turn we meet each AI, and later we can note the most recent beg requests. Willem can not be begged by scenario rule, nor can any other AI we purchase secrets from.

 

[Ronnie1]

I would prefer continue if given the opportunity.

The more land that gets added to the test game, the more barbs become an issue.

Thoughts on tech path after still more testing. If we go Pottery before BW and then don't have any copper available, we might be kind of screwed. AH before Sailing > Masonry would be imperative at that point. That pushes GLH pretty far back. What about AH immediately? It gives us another great tile in Sparta. Horses are much better at both exploration and worker stealing! Without roads, horses are also much better at active defense. Given the amount of hills in the starting area, we really may want the wheel sometime soonish just to improve movement for our units.

I am not terribly concerned about tile overlap. Cities rarely get large enough that becomes an issue. I think it makes it much easier to expand with the whip because when you whip off an improved tile in one city you can often times pick it up with the other.

 

[haphazard1]

I have no problem with you playing more turns, Ronnie1. Once we decide what we actually want to do, of course.

We are seeing more land nearby (without any close AIs so far), so barbs have to be considered more of a threat. One of AH or BW would be useful, if we knew that we would get a revealed resource. I am not sure we can count on that. AH would allow us to improve the cow at Sparta, which would be a good thing. BW would allow us chopping and whipping, whether we have copper or not, and those are both very important. We can not improve any of the gems tiles without BW.

Typical civ -- I want to do everything all at once!

 

[Ronnie1]

I am confused as to why our culture graph starts on T0 like every team except PR, who looks to have founded on T1(like we did).

 

[namliaM]

Looks like nice work, Ronnie1! We needed to move forward, I think, so this is good.

Get agri done sure, I am not quite pleased with the Tenth turn
Also because of your rush, you probably missed a comment by me earlier.
We now have one food surplus and 1 beaker overflow, which we could have traded for 2 hammers and a potentially 1 turn earlier workboat, atleast in my settler at Size 3 scenario, would need testing for this one.

Applying the whip can rush out a third settler and/or worker, or should we consider building a second settler (or worker) at size 3
Going Settler > Finish workboat > Settler/Worker
Or at size four before building an MP for Athens
Settler > Finish workboat > Full workboat > Worker/settler
I tried farming the cow a bit, not to happy about that... Feels like lost turns either you end up delaying the Gem or the cow hardly gets used. AH vs BW, AH should be a quick research vs BW
Assuming we do AH, we would want BW after that to develop the Gems, this does push back pottery / Granary's by some 10 turns, which I dont think we want to do ?
AH > Pottery IMHO not a real option

I can do a test with building an additional worker from athens scenario's above later today probably, though untill BW the worker wouldnt have much to do

On barbs I am not too concerned there are bound to be AI around, each of their units roaming around should make for less Barbs, both spawn and occasionally killed

PR went BW path and researched it T31, from the power graph.

Which is Settler at size 3 with poor MM

 

[Ronnie1]

On barbs I am not too concerned there are bound to be AI around, each of their units roaming around should make for less Barbs, both spawn and occasionally killed

I disagree here some. Just with the terrain exposed so far, barb generation in the test game is much greater. I don't think any AI are close enough to settle anything we have exposed so far in the next 50 turns.

As I said before, I did not waste any turns not working the camped deer. If we switched back and finished the WB now, it would be almost exactly as if the settler were not started, only real loss would be 1 turn of WB movement.

 

[Ronnie1]

Looking over the T1 Demo screen again.

1 civ started non-coastal. 1 civ stared with only 2 land tiles. Most averaged about what we had (5-7), with a few less forests on average.

So many early choices here. Good job to BSP!

Settling city 2 south of the lake and going AH second makes for 2 very strong cities! The worker is with the settler and ready to start the pasture the turn of founding. The WB from Athens comes along a bit later and once those 2 tiles are up it is solid!

Figuring where to slot in pottery is the issue for me then. After AH, BW to get the gems going is important. Pottery after that pushes back Sailing > Masonry and the GLH.

 

[namliaM]

I got lucky and still don't know how I got the extra coin to get to Ag a turn sooner using the camped deer starting T7 instead of T8.

Read back one of my posts a few pages back, that might help explain it to you...
I also proved it would work based on a test save....

PR uploaded their save on T1 prior to settling

That fish with those plains hills looks intresting off to the NE

As I said before, I did not waste any turns not working the camped deer.

switching the 3/1 wheat for the 2/2 uncamped deer

 

[namliaM]

Settling city 2 south of the lake and going AH second makes for 2 very strong cities! The worker is with the settler and ready to start the pasture the turn of founding. The WB from Athens comes along a bit later and once those 2 tiles are up it is solid!

Wouldnt we want the mine N of athens up to aid in the workboat build?