SGOTM 22 - Fifth Element

[pigswill]

Worker instead of galley slows growth afaik and you whip 4>2 insteas of 5>3, also second city will be working pigs to speed growth to pop2.

I'll play a turn building warrior in Rome and see what happens.

edit: actually I won't play a turn because the save is paused/frozen.

 

[zbgayumn]

Do you need it unfrozen? It generally just requires hitting 'Pause' again.

 

[enKage]

I suppose someone stole his Puase Key or Function key, depending on keybord type

 

[pigswill]

Having hit various keys in sundry random combinations the game mysteriously unstuck. Moved some units, changed Rome to warrior, hit return.



Nearest visible copper is sufficiently distant not to affect plans. Earth (worker escort) promoted to Woody1, they enter the jungle. Two warriors in Antium, one on hill, one in Rome (+1 ibt).

 

[pigswill]

Nothing really to decide between turns so hit return.

Barb attacks hill warrior, dies.
Barb attacks hill warrior, dies (!).
Barb attacks Porcy, dies.
Hill warrior (aka Warrior1) gets Combat1, retires to Rome to heal (2 turns).

Rome warrior>galley. Masonry in 3. Revolt to slavery. Anarchy rules.


Warrior2 moves to hill, debates attacking barb on pig tile, 50% odds, from previous tests if barb isn't killed it will pillage pigs. Got 2 warriors in Porcy, 2 warriors in Rome (1 beaten up). Worker is cowering in Rome.

My inclination is to attack, if our warrior dies then attack with second warrior from Porcy. Move worker to riverside hill, move out warior to cover it. No new barbs have appeared yet.

 

[enKage]

Which warrior dies o_O No loses yet?
Yes, attack pig tile

 

[enKage]

If you put overflows to GW after each whips, we lose turns. (build1 whip, 1 turn GWall, build 2 whip, 1 turn GWall). Better stack overflows to save turns (whip and cancel, another whip, 1 turn GWall).

Rise to 5 on galley till max 19 hammers, then start worker when Porcy wont use pigs anymore. 2 pop worker, cancel, regrow to 4 on barracks/workboat, 2pop galley. Galley overflow goes to worker, both overflows stored goes to GWall.

If your plan is also slowbiulding GWall, then it doeasnt matter. My GW was built only by overflows and chops

 

[zbgayumn]

Yes, with no new barbs spotted yet, we are safe to attack.

The best I've been able to do on GWall is T59, so I'll let you two figure out that one.

 

[pigswill]

Finished the turn. Hilly warrior attacks pig-rustling barb and wins. No warriors lost yet but still plenty of time. Worker moves to riverside FGH, warrior moves from Rome to cover worker next turn, warrior from Porcy to cover Rome next turn while units heal.

I'm confused, bemused, baffled and generally confounded by enKage's cunning stacking-overflow plan. What turn does this complete Gwall?

If we don't need another warrior Porcy can swop to worker as soon as it hits pop2 while working FGH and pigs then whip asap. Meanwhile Rome slowbuilds Gwall (with o/f from galley and at least one chop).

I might have another go with test save deleting barbs to eliminate complications.

edit: tried emulating overflow stacking, Gwall T59. Double whip galley, 2 chops, double whip Gwall T56 (+worker from Antium/Porcy).

 

[enKage]

@pigswill
overflow stacking makes sense depending on how many turns you want to spend on slowbuilding. If in your plan is slowbuilding GW for more than 3 turns it really does not make a big difference. The only difference I can expect is maybe maintanance/supply cost of galley for few turns.

However, I suppose that we can force somehow quicker GWall by using food instead of hammers by whipping workers in Rome instead of Porcellus, didnt test it thoroughly yet

 

[pigswill]

Still don't understand overflow stacking and I'm sure I'd mess it up. Played another three turns, fairly uneventful.

2240 anarchy .

2200. We're now officially slavers! .
Saladin who may just have learned how to write requests open borders, Brennus is annoyed with him but Brennus' worst enemy is currently Darius so I agree. OB with Saladin. Rome galley 9h.

2160. Hilltop warrior survives another barbarian attack. Still a couple of barbs around but not swarming at the moment.
Porcy hits pop2 and swops to worker, working fgh and pigs, can whip worker in 4.
Stolen worker surviving trek south, reaches Porcy's borders in 5 turns.
Rome galley 17h, grows in 2. Masonry next turn.

We can whip galley now for 23of into Gwall next turn. Rome down to pop2 for one turn.

What do we research next? I'm thinking pottery for cottages to speed up research, archery next because we ned 6 archers in Rome for third city, then maybe IW then head for monarchy.

btw Saladin completed Stonehenge 2360bc.

Save uploaded, here's a copy:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Fifth_Element_SG022_BC2160_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[enKage]

Archery

 

[zbgayumn]

We can whip galley now for 23of into Gwall next turn. Rome down to pop2 for one turn.

I think it's 27 OF. 17 + 60 (whip) - 50 (galley) = 27

What do we research next? I'm thinking pottery for cottages to speed up research, archery next because we ned 6 archers in Rome for third city, then maybe IW then head for monarchy.

I'll agree with enKage. The workers will busy for the next several turns, so let's do Archery then Pottery.

It's a harder choice, but I would probably also put IW behind Monarchy. Having Praets is of limited use when our opponents are so far away.

 

[pigswill]

I reckon IW before monarchy because I think our third city should grab iron (assuming we don't have any in current borders) and we need to know where the iron is located. However this will be a few turns away so we can discuss tech path later on.

For now I'll go archery>pottery.

I think I'll send the galley exploring clockwise (heading west to start).

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Archery is fine for me as well.

Agree re exploring - that is something we need to pay attention to, although slightly less urgent given we have met everyone.

 

[pigswill]

Played a few more turns up to 1880. We have a situation....

2120. We get 37h into Gwall. Galley heads west. Stolen worker and woody1 meet barb. Swop to 100% cash.

2080. Stolen worker survives. More barbs appear (now 5 nearby). 100% research, archery in 3.

2040. Three barbs die attacking our warriors.

2000. Another barb dies. Riverside mine is finished.

1960. Archery is in. Whip worker in Porcy. Stolen worker arrives in Porcy. Start pottery.

1920. zzzz, move a bit heal a bit.

1880. Oops. Lose warrior on hill NE of Rome (barb undamaged). Lose warrior attacking hilltop barb. Kill hilltop barb with second warrior.

We haven't done badly so far. Killed thirteen barbs (+animals) and just had our first casualties. We have 2 injured warriors in Rome (1.9,0.5), 2 injured warriors in Porcy (1.7, 1.0). We have three workers waiting to chop a hill (1 in Rome, 2 in Porcy). There's a barb adjacent to it. Gwall has 93h, 9h next turn.
If we move workers this turn, chop next turn then we can whip Gwall the following turn. However the workers will need an escort and our warriors are wounded. What to do?



We could move Porcy's workers to Rome this turn, then workers can move to another hill the following turn, delays Gwall by a turn (assuming no other barbs turn up in between which can't be guaranteed).

 

[zbgayumn]

Hmm.. what would we get from whipping an Archer? I'm guessing 23 OF if we put one turn into it. That would allow us to send both Rome warriors to the hill and then we can't lose the workers even if one dies.

I'm just blurting out an idea. I don't know if it's a good one.

 

[enKage]

Just a question - why we dont have a warrior fortified 2SE from Rome?And didnt had any fortified 2N from Rome? AFAIR I mentioned that we nned this 2 position guarded

Whipping and archer is OK with overflow to another archer, but in Porcy. We need 6 anyway soon and we can get archers in 2 turns.

I cannot say any more without save game

 

[pigswill]

Reason for no fortified warriors in those positions if that we have had them, they've got beaten up and I retreated them to heal before they got killed by the next barb. Barbs have certainly been more active in the real game than our test.

Our warriors can't do much until they're healed, no immediate replacements. I suppose we could build and whip a warrior in Rome instead of an archer, more overflow into Gwall (30+9-15=24?) which is probably better than straight whipping Gwall (15h/pop iirc).

 

[pigswill]

Whipping warrior actually gives same hammers to Gwall as whipping Gwall, it does give us an extra warrior which would be useful short term but potentially adds 10 turns of whip misery if we whip twice. It doesn't actually speed up Gwall production and we still have to wait two turns by which time existing warriors should be healed.

On balance I'm leaning towards waiting for existing warriors to heal, move workers to Rome this turn and hope a one turn delay isn't significant.

Here's the latest save....
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Fifth_Element_SG022_BC1880_01.CivBeyondSwordSave