SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

[Pollina]

New plan:

Fred:
- peek into Hamburg this turn (done)
- attack with 2 axes, 2 HAs, 2 chariots on t78
- make sure at least 1 chariot teleports east after giving Hamburg to Hatty or CF with Fred.
- Might have to re-declare to take back Hamburg on t85. We could try to switch him into Caste during the CF.

CEB:
- chariot
- grow to size 4, 2-whip HA
- spread Christianity (t84)
- spy mission t85

FC:
- 2-whip HA (finishes t77)
- 1-whip galley (finishes t79)
- give away and steal CoL on t79, DoW, re-take with chariot from SQ
- chop/whip missionary for CEB


Thebes:
- kill barb archer
- give away Hamburg
- t79: drop 6 HAs at Thebes-N
- Alexa puts 5h into spear so that we can emergency whip in case it is threatened by Hatty's WC.

Alex:
- DoW t82 or t83, with Thebes survivors and 2 fresh HAs from Paris.
- optional: gift him CoL + prereqs (writing, math, currency) to make him switch into Caste

 

[ZPV]

Good plan!

After Hamburg, there's only one German city left. Does it come with cheese? How about a cherry on top?

 

[WastinTime]

on the plan.

So we're chopping the granary in Fredburg and assuming we can get Hamburg, yes?

 

[Pollina]

on the plan.

So we're chopping the granary in Fredburg and assuming we can get Hamburg, yes?

Yes, unless Fred has too many defenders in Hamburg on t77. If we're unsure, I can move the worker to Fredburg-N and start pre-chopping the forest there instead of finishing the chop. Would cost us 5 food in Fredburg.

 

[Pollina]

I'm getting ready to play...

t75 (continued from this post)
- HA kills barb archer and is now at 3.5 health

t76
- Hatty keeps running artists. 71 hammers into the settler.
- Hatty's worker keeps roading the desert.
- Athens grows to size 4. 21h into a build. (lots of overflow from wb)
- Sal adopts OR
- scout finds Chinese culture
- We find Hatty's chariot west of her stone quarry.
- Darius is trading away 2 silver (Mehmed, Gandhi) He wasn't trading it to Gandhi last turn.
- Gandhi is trading ivory to Darius. I think that's another new trade.

t77
- Athens finishes another workboat and a Great Prophet.
- Hatty keeps working artists. 75h into the settler
- Her WC seems to be stationary at stone-W
- Another axe appears in Hamburg. Not sure if Fred just build it or if it came from the east.
- Fred is willing to talk.
- CEB has no MP. 3 angry citizens at pop3. Whip anger will wear off next turn. I think we can still grow to size 4 in time for a HA whip + OF into axe until t85.
- Stalin did indeed settle a city at Hamburg-3E.

t78
- I guess I was wrong. Fred did not whip another unit and Hamburg is still defended by 2 axes and 1 archer.
- We lose 2 HAs and 1 CR2 axe at 20-60% odds, but manage to capture Hamburg. Good thing we brought the chariots! Granary is still intact. We also have our first 8xp unit (a chariot).
- Fred has 2 cities left and is still willing to talk.
- Hatty's settler is at 79h. Great! Now we can be (pretty) sure that she won't build another defender in Thebes.
- Currency is in. Not a ton of gold available for trade.

Spoiler :

- We could sell our sheep to Stalin for 3gpt.

Save uploaded

----------------------------

Questions:
1. Next tech?
2. CF with Fred this turn or pillage pasture + cottage next turn before CF?
3. Whip Alexa spear? Being forced to whip him on t80 would delay the switch into Rep/OR.
4. We are giving away Hamburg (and gamble on the granary), yes?
5a. Should we give Currency + CoL to Gandhi to flip him into Caste and hope he bulbs Philo for us. (We would have to pick up Meditation and give it to him when he pops a scientist.) Would cause some diplo hits for WE trade.
5b. Give anyone else CoL?
6. Where do we want our Athens warrior to teleport when we DoW Alex? To Thebes, so that we can use him as MP? North, so that he could threaten or capture the worker that might be roading towards gems#2?

 

[WastinTime]

new Axe. That's good. It's not a spear. Game on. Makes our chariots worth it.
Silver/Ivory. SUCKS

 

[Pollina]

Fred will likely emergency whip another unit ibt, right? That would be 6 attackers vs. 4 defenders.

Should I finish the granary chop in Fredburg or go with the slightly less efficient but safer Plan B?

Edit: I don't trust our odds to take Hamburg if Fred whips a spear. I'll just farm for 1t and chop next turn if we take Hamburg.

 

[WastinTime]

Yes Farm one turn good idea

 

[ZPV]

Well done Pollina!
Thanks for leaving a couple of our units alive.

Questions:
1. Next tech?
2. CF with Fred this turn or pillage pasture + cottage next turn before CF?
3. Whip Alexa spear? Being forced to whip him on t80 would delay the switch into Rep/OR.
4. We are giving away Hamburg (and gamble on the granary), yes?
5a. Should we give Currency + CoL to Gandhi to flip him into Caste and hope he bulbs Philo for us. (We would have to pick up Meditation and give it to him when he pops a scientist.) Would cause some diplo hits for WE trade.
5b. Give anyone else CoL?
6. Where do we want our Athens warrior to teleport when we DoW Alex? To Thebes, so that we can use him as MP? North, so that he could threaten or capture the worker that might be roading towards gems#2?

1. CS, I guess. Bureaucracy is still good.
2. I think we should wait until next turn, if only to look into Berlin (unless you did that this turn). See point 5.
3. Yes. Then put 4hpt into the Granary so we can 1-pop it it 6 turns. We'll need some barb protection down there at any rate.
4. Yes, I think so. Nowhere better to give Hatty.
5. He might bulb Philo for us, but I still don't see how we get it from him.
We're still giving Alex CoL (and writing, maths, currency), right? How about Joao? He's still a good target, but not for a while.
What about Fred? Could he revolt to Caste if we CF?
6. I guess Thebes would be best. That place needs an MP.

 

[WastinTime]

Well, our luck is consistent. We lose too many units for those 3 weaklings, but we get the important thing accomplished.

1. CS or Metal Casting. (machinery, guilds)
2, 3, 4 Agree w/ ZPV
5. I don't know if I like all the tech gifting all at once. I'd like to gather gold with it. What are the benefits of giving away things like currency? is it only to give away CoL? or are we trying to increase their tech rate? Couldn't we get Medi, priesthood? We're not avoiding Medi any more are we?
6. Yea, Thebes could have barb problems too.

 

[WastinTime]

trade rts are back and we got screwed. Is there any way to cancel those deals? Spy would do it, but it would take forever. War/embargo, but none of them will be bribed...would they embargo if we bribe them to pleased?

Are the routes lost as soon as we gift Hamburg? or were the routes restored before we took the city?

 

[WastinTime]

Memed might get his own silver soon and cancel the deal.
Gandhi might get a 3rd Ivory.
Watch every turn for those.

 

[Pollina]

Are the routes lost as soon as we gift Hamburg? or were the routes restored before we took the city?

We had the trade connection at the beginning of this turn. There's a Gandhi archer near Thebes that might have uncovered the trade route via Arabia/Egypt. That one gets blocked when we DoW Hatty, right? (I'm still confused about trade connections.) The Hamburg gift won't immediately break the trade connection via Stalin. That should only happen if we don't get to CF Hatty before Hamburg comes out of revolt. But then, we'd still have the connection via Thebes.

 

[WastinTime]

German's have 2 cities. Is it the Fish, deer, deer where the forest is missing?

I guess Hatty will switch into slavery when we DoW because she will have 2 cities.
Our hope is that she whips the settler and it ends up being a worker for us. Her overflow is lost. I like the sound of that. So close to just letting her build a 2nd city tho.

What if we DoW Alex right now, T78. Let Hatty settle and we keep Hamburg and trade routes?
When will Hatty get her GP? what will she do with if we let her have it?
She just got Calendar. We'll see what she picks next turn.
If we go with 100% EPs on her for stealing, then we'll see her builds too.
Is it just unhappiness and REP- that is forcing us to get Thebes ASAP?
Too bad Alex didn't trade for those , then we'd have an easy choice for a change.

 

[WastinTime]

We had the trade connection at the beginning of this turn. There's a Gandhi archer near Thebes that might have uncovered the trade route via Arabia/Egypt. That one gets blocked when we DoW Hatty, right? (I'm still confused about trade connections.) The Hamburg gift won't immediately break the trade connection via Stalin. That should only happen if we don't get to CF Hatty before Hamburg comes out of revolt. But then, we'd still have the connection via Thebes.

I suppose it makes sense to me now. w/o OB, trades can pass thru a neutral civ. Barbs and Hostile Civs will block trades.

We did not have a route defogged thru Hatty, around Sal, but now Gandhi does, so trades are on. If he had explored a couple turns sooner, we never would have lost those trades.

If things go as planned T80, we'd be connected before Hamburg is out of revolt--like you said. However, I'm still leaning towards keeping Hamburg since it has a granary and it's already size 3 (shame it's not size 4). Can we suffer a little longer with our anger and bring another 2-4 HAs for Thebes after Athens? We might even be able to save a few hammers by building Axes instead. They're going by boat anyway and landing next to the city.

 

[WastinTime]

too bad SQ's chariot didn't go to CEB for MP duty this turn. He was moved properly since he was tasked with recapture of FC, but now I'm tossing around the idea of a later FC gift. CEB could have MP T79 (paris HA), then the injured chariot at Hamburg will MP CEB on T80. So CEB will have no anger starting next turn.

If we delay Thebes like I'm thinking we do, then the SQ chariot can return to SQ for MP duty T79. That way SQ can work at size 4 longer (probably the copper tile) for 10 hpt.

I think we can add at least 4 more units to a Thebes attack after Athens for a total of 8 units. (this assumes 4 survivors at Athens)

I haven't looked at how this would throw off our stealing plans.

 

[Pollina]

My reasons for not wanting to delay Thebes still stand:

I really dislike delaying the Thebes attack while we are waiting for Hatty's settler to finish and settle a city. We are losing all kinds of beakers, production, cottage turns, etc. and there is no guarantee that she won't switch to building something else when we re-declare on t78 (for the CoL steal), or not keep the settler in the city after he is finished.

Add to that:
- No Rep => no OR => no tech steal in CEB (unless we build a monument)
- We are losing 18 bpt in Alexa alone.
- no CoL stech steal => no switching Fred & Co. into Caste for our next wars.
- Not sure what Hatty would do with a GArtist, but I don't want her to culture bomb any of her cities.
- She might need another 5 turns to finish the settler if she keeps working artists.

 

[ZPV]

I agree with Pollina.
Thebes is now priority #1. Athens is very good city, but Thebes is better because of REP.
Paris needs to start growing ASAP so that we have 2 tech cities, not 1.
Everywhere else can focus mostly on production (to which Thebes will give a big boost since it has 4 fish and 8 pop) because we still have a lot of cities we'd like to clear out quickly (Jerusalem, Istanbul, Edirne, etc, Persepolis?)

 

[Pollina]

tech and resource trades:

- sell sheep to Stalin for 3gpt
- sell Mysticism for 40+20+30+10 gold
- sell Sailing to Kublai for 10 gold. (Tiny chance that that unlocks a trade connection)
- IW to Mao for 30g??? Or wait until next turn and sell him PH?
- Tech PH (1t) and sell to everyone who has cash and Alex, Fred, Joao, Gandhi (CoL prereq) (Joao switched into OR recently, so, unfortunately, he won't adopt Caste anytime soon.)
- Alex needs: Writing, Mysticism (78), Poly (79), PH (80), CoL (81) if we want him to adopt Caste before the DoW. Earliest attack date would be t82. Capture Athens t83.
- Fred needs: Writing, Mysticism (79), Poly (80), PH (81), CoL (82). DoW on t83 or later assuming we CF next turn.

 

[ZPV]

Can you also give Alex Pottery if he doesn't have it yet? I'd like him to get stuck building a granary for us.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk