SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

[Pollina]

I'm going to play in ~30 min.

We won't have to decide on rax or not in SQ until t74.

 

[Pollina]

Playing...

Continued from this post

t71
- 100% research on Currency

t72
- WT was right. Hatty did switch to another build in Thebes (13h). She's still running Caste and won't talk. Thebes works 3 mines and all 4 fish.
- I had "Show enemy moves" checked, but did not see her workers move. Not sure where they are. Probably at Thebes-2W2S. Pillage cottage for 6g. Injured HA heals in Alexa.
- Joao adopts OR. That means he won't switch into another Civic (Caste) until t98, unless we bribe him.
- C1 Axe moves out of Fredburg which is defended by archer, woody1 spear and warrior.
- Athens seems to have finished another build. Looks like Alex is still playing OCC. Our warrior can look into Athens next turn.
- I'm keeping our options for an earlier-than-planned sneak attack on Fredburg open. At least until next turn, maybe t74.
- Joao gives us Mono for Math.

t73
- Hatty has 23h into her build. Might be a war chariot. Or a galley? One of her workers is chopping a jungle hill 2S of Thebes.
- She still won't talk.
- Athens is still only defended by a single archer and 2 roaming warriors.
- forest grows 2S? of Paris

I'm uploading, so that we can solidify our war plans.

Done

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1160 BC to 1080 BC:

Turn 71, 1160 BC: Paris has grown to size 7.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Joao II will trade Monotheism
Turn 71, 1160 BC: You have discovered Mathematics!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Upon completing the mission the Spy 1 (FurCity) has returned safely to Paris.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Deal Canceled: Open Borders to Hatshepsut for Open Borders
Turn 71, 1160 BC: You have declared war on Hatshepsut!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut refuses to talk.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: You have captured FurCity!!!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) (6.00) vs Hatshepsut's War Chariot (7.50)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Combat Odds: 25.1%
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot has defeated Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga)!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Your Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) has died trying to attack a War Chariot!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) (7.20) vs Hatshepsut's War Chariot (6.22)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Combat Odds: 71.0%
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot is hit for 20 (63/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot is hit for 20 (43/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot is hit for 20 (23/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot has defeated Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris)!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Your Horse Archer 2 (Paris) has died trying to attack a War Chariot!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 4 (Paris) (7.20) vs Hatshepsut's Warrior (5.20)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Combat Odds: 80.0%
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Plot Defense: +60%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 4 (Paris) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's Warrior is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's Warrior is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 4 (Paris) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's Warrior is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's Warrior is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 4 (Paris) is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's Warrior is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 4 (Paris) has defeated Hatshepsut's Warrior!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Your Horse Archer 4 (Paris) has destroyed a Warrior!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 3 (Cow-E-Bunga) (6.00) vs Hatshepsut's War Chariot (1.72)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot is hit for 22 (1/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 3 (Cow-E-Bunga) has defeated Hatshepsut's War Chariot!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Your Horse Archer 3 (Cow-E-Bunga) has destroyed a War Chariot!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: You have captured Alexandria!!!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut refuses to talk.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: You are the worst enemy of Frederick.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Stalin.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin, Kublai Khan, Mao Zedong.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut is the worst enemy of Joao II, Alexander.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Darius I.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Mao Zedong is the worst enemy of Gandhi.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Alexander is the worst enemy of Hatshepsut.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Joao II will trade Monotheism
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Churchill will trade Fish
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Gandhi will trade Crab
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Mehmed II will trade Fish
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Joao II will trade Fish
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Stalin will trade Cow, Fish
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Cow-E-Bunga.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Cow-E-Bunga will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: You have trained a Horse Archer in Paris. Work has now begun on a Chariot.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Joao II adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Stalin has founded Yakutsk in a distant land.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Stalin has founded Vladivostok in a distant land.

Turn 72, 1120 BC: Paris can hurry Chariot for 2⇴ with 16ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 37 turns.
Turn 72, 1120 BC: Cow-E-Bunga has grown to size 3.
Turn 72, 1120 BC: Gandhi won't trade Crab
Turn 72, 1120 BC: You have plundered 6ℴ from the Cottage!
Turn 72, 1120 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Cow-E-Bunga.
Turn 72, 1120 BC: Paris will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 72, 1120 BC: Stone Quarry will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 72, 1120 BC: You have discovered Monotheism!
Turn 72, 1120 BC: A Forest has grown near Paris!

Turn 73, 1080 BC: Paris has grown to size 6.
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Stone Quarry has grown to size 3.
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Churchill.
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Stalin won't trade Cow

t73 continued
- We DoW Fred and capture his worker. Warrior moves 1E.
- Alex has 273 gold in his treasury thanks to his settled Prophet. I hope he will trade some of it when we get Currency.

t74
- Fred's spear kills our warrior. Spear is at 55HP according to the combat log. Munich is only defended by a single archer.
- HA loses at 80% (I am pretty good at losing 70-80% fights if you haven't noticed.) Axe kills red lined archer and captures Munich Friedrichsburg Fredburg
- Hatty is willing to talk. She finished a war chariot in Thebes and is now back to building the settler. That's at least what the EP screen tells us. She's not working her mines and working artists instead, which may delay the settler.

save uploaded

Spoiler :

Turn 73, 1080 BC: You have declared war on Frederick!
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Frederick refuses to talk.
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Your Axeman 2 (Cow-E-Bunga) has destroyed a Worker!
Turn 73, 1080 BC: You have captured a Worker
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Cow-E-Bunga will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Frederick's Spearman (4.00) vs Napoleon's Warrior (2.50)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Combat Odds: 95.6%
Turn 73, 1080 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Napoleon's Warrior is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Frederick's Spearman is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Napoleon's Warrior is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Frederick's Spearman is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Napoleon's Warrior is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Frederick's Spearman is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Napoleon's Warrior is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Frederick's Spearman has defeated Napoleon's Warrior!
Turn 73, 1080 BC: While defending, your Warrior was destroyed by a German Spearman!

Turn 74, 1040 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Cow-E-Bunga!
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Cow-E-Bunga has grown to size 4.
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Cow-E-Bunga can hurry Horse Archer for 2⇴ with 32ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 44 turns.
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Alexandria will be pacified on the next turn.
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Hatshepsut is willing to negotiate.
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Gandhi.
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Stalin.
Turn 74, 1040 BC: The borders of FurCity are about to expand.
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Construction, Meditation, Priesthood, Theology
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Hatshepsut
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 6 (Paris) (7.20) vs Frederick's Archer (6.00)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Combat Odds: 73.0%
Turn 74, 1040 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 6 (Paris) is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 6 (Paris) is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 6 (Paris) is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 6 (Paris) is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 6 (Paris) is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 6 (Paris) is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Frederick's Archer has defeated Napoleon's Horse Archer 6 (Paris)!
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Your Horse Archer 6 (Paris) has died trying to attack a Archer!
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Napoleon's Axeman 2 (Cow-E-Bunga) (5.00) vs Frederick's Archer (0.96)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 74, 1040 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Napoleon's Axeman 2 (Cow-E-Bunga) has defeated Frederick's Archer!
Turn 74, 1040 BC: Your Axeman 2 (Cow-E-Bunga) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 74, 1040 BC: You have captured Munich!!!

 

[ZPV]

Well played, Pollina!

Without that axe, Munich doesn't look so threatening.
I almost think we should steal Fred's worker this turn, leave our warrior where it is to draw out a spearman attack, and attack across the river next turn with 3 HAs, a chariot, and the worker-stealing axeman.

Since Hatty isn't building us a settler after all, this might be something to do while we wait. It looks like a unit though. +10hpt is unlikely with OR for a building.
Our HA in Egyptian territory can move 2S this turn, and then onto the stone next turn, and trap Hatty's second worker. The sugar has 1 turn of road built, so there should be a worker there.

Alex isn't working any of his seafood (Rival worst crop yield = 8). Anyone got any idea why not?

 

[WastinTime]

Well done. So Hatty should switch back to the settler if we CF. I assume we'll do that at the first opportunity--before she can finish whatever she's building. I agree we leave her alone for a little while.

 

[Pollina]

Without that axe, Munich doesn't look so threatening.
I almost think we should steal Fred's worker this turn, leave our warrior where it is to draw out a spearman attack, and attack across the river next turn with 3 HAs, a chariot, and the worker-stealing axeman.

I like that plan.

Since Hatty isn't building us a settler after all, this might be something to do while we wait. It looks like a unit though. +10hpt is unlikely with OR for a building.
Our HA in Egyptian territory can move 2S this turn, and then onto the stone next turn, and trap Hatty's second worker. The sugar has 1 turn of road built, so there should be a worker there.

We see that Hatty is working 2 PH mines. So definitely no building.

I can try to trap the worker. If we are greedy, we could move the other HA out of Alexa next turn to try to trap and capture both workers. It can reach that desert hill SW of Thebes in two moves. Could be a dangerous move if Hatty builds a war chariot. Is there any chance that Thebes would switch to building replacement workers instead of finishing the settler if we steal too many workers?

We could just ignore the workers for now and let them keep improving our future territory, since they can't really do anything for us until we capture Thebes. Earlier CF means earlier settler, I would think.

Alex isn't working any of his seafood (Rival worst crop yield = 8). Anyone got any idea why not?

That's curious. Maybe there's another gems hill SE of Athens? But then again, he's teching super slowly, so probably not.

 

[WastinTime]

we should steal Fred's worker this turn, leave our warrior where it is to draw out a spearman attack, and attack across the river next turn with 3 HAs, a chariot, and the worker-stealing axeman.

This does sound good. Hold on, let me do some testing.

 

[WastinTime]

I did some testing and we should move the warrior E.

This should mean the city empties down to 1 archer. It did in my test.
The 25% fortified warrior on a hill with river crossing, and in neutral land could be ignored.
Moving E threatens the worker and enters his culture.
Fred still has to cross a river to attack us and cannot return (no road).

 

[BSPollux]

Important detail:

There is a naming mistake on the sign telling you you found "the Orient". Somewhere between map version I changed it, but that change didn't get carried over to the final version. If you find it, you will recognize it anyway. There are no other signs you could confuse it with.

I will post this in every thread to make sure everyone sees.

 

[Pollina]

I did some testing and we should move the warrior E.

This should mean the city empties down to 1 archer. It did in my test.
The 25% fortified warrior on a hill with river crossing, and in neutral land could be ignored.
Moving E threatens the worker and enters his culture.
Fred still has to cross a river to attack us and cannot return (no road).

I'm always unsure how transferable these kinds of tests are to a real game. What UnitAI does the spear have in your tests? Did you threaten the city with the axe and the HAs? This seems to make a difference in my tests. What power ratio do you have with him? That could affect what Area_AI and warplan he picks. What happens when you don't declare war? Will the warrior and spear stay in the city or move out? They've been sitting in the city for a while now in the real game, but I find this hard to reproduce in a test game.

 

[Pollina]

I can't promise that I'll get to play much until Sunday, but I'll try to play until next turn when I get home tonight (in 6-7 hours).

Are we agreed on stealing Fred's worker this turn with our axe, and moving the warrior 1E and all our horse units into CEB?

 

[WastinTime]

I can't promise that I'll get to play much until Sunday, but I'll try to play until next turn when I get home tonight (in 6-7 hours).

Are we agreed on stealing Fred's worker this turn with our axe, and moving the warrior 1E and all our horse units into CEB?

Agree. Good luck!

 

[WastinTime]

I'm always unsure how transferable these kinds of tests are to a real game. What UnitAI does the spear have in your tests? Did you threaten the city with the axe and the HAs? This seems to make a difference in my tests. What power ratio do you have with him? That could affect what Area_AI and warplan he picks. What happens when you don't declare war? Will the warrior and spear stay in the city or move out? They've been sitting in the city for a while now in the real game, but I find this hard to reproduce in a test game.

I totally agree, it's hard to predict with certainty. I didn't just do a quick test tho, I spent over an hour trying variations. Using ATTACK, COUNTER, and CITY_DEFENSE scripts. There were different outcomes. I came to the conclusion that either :
a) our warrior gets attacked on either tile (1 defender)
b) our warrior gets ignored on either tile (city has 3 defenders)
or c) our warrior only gets attacked by moving 1E (1 defender)

So moving 1E, gives us the best odds of getting 1 defender. Although we do pretty much sacrifice the warrior where it could possibly survive on the hill....but who cares.

 

[ZPV]

Good luck Pollina!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Pollina]

Got home earlier than expected and might as well play now.

For updates see this post.

 

[Pollina]

Do we take the CF with Hatty to make her finish the settler?

We can land with 6 HAs near Athens or Thebes on t78 if we want.

We could try to attack Fred's spear (2.2) this turn while he is injured and unpromoted.

 

[WastinTime]

Nice work! Probably CF. I can't think why not.

I think we should probably get rid of the spear.
One HA lost is a shame, but what ya gonna do
Do we have enough to roll on up to Hamburg while we're in the area? I'll look closer at the save.

 

[WastinTime]

Yea, the spear is not even across a river. Makes our warrior sacrifice totally worth it. And it put the spear on flat land. Kill that spear!

 

[Mitchum]

Nice work so far, Pollina. We'll let you lose 80% battles as long as all of your spy missions are successful!

+1 Kill the spear. It will be a PITA to kill it later once it's promoted and fortified in Hamburg or Berlin.

Do we have enough EPs on Hatty for the next tech steal? Should we run the EP slider for 1 turn? It would give us eyes inside Thebes...

 

[Pollina]

Do we have enough EPs on Hatty for the next tech steal? Should we run the EP slider for 1 turn? It would give us eyes inside Thebes...

We have ~240 EP on Hatty and need less than 200 to steal CoL. I don't think we need city visibility on Hatty. We can easily follow what she is doing by watching the demo and EP screen and tile animations.

We need to get Currency as prereq for CoL. With Alexa online next turn, we should get it on t78, the turn our spy is fully fortified. Alexa will double our research rate.

 

[ZPV]

Great news in Fredburg!

Definitely kill the spear and the scout. We should try to milk any free XP/GG points we can get.
I think we'll probably just CF Fred when we get the chance. He has a wandering axeman that could be a problem if we leave our chariot or a wounded HA uncovered, and Hamburg isn't really worth very much unless we can also roll over Berlin (which I suppose we could, but we're fighting blind here, and have two scouted weakly-defended valuable cities to capture further south).

Alex: I think he's building us a Granary. It's the only explanation I can think of (barb battleships aside) to work that plains hill mine instead of the clams. No, he doesn't have pottery. Maybe a lighthouse?

EDIT: Can we double-pillage the hamlet in Hatty's territory before CFing?