SGOTM 22 - TTfkapr

[yyeah]

I wouldn't build any more archers, our unit upkeep costs are shooting through the roof. Next turn the archers from Rome can be spread across the empire and that's more than enough. Horse could put one turn hammers into barracks (or walls if we fear DoW from Brennus), then build worker in 6 turns. No need to keep it growing without improvements. I wouldn't finish that archer in Rome now either. The best thing to do with the hammers is probably to put into aqueduct until Alpha is online, then build spies.

Yea i allso noticed that we have amount of archers.

 

[Gumbolt]

We need 10 units for 5th city. We could delete some warriors but even they have uses.

Fish city. Gran whip 175bc then galley.
Rome aqueduct till spies.
Horse worker.

After alphabet 0% science. A lot of these techs we can steal.

2 scientists in Rome?

Keep your thoughts coming.

 

[yyeah]

Yes i think we should run 2GS constantly in Rome after s8.

I think we arent in a hurry with this 5th city iam at 175AD and have 1st Pretorian out and few spies.
Settling 5th without calendar is not good idea.
About Horse, i bulid there galley, then spy another spy ( was working 3h tile) at pop 4 whiped worker in to spy.
So we can have 2 spies from there heading to troyan. In Iron i bulid 1 spy and choop another 1.
So this galley can take 1 more spy from Iron.
But geez galley have 11 turns to get there ;/.
This is though. Everything is taking so long.

I Rome i was bulding Aqueduct all time, and chopped 1 wm2 Pret.

At fish whip grenary at 175BC, overflow in to LH at s4 whip worker overflow in to barraks and choop prets.

Idk everything is takeing so long for me.

Another thing about tech path do we want Lit, Music after Cuarancy.

 

[yyeah]

When you can steal something if you bulid spies in capitol ?
I can steal at 325AD. Without any bonuses.

Edit.
Now 1st Pret out at 100AD and can steal at 250AD( 2 spies in place another 2 comming).
Edit 2.
Btw some1 ruined my life by promoting Paul to C2 .
Why you did that do we have other 5exp warrior ?

We lacking of workers and we are at war.
Easiest way to get some workers is settle GG in 5 exp warrior promote him to WM3, Morale and upgrade to Pret., and then C1 Medic1,March, Medic 2 Medic 3 ( or skip march).

Nvm we have GG settled so we can bulid 1 more warrior if we dont have any.
Paul had 7exp, when you settle GG in 5 exp unti you miss 1 exp to get another promo.

 

[elitetroops]

Paul was promoted after first defensive battle when he was wounded in Fish city and Darius had 5 units that could attack the next turn. Without promotion he'd likely be dead by now. He fought one or two more battles after that to get to 7 XP. I'd prefer to use a 2 move unit for super medic anyway and give morale as 5th promotion if available.

 

[yyeah]

so its ok i understand now sry.

Yes i want super medic but super medic with WM3. This Pretorian can grab a lot of exp harasing Darius and we can get him to M3 this way. Giving him Morale now is a lot safer for him. Allso he can grab a lot of workers for us.

I played couple of times this game up to around 300 AD and to be honest i dont c any reason to go full out without cuirassiers.


For now best option witch i tested is.
Capitol
sw in to Aqueduct ,spy after alpha, at size 8 2GS, worker after 2nd farm 1 forest choop.
Horse
sw in to galley after galley, spy, at s4 whip worker
Fish
whip granary in to LH/Barracks at s4 whip worker
Iron
Granary/LH after alpha spy, worker improove Iron road choop spy.

Tech Currancy then mistycyzm Poly at 0%

5th city around 300ad Fish can whip settler at size 5.

 

[elitetroops]

Did you test galley in fish instead? I built it there in my earlier tests, but in those I also chopped a forest into granary, so hammer situation was very different... Maybe worker could put a chop in galley and horse could build second worker right away at pop 3? A galley from fish could get spies to Trojan a lot faster.

Btw. test game lacks religion and culture in Fish.

 

[Gumbolt]

Sorry not had much time tonight. Got back late from work and not eaten yet.

Lots of ideas here. I think we need to gain direction here before we continue. Some testing might be useful now.

I like 3rd worker.
I think galley from fish is more sensible given the location.
We need to test effect of the new holy city on cost of stealing techs. Would we really wait the full 5 turns here?

At present going with praets could be some way off. Would almost certainly need pults too. The danger going war mode 50:50 here is we can't capture the cities. We need to wipe out AI quickly and not leave large areas for other Ai to take over.

Remember Rome with a settled GG will be great for units.

 

[yyeah]

I will test it now.
But i can tell you 2 things right away.
horse grow in 2 turns bulding now worker is kind of unefficient.
our GSpy cant be in trojan faster ( dont know if theres a diference beetween distance) i meen this 2 spies from galleys are able to steal tech in same turn when iam infiltrating city.I just move them out of galley on this forested tile SE from trojan and galley goes around. We dont loose stationary points if we move spies in or out from galley.

Or maybe better can you do it in your way and in mine then we compere saves ?.

Edit:
I made something like this. 250AD when i can ifiltrate city/steal teach.

 

[elitetroops]

Horse grows in one turn. I meant starting worker next turn after growth. (Latest test game is 225BC, real game is 200BC)

GSpy can infiltrate any Arabian city, doesn't make a difference which. Should go reveals Sal's cities before infiltration.

I'll try to do some tests tomorrow if I can find time.

 

[yyeah]

GSpy can infiltrate any Arabian city, doesn't make a difference which. Should go reveals Sal's cities before infiltration.

Right i think iam confused coz of this test good point.

Edit.
Got something like this.
Now we can steal.
1 less worker but we can steal ealier and get settler.

This galley from fish looks better.
If we get GS and if we can steal CoL right away probably we can bulb same turn.
Lots of if, but last thing waht i want to see is that GS is born and some1 discovered Taoism befor us.

 

[Gumbolt]

Spies on galleys. In my test game they did not get the stationary bonus asleep on galley but in the city. I also got no bonus for the holy city as it is not Sal's state religion? We are missing some techs to be able to steal the larger techs. I really don't like wasting spies on poly, PH and other such techs.

We would need currency to steal COL. That or PH.

So do we prioritise tech stealing over war for now?? Or send a stack out and then steal techs?? Or try a mix of both? Ideally we want construction for pults for war.

 

[yyeah]

I really don't like wasting spies on poly, PH and other such techs.

Stealing small techs is not an option we can reserch small techs like mistycyzm meditation/poly/PH with just 2GS and Rep and slider at 0%.

About war cats and prets its kind of late for this and is too slow when we have our troops out this will be 500 AD. Better tech for Curasiers i think.
But it doesnt meen that we cant get out few prets like 4 or 5 and just couse some trubles i meen steal workers get some exp slow him down a little bit it doesnt cos us too much. And if we can stel enough workers in decent time maybe we can settle 6th city in jungle who know it may be worth it. Another city to whip from.

I test it to MT today want to see how does it palyout.

 

[yyeah]

Ok getting bonus from holy city wont be possible.
Saladins fav civic is Theocracy so we cant spread our rel to him.
Only way is to Influance civic.

 

[elitetroops]

You get the holy city bonus if you own the holy city to the religion in the city. If he spreads Christianity to us and we adapt that as our state religion, we should get some bonus, but I don't hink it's worth it. For best religious bonus we'd have to found Taoism, spread it to Trojan and switch to taoism ourselves. Not really an option.

If we have spies available that can stand around for the stationary bonus, then stealing a tech like polytheism is still cost efficient compared to teching it ourselves. Even if we tech it with scientists at 0%, it's still >100 beakers away from some other tech, which we could get for way less EP and some 10-20% chance of losing 40 hammers.

 

[shulec]

Ok getting bonus from holy city wont be possible.
Saladins fav civic is Theocracy so we cant spread our rel to him.
Only way is to Influance civic.

Try this: Walk Tao Missionary to Trojan, gift to Sal. Sal spreads Tao to Trojan. Shazam!

 

[shulec]

Spies on galleys. In my test game they did not get the stationary bonus asleep on galley but in the city. I also got no bonus for the holy city as it is not Sal's state religion? We are missing some techs to be able to steal the larger techs. I really don't like wasting spies on poly, PH and other such techs.

We would need currency to steal COL. That or PH.

So do we prioritise tech stealing over war for now?? Or send a stack out and then steal techs?? Or try a mix of both? Ideally we want construction for pults for war.

If a spy sits in a galley five turns in Trojan, he gets the 50% bonus once unloaded from the galley.

If we have the holy city for our state religion, and that religion is in Trojan, but Saladin is running a different state religion, we get the bonus. -40% EP.

Our plans will be largely determined by what techs the AI have (alpha) and how strongly our need is to defend our cities.

 

[yyeah]

I didnt play it until MT but far enough that i can estimate date it couldbe around 1100AD.
WE would have to have Gunpowder allso but Saladin will go Guilds at some point so Gunpowder shouldnt be a problem we dont have to reserch Edu.
Its late date but this map is preety big, with 1 units this take a while too.
Allso our oponents are ahead right now not too much, but what i supose, if they didnt went for mids we have better economy so maybe we can catch them up with just better military techs.

But this is just a thoughts, for now hard to say anythigh situation should be more clear when we get Alpha and GP.

Good point Shulec i forgot about this "exploit".

 

[Gumbolt]

1100ad seems quite late to start our wars. We would only have 5-6? cities to whip cuirs. Of these most would be weak for whipping. My concern is Ai like the celts currently have 3-4 silver and other resources hooked up. They will be no slouch tech wise. In 1000 years the Ai will spam a lot more cities. Unless we can settle a 5th and 6th city to help spam units?

Of course we will have to raze pretty much every city whilst the Ai continue to expand. We are fast getting to a situation where we struggle to start any war here. We also face issue that there is very little 2mp terrain for cuirs. Better to build galleons and attack from sea swiftly?

In terms of stealing techs might be better to build another city and have 5-6 pre settled spies. hmmm. I will have to retry the spy trick with galley. It would tie up the galley for 5 turns.

Would it be better to just spam praets and phants to try and conquer entire map? hmmmm. At present I can see a lot of resources going into spies. 2 galleys, 4-5 spies? The capital will likely spawn a second Gspy here too.

 

[yyeah]

1100AD is quite late but what you say then about 500AD Construcion ?. ( 6 ciites strong for whipping)
You see this is like my point that everything is late and its hard to choose the moust efficient play. I think that we should attack ealier but no full out, i meen some prets some cats but not that many so it wont slow us down significantly.

Idk about galeons i could take longer for reserch them then MT.
But nvm we need to see anyway what GP we get if we cant bulb Philo MT will be a lot less atractive anyway.

About settleing conquering/keeping new cities what do you think about Globe theatre in Rome ?
Is it worth it to reserch drama, bulid 6 theatres and GT on top of this ...

I think that Rome can grow preety fast so pop wont be a huge issue will be, it is worth considering.