SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

[ZPV]

Besides the much higher failure chance (>30%), another problem with a double steal is that we would have to tech PH (for CoL) and run the EP slider some more before we can tech Currency. Stealing only CoL on t78 should work out much better. We would finish Currency just in time for the CoL steal.

We could have 4.5 HAs and 1 axe or chariot landing near Thebes on t75. That's probably still too early. There is no guarantee that the settler will leave the city immediately and not wait until Thebes finishes another defender, is there? Are we willing to delay the Fredburg attack for earlier Thebes and Athens?

Athens is due to pop (and settle) a second great prophet on t76. Definitely higher priority than Fredburg IMO.

I'm still happy with the single steal.

Edit: IIRC the settler can leave with a single escort, but we need to wait 2 turns before it's escort is out of range.

 

[WastinTime]

T69 1240BC
We can see inside Hatty's cities. Thebes is building a settler(10t)

Why are we thinking Thebes will finish a settler any time soon? And why would we think she will even continue to build it with so many turns left? In wartime, won't she switch off it? then once we get a CF maybe return to the settler. It would be sometime after T80, right? So let's focus on Alex and/or Fred.

 

[WastinTime]

So we ought to be able to steal CoL and keep her out of slavery again.

I would chase down those workers and try to snag them before the CF. When are we expecting a CF?

 

[Pollina]

Why are we thinking Thebes will finish a settler any time soon? And why would we think she will even continue to build it with so many turns left? In wartime, won't she switch off it? then once we get a CF maybe return to the settler. It would be sometime after T80, right? So let's focus on Alex and/or Fred.

She was working some artists instead of the fish on t69, but is now working all her fish and two mines. At the beginning of T71 (before we stole Math), we could see that she is 3 turns from finishing the settler (68h63h invested, 15 fhpt with 3). We are not threatening her city. I don't know what would make her switch out of building a settler.

 

[ZPV]

She was working some artists instead of the fish on t69, but is now working all her fish and two mines. At the beginning of T71 (before we stole Math), we could see that she is 3 turns from finishing the settler (68h invested, 15 fhpt with 3). We are not threatening her city. I don't know what would make her switch out of building a settler.

So if we CF next turn and give her a health resource we can bring the settler forward a turn and remove the overflow?

 

[Pollina]

Sorry, she has 63h in the settler.

 

[Pollina]

I would chase down those workers and try to snag them before the CF.

Do you have a good plan for that? I'm not sure how to best balance worker stealing, healing the injured HA, pillaging cottages(?) and scouting Athens.

 

[Pollina]

Athens is due to pop (and settle) a second great prophet on t76.

Sweet. But that means that we shouldn't sneak attack Athens before t77. Would he settle the GP while we are threatening Athens?

CoL may come too late to switch him into Caste before the war (t78). We would have to give him Writing, Math, Currency (t78), CoL (t79). That would push our Athens attack to t81.

Maybe this could work out if Hatty settles her 2nd city quickly, so that we could capture Thebes on t79 while we are already at war for the CoL steal.

So many ifs...

 

[Mitchum]

So many ifs...

Is there any plan over the next few turns that still keeps all of our options open? Or do we have to pick one and go for it now?

It would be good to advance a few turns, get eyes on Thebes again so we know the timing of the settler so we can plan out the future Egyptian and Greek wars.

 

[ZPV]

Sweet. But that means that we shouldn't sneak attack Athens before t77. Would he settle the GP while we are threatening Athens?

CoL may come too late to switch him into Caste before the war (t78). We would have to give him Writing, Math, Currency (t78), CoL (t79). That would push our Athens attack to t81.

Maybe this could work out if Hatty settles her 2nd city quickly, so that we could capture Thebes on t79 while we are already at war for the CoL steal.

So many ifs...

I've done some more looking at the settler stacking code.
The AI_City_Defence units can join a settler if there are 2 total city defence units, but only in the ancient era.
It takes 3 defenders (and the AI is likely to build another city defence unit right away) before one can join the settler in the classical era.
It won't form a settler stack at all, if the city is in danger (3 tile range by land).

Alex will settle the great prophet, even if we're on his doorstep. The only alternative is if he has a good tech to lightbulb (i.e. first to a religion, or it costs 895 beakers or more). Rereading the logs, it should pop IBT t76-7, and he'll settle it t77-8 so the earliest we can capture the city is t78.

So that means Hatty will have a finished settler on t74 , probably have a finished archer on t75 or 76 (11 overflow from the settler which costs 97h), walk that turn, and settle t78ish.


So I agree, we can go straight for Thebes when we steal CoL, and then turn around for Caste System Athens. Unless we see he's got no defenders (can we put the warrior back on the boat this turn so he can scout Athens t73 please?)...

 

[Pollina]

Hatty is in the Medieval era (Theo). Does that make a difference?

 

[ZPV]

Hatty is in the Medieval era (Theo). Does that make a difference?

Nope. +1 defender for coastal cities in the Renaissance and afterwards.
(Ancient era = 0, not 1, right?)

 

[Pollina]

PPP t71-?

General:
- try to steal a worker if possible, pillage Alexa-E cottage??
- CF
- trade Math for Mono (Joao)? Or wait for Currency?
- peek into Athens
- t78: steal CoL, DoW
- t79 (ideally) attack Thebes (5HA+1axe)
- capture Athens first if Hatty doesn't settle her city in time
- prepare Fredburg attack

City builds:

Paris:
t72: HA
t73: chariot
t75: HA
t76: HA
t79: HA

FC:
t77: galley (HA??)
t78: archer

Cows:
t72: HA
t73: axe
t75: HA
t76: axe
t78: HA

Stone:
t77: barracks??
t78: HA

 

[WastinTime]

looks good. Let's roll a turn or 2.

 

[Mitchum]

+1 on the PPP.

I was debating the barracks in Stone but I think it makes sense because once that city gets a stone quarry, it should start cranking out units pretty well.

Is the archer in FC for an MP unit? Or is it to retake the city after the gift?

 

[Pollina]

Is the archer in FC for an MP unit? Or is it to retake the city after the gift?

FC can generate 75h until we give it away on t78. I'd like to build another galley, so that we can send reinforcements to Athens if needed. That leaves 25 hammers I don't want to waste. Hence the archer. There are other options like axe+spy, HA+archer, spy/axe+lighthouse, etc.

 

[ZPV]

I think I agree - the extra galley will be useful because we have two more Mediterranean targets after Athens, plus Edirne which we need for MoM.

Yes please for Maths-Mono.

How are we looking for worker turns? Is it possible to build a road to Joao? He's presumably next after Fred on the home front.

I'm happy enough with the unit composition, but after the ones you have planned I don't think we'll need more axes.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[ZPV]

Stone city's purpose includes a lot of cottage growing for Paris, so can it skip the Barracks? Paris builds 5xp units so it needs to keep up the production for a while.

I'm happy for you to play when you're ready. Good luck!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Pollina]

Stone city's purpose includes a lot of cottage growing for Paris, so can it skip the Barracks? Paris builds 5xp units so it needs to keep up the production for a while.

I'm not a huge fan of the barracks either. I would love to do 2 HAs instead, but I don't think that would work. Maybe something like t77 HA, t78 chariot, t81 HA. Need to double check SQ's micro anyway when I get home. Maybe I can think of something better.

 

[WastinTime]

Stone city's purpose includes a lot of cottage growing for Paris, so can it skip the Barracks? Paris builds 5xp units so it needs to keep up the production for a while.

I'm happy for you to play when you're ready. Good luck!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

But stonecity has stone and horse and sometimes cow. Plus the fish means it can grow and whip a lot. That's a lot of production. Seems like a rax will pay off, but certainly, this early, we have to consider a couple of quick HAs instead. I was hoping we'd be able to quickly snag a Fred city, but I'm reading that he had a huge military build-up. We missed our shot at getting Hamburg with a chariot when it was defended by only one warrior/Axe.
I was going to take a look and see if we can get something like Fredburg in the t70's--before we're ready to load up on the boats for one of the big cities.