SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Do we know they'll take caste for sure? Even with just 1 city? Is all that tech trade (and self-researching PH) worth it?
OK, Thebes it is. Not having Hamburg will take away the temptation to get Berlin which I see as a distraction. I want to focus more on going east, but we should still worker farm Fred.
I don't want Joao and I'm tempted to skip Alex (I was only wanting to attack him to kill time while Hatty builds a settler.) The reason I'm still tempted to get Athens is because it is so under defended.
I don't want Joao and I'm tempted to skip Alex (I was only wanting to attack him to kill time while Hatty builds a settler.) The reason I'm still tempted to get Athens is because it is so under defended.
Non SPI AIs will switch into Caste while they have 1-2 cities and are not at war if more than 25 turns have passed since their previous civic swap. There is no randomness involved there.
I'm not sure if self-teching PH is worth it. The alternatives are giving up our Currency monopoly or just keeping everyone in Slavery. Having a few AIs in Caste would increase our odds for free/cheap Philo. Gandhi (PHI) could pop a Great Scientist in no time.
I'm not sure if self-teching PH is worth it. The alternatives are giving up our Currency monopoly or just keeping everyone in Slavery. Having a few AIs in Caste would increase our odds for free/cheap Philo. Gandhi (PHI) could pop a Great Scientist in no time.
Athens has 2 settled Great Prophets.
After chopping FC east, are you planning to road east? or other plans? We can get by without canal city. It takes too many boats to chain this early. We'll need all/most of them to land units simultaneously at Istanbul. I'm seeing a T90 Istanbul capture and that includes Athens capture T85-ish
we also have to give up math or alpha. Math I suppose since they don't bribe others against us.
We could steal PH, but I guess we have more important techs to get. Any way to squeeze that in?
Seems like we went to the effort to get CoL. The whole point being anti-slavery, right? We should follow thru on that plan.
CoL also opens up CS. I'm still considering MC, but CS is probably smarter assuming we stop whipping Paris.
what if we play the whole game without ever getting CS? We don't need it. How much benefit do we get from Bureau between T100 (when we get it) and T140--game end? We'd have to take 1t Anarchy first of all and then maybe average about 30 bpt. That's 30 for 40 turns = 1200. The cost of CS. I'm not sure we'd even average 30. We'd be getting about 15 bpt
when we first start Bureau.
Instead we steal Theo to get to Paper, but for now MC, Machinery
when we first start Bureau.
Instead we steal Theo to get to Paper, but for now MC, Machinery
With no CS and no Nationalism, looks like we can actually look forward to Vassalage. There's always a first time for everything. We'll take it when we switch to Pacifism in our golden age.
There are already 6 AIs with Math. Only Darius and Hatty have Alpha. Wait, when did Hatty get Alpha??? 
Looks like Darius traded it to her ibt 76/77. Ugh. Hope she can't bribe anyone on us. Edit: She can't, as long as Sal remains cautious with us. 
I hate stealing cheap techs like PH. Risking a spy and delaying other more important steals for it is not worth it.
I guess we could skip CS. Biggest downside I see is that that would mean we'd have to keep Hatty alive for a few more turns and suffer motherland unhappiness in Thebes if we want to steal Theo. We could kill her ~t87 if all 3 spy missions (CoL, Construction, Theo) are successful.
No CS would also mean no irrigation chains. Are we likely to need any? There are plenty of river tiles on the map, so maybe not.
Would we build any more cottages near Paris?
Looks like Darius traded it to her ibt 76/77. Ugh. Hope she can't bribe anyone on us. Edit: She can't, as long as Sal remains cautious with us. I hate stealing cheap techs like PH. Risking a spy and delaying other more important steals for it is not worth it.
I guess we could skip CS. Biggest downside I see is that that would mean we'd have to keep Hatty alive for a few more turns and suffer motherland unhappiness in Thebes if we want to steal Theo. We could kill her ~t87 if all 3 spy missions (CoL, Construction, Theo) are successful.
No CS would also mean no irrigation chains. Are we likely to need any? There are plenty of river tiles on the map, so maybe not.
Would we build any more cottages near Paris?
What's our reason to hold back currency? We can skip PH if we just give that up. We will probably want to trade currency for Monarchy some day, but we won't get Monarchy from Alex or Fred.
Yeah, I could go both ways really. I guess it depends on if we would rather keep the AI backwards or if we expect to trade with or steal from them. Not many AIs will like us after all those DoWs.
Okay, I'll skip PH for now and just give away Writing.
Okay, I'll skip PH for now and just give away Writing.
Playing...
t78 (continued from this post)
- sheep to Stalin for 3 gpt
- Mysticism to Stalin for 30g, to Churchill for 40g, to Mehmed for 20g
- Sailing to KK for 10g
- Pottery, Writing, Mysticism to Alex for 10g.
- chop into Fredburg granary
- whip Alexa spear
- 100% EP slider, 0% research on MC
t79
- Alex builds another workboat
- We gain visibility in Thebes. Hatty is 4t from building the settler.
- Berlin is defended by an archer + axe. Fred also has a spear moving towards empty Fredburg.
- Oops, I think miscalculated where our chariots will teleport. I had them pillaging the cottage and pasture, and thought I could still get one of them to teleport east. Nope, it will teleport to Hamburg and then back towards Fredburg. I'm sending the axe to explore Stalinland.
- CF with Fred.
- FC to Hatty. We steal Code of Laws for 180 EP. Spy survives.
- Hamburg to Hatty. Chariot teleports west, as expected.
- We DoW Hatty. Take back FC. 6 HAs land at Thebes-N
- Writing & Myst to Fred for 20g. Gift Math to Alex. Poly to Mehmed for 20g.
- Hatty is teching Aesthetics (10). Not that it makes any difference.
- I'm running another turn of 100% EP slider. 0% research on MC.
t80
- Hatty adopts Slavery and whips the settler, as expected. WC and worker move into Thebes.
- We lose 1 HA (30%) and capture Thebes along with 2 workers, a granary and Pyramids. Surviving HAs are at 4+ health with 1 promotion available. We could try to capture 2 more workers next turn. Or just send everyone to Athens.
- Alex' worker moves to the mine 2N1W of Athens. We could capture him if we declare on t82 and drop a couple fresh HAs from SQ and Athens there.
Save uploaded
I think this is a good point to hand off if someone is prepared to take over.
t78 (continued from this post)
- sheep to Stalin for 3 gpt
- Mysticism to Stalin for 30g, to Churchill for 40g, to Mehmed for 20g
- Sailing to KK for 10g
- Pottery, Writing, Mysticism to Alex for 10g.
- chop into Fredburg granary
- whip Alexa spear
- 100% EP slider, 0% research on MC
t79
- Alex builds another workboat
- We gain visibility in Thebes. Hatty is 4t from building the settler.
- Berlin is defended by an archer + axe. Fred also has a spear moving towards empty Fredburg.
- Oops, I think miscalculated where our chariots will teleport. I had them pillaging the cottage and pasture, and thought I could still get one of them to teleport east. Nope, it will teleport to Hamburg and then back towards Fredburg. I'm sending the axe to explore Stalinland.
- CF with Fred.
- FC to Hatty. We steal Code of Laws for 180 EP. Spy survives.
- Hamburg to Hatty. Chariot teleports west, as expected.
- We DoW Hatty. Take back FC. 6 HAs land at Thebes-N
- Writing & Myst to Fred for 20g. Gift Math to Alex. Poly to Mehmed for 20g.
- Hatty is teching Aesthetics (10). Not that it makes any difference.
- I'm running another turn of 100% EP slider. 0% research on MC.
t80
- Hatty adopts Slavery and whips the settler, as expected. WC and worker move into Thebes.
- We lose 1 HA (30%) and capture Thebes along with 2 workers, a granary and Pyramids. Surviving HAs are at 4+ health with 1 promotion available. We could try to capture 2 more workers next turn. Or just send everyone to Athens.
- Alex' worker moves to the mine 2N1W of Athens. We could capture him if we declare on t82 and drop a couple fresh HAs from SQ and Athens there.
Save uploaded
I think this is a good point to hand off if someone is prepared to take over.
Hm, I think there is a chance that we can get Mehmed to cancel his deals (silver) with Darius. We would have to get him to pleased with a tech gift. Can't do it now though, as the option to cancel deals doesn't show up in the trading screen.
Great, so I suppose it will be 10t after we DoW'd Fred?
Anyway, check every turn for this...and of course additional silver or Ivory.
Mehmed's three cities are:
Istanbul
Edirne
Yaroslav'l
Stalin liberated that city on the Black Sea to Mehmed, and still has 9 cities.
P.S. If we go for conquest, Stalin looks like the obvious candidate for vassaling (presumably with 4 stooge cities for a short war).
Istanbul
Edirne
Yaroslav'l
Stalin liberated that city on the Black Sea to Mehmed, and still has 9 cities.
P.S. If we go for conquest, Stalin looks like the obvious candidate for vassaling (presumably with 4 stooge cities for a short war).
Mitchum
Deity
Nice work, Pollina. 
I've been busy but following along silently. I'll be away from Civ for the next week but I'll continue to follow along as best I can.
You're up, ZPV!
I've been busy but following along silently. I'll be away from Civ for the next week but I'll continue to follow along as best I can.
You're up, ZPV!
Let's slow down on the Memed gifts. We will need to cancel his trades w/ Darius
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