SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

With a minor correction for the 90% research slider, the only way I can see Hatty reaching 117 in the middle of IW is if she has a second settled GS. ANy other possibilities?
 
Nice work so far, LC. Pedal to the metal! Or is that petal to the medal? haha

That's all I've got (from the fringe of Civilization)
 
LowtherCastle said:
With a minor correction for the 90% research slider, the only way I can see Hatty reaching 117 in the middle of IW is if she has a second settled GS. ANy other possibilities?
Click to expand...

If she's at her happy cap in Thebes she'll run extra scientists instead of fish.
 
Will we lose our resource networks when we DoW Hatty?

The question is, what happened between T55 and T56 that connected us to Mehmed, Darius, and Gandhi? Did Sal connect the Red Sea to the Arabian Sea? Did Stalin connect to the Black Sea?

We already know that Mehmed settled his second city at the nearby horse-1e on the river, connecting the Black and Arabian seas. We also know that Stalin settled at Moscow-6s on the Black Sea. Saladin doesn't seem to have any likely connection to the Arabian Sea. But...on the T55 save the tile at Moscow-4s shows a road 1t to completion, completed on T56. :cool:

Is it my wishful thinking or will we keep our resource trades when we DoW Hatty?

Here's the curious question. Why did we not lose our resource trades with Stalin when we DoWed Fred? Hamburg is blocking the pathway at Sweden-S. Is there a coastal route around Sweden or what? Or has Stalin defogged Fred's tiles and that's enough?

Another question: IF we have a resource trade and it gets severed by a DoW, will the affected AI redo the trade as soon as we re-establish teh connection, or will he be POed for a while and refuse?
 
I think Alexa has 25h or 26h in a build. Either that's a WC or preferably a granary. We'll find out shortly. We can attack Alexa 2t sooner with 2 units. That would be T67 DoW. Capture T68. We get excellent odds with both attacks, assuming it stays WC and warrior. If we're lily-livered pate de foie gras, we could wait one turn and have 2 HA amphibious back-ups.

We don't have to commit to anything right now of course. The above doesn't alter my original MM. We monitor Alexa's production.
 
Open Questions

1. What do we tech next? ZPV is suggesting Math-Currency.
2. How do we handle Hatty not having a third city? Kill her off and we lose her techs forever. (Now I bet you wish we'd captured Hamburg with a chariot...)
 
LowtherCastle said:
Will we lose our resource networks when we DoW Hatty?

The question is, what happened between T55 and T56 that connected us to Mehmed, Darius, and Gandhi? Did Sal connect the Red Sea to the Arabian Sea? Did Stalin connect to the Black Sea?

We already know that Mehmed settled his second city at the nearby horse-1e on the river, connecting the Black and Arabian seas. We also know that Stalin settled at Moscow-6s on the Black Sea. Saladin doesn't seem to have any likely connection to the Arabian Sea. But...on the T55 save the tile at Moscow-4s shows a road 1t to completion, completed on T56. :cool:

Is it my wishful thinking or will we keep our resource trades when we DoW Hatty?

Here's the curious question. Why did we not lose our resource trades with Stalin when we DoWed Fred? Hamburg is blocking the pathway at Sweden-S. Is there a coastal route around Sweden or what? Or has Stalin defogged Fred's tiles and that's enough?

Another question: IF we have a resource trade and it gets severed by a DoW, will the affected AI redo the trade as soon as we re-establish teh connection, or will he be POed for a while and refuse?
Click to expand...

Only one of us needs a trade connection (i.e. peace with Fred/Hatty) to do resource trades.
The AI should happily re-trade anything that gets cut off by circumstances or shenanigans. It only remembers if we cancel trades at another player's behest.

Re: 2HA attack? I'm happy to leave that one as a game-time decision. Make sure to see whether there are any possible reinforcements by road or almost complete builds first though.
 
LowtherCastle said:
Open Questions

1. What do we tech next? ZPV is suggesting Math-Currency.
2. How do we handle Hatty not having a third city? Kill her off and we lose her techs forever. (Now I bet you wish we'd captured Hamburg with a chariot...)
Click to expand...

#2: We never had her techs, unless we're talking about getting her to Friendly. EDIT: or vassalising her.
We can't get enough war success to merit an interesting tech for peace, and she won't trade them until the other AIs start to research them and they're available for trade anyway.

I suppose there's the stealing option, but frankly that seems like more trouble than it's worth. CoL is the only thing directly on our beeline (unless you count Theology, which I don't), but that alone is not worth the cost of setting up a gift city and spy.
 
I'm on board with Math next. It looks to be about 9t, turbo-charges our war engine, and Alexa will resist for 3t the increase our tech rate about 75% instantly.
 
Sorry for being so useless these past couple weeks. I'm back in town now and hope to catch up until tomorrow.

Save looks great. :goodjob:
 
ZPV said:
I suppose there's the stealing option, but frankly that seems like more trouble than it's worth. CoL is the only thing directly on our beeline (unless you count Theology, which I don't), but that alone is not worth the cost of setting up a gift city and spy.
Click to expand...
Yeah, maybe you're right. She'll probably have 1-2 more techs by the time we get Thebes. Monarchy, meh. IW we'll get in trade. CoL would be nice considering we might want to run some castes sooner than later.

I see tech stealing like WT, as an ad-hoc procedure. For instance, we capture Lisbon, insert a spy, get 1t culture in, gift to Hatty, steal CoL, re-capture. All it costs us is the hammers in the spy, a dummy city (= Hamburg), and revolting to Christianity. The eps are less than the tech cost.

I guess we leave that as a game-time decision too. Hamburg is still easy enough to capture, though I assume we'll have to run through Fredburg's culture to get there now. Hatty will CF almost instantly if we have 0-1 losses, so CFing long enough to gift Hamburg wouldn't delay Thebes, I don't think.
 
We've been so afraid Hatty will tech monarchy, feudal, that we aren't planning for the obvious: she'll tech aes, lit, music eventually, and more likely Math, calendar-- all before Feudal.

I think the best thing to do now that HBR is done is EP slider. We know for sure we steal CoL. We are now hoping for Math. If she gets it before we DoW t69 then we should see if we can get it before t69, but I suppose there is no way to get a spy out and stationary for 5t. We'd probably have to steal it after we CF (after Alexandria). As far as which city. We could do CEB or Furcity gift to erase their whip anger. Recapture the same turn we DoW.

LowtherCastle said:
She pops her third GS on T75*, settles it T76.
Click to expand...

Not a chance. She will bulb Philo :drool:
Another thing we have to steal.

WastinTime said:
Theology? You mean free Apostolic Palace
Click to expand...

Yea, in our game, it will be built T458 like LC said, but I'm just sayin' it's another advantage other teams would have by waiting. fyi, was just making conversation. I have no interest in letting her have the Glib for long. However, there is the Philo thing. That's kinda huge. I'd be tempted to go with the delayed 6 HA plan if it got her to bulb Philo (and of course she's not on track for feudalism.)

Monarchy. Agree we don't steal that. It's easy to get for free from someone else.
 
@WT: I've been working on the assumption that our goal should be to get the many visible triple-food sites under our control ASAP.

Capturing Alexandria and Thebes first is paying enough lip service to research (and is also convenient because it might be harder later - I wasn't convinced until we saw how weak Alexandria's units were). If we capture them early, we're not really constrained by research any more - I feel like we're in danger of metaphorically double-bulbing Education without having 6 cities for Oxford if we prioritise research over expansion any more than that.

If we can work out some shenanigans with Hamburg or something similar and it doesn't delay our conquest, I might be game for it. Risking erasing the granary in one of our current core cities? Too much lost production for my tastes.
 
If we don't mind whipping CEB/FC to death, we could 2whip a spy to get him there. Math costs about 3t of 100% eps instead of 8t of 100% science. We could go 0% this turn, then 100% eps on Hatty and we'd see her research (I'm pretty sure). If we're planning to steal at least one tech mo matter what, then we' have nothing to lose and it would only slow down teching Math by hand by 1t.

xpost
 
You can never lose The Granary or any buildings except culture buildings as long as you have more culture in the city
 
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