SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

[WastinTime]

Ok, I rolled T91. Good news, Darius will trade silver (for our 2nd gems)
and we have something to work out...

Gandhi will trade Calendar
a) what do we give him? should be easy to figure out.
b) what does this mean for our Hatty steal.
First off, I think we learned a lesson: Don't put too many EPs on someone before you need them.
c) what should we do with the extra EPs? Steal money?
d) Do we still gift both cities. And steal money only if Theo succeeds on the first try?
e) we don't really need to erase much anger, so we could just gift one city and eat the extra EP.
f) to steal money, we need to capture Hamburg first. which is T94 instead of T93

The other thing I've been working on is squeezing Music out in 3t instead of 4 for earlier border pops. Not sure if it's worth it. Athens would benefit unless we get Jerusalem as planned. Then it won't matter.

 

[WastinTime]

bah, we should have built the lighthouse in Athens first. Granary is useless in the short term. At least we will have the lh the same turn we get the extra clams.

 

[ZPV]

Ok, I rolled T91. Good news, Darius will trade silver (for our 2nd gems)
and we have something to work out...

Gandhi will trade Calendar
a) what do we give him? should be easy to figure out.
b) what does this mean for our Hatty steal.
First off, I think we learned a lesson: Don't put too many EPs on someone before you need them.
c) what should we do with the extra EPs? Steal money?
d) Do we still gift both cities. And steal money only if Theo succeeds on the first try?
e) we don't really need to erase much anger, so we could just gift one city and eat the extra EP.
f) to steal money, we need to capture Hamburg first. which is T94 instead of T93

I feel like I don't know when workers should be farming or if something needs to be chopped, so I'll put out a more traditional PPP and then do a full turnset report starting at T91.

The other thing I've been working on is squeezing Music out in 3t instead of 4 for earlier border pops. Not sure if it's worth it. Athens would benefit unless we get Jerusalem as planned. Then it won't matter.

Great news on Gandhi. Can't tell you what to give him for sure without seeing the save though. Probably Currency+Meditation would do it.
b) Steal Theo in Fur City. Forget about the wasted EPs.
d) No! Only if Theo fails first try. So the sequence is:
gift Fur City -> Steal -> If fails, gift CEB -> Steal again -> kill. All on t93. Or can you do it this turn (after trading for Calendar)? Fur City's spy has been there ages and we have the spare EPs for a 40% steal if we need it.

Re: not investing EPs too early. I see your point, although this is a bit of an eleventh-hour surprise.

Athens: yep, not sure what I was thinking. LH first would have been better.

 

[WastinTime]

Turnset Report T91 - ?

T91
Darius corn for our cow
OB w/ Hatty

T92
Darius silver for our 2nd gems
Gandhi will trade Calendar

Jerusalem: 2 archers and

Spoiler :

2 workers!

pausing to decide on Calendar trade and to understand what we're going to do with Hatty.
I'm going to leave Music at T95. With the whipping we want to do, I think we'd have to sacrifice too much for earlier Music and not enough benefit.

Mao also has Calendar which should mean silks soon.

Memed is chopping a forest (I hope he roads that tile) at Istanbul 2W-N.
At 2W-2N he has archer, chariot. That's a bit of a lethal combination. The archer defends on forested hills and the chariot smokes our Axe we're planning for defense of Munich. I'll have to make sure we have a HA there too. That may take away one Lisbon attacker. let me try to get a replacement. I'll keep an eye on those 2. maybe we won't need the HA and I'll turn him around T94 back to Lisbon.

A misclick ends the turn prematurely. I think I had everything done. We'll see as I play....

T93
crap, Hatty will have an archer T94 and she's not scheduled to grow until T96. Oh well, that's more XP for us I suppose.

Istanbul is tougher than I thought. Uploaded for options.

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 600 BC to 550 BC:

Turn 91, 600 BC: Paris has grown to size 8.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Stone Quarry can hurry Horse Archer for 2⇴ with 28ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 29 turns.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Alexandria has grown to size 3.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Fredburg has grown to size 4.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Fredburg can hurry Horse Archer for 2⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 17 turns.
Turn 91, 600 BC: FurCity has grown to size 4.
Turn 91, 600 BC: FurCity can hurry Horse Archer for 2⇴ with 26ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 21 turns.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Munich will be pacified on the next turn.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Saladin will trade Clam
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 16 (Paris) (6.60) vs Frederick's Spearman (10.40)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Combat Odds: 4.7%
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Combat: +100%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 16 (Paris) is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 16 (Paris) is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 16 (Paris) is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 16 (Paris) is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Spearman has defeated Napoleon's Horse Archer 16 (Paris)!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Your Horse Archer 16 (Paris) has died trying to attack a Spearman!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 18 (Paris) (6.60) vs Frederick's Spearman (10.40)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Combat Odds: 4.7%
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Combat: +100%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Spearman is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Spearman is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Spearman is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Spearman is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Spearman is hit for 15 (25/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 18 (Paris) is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 18 (Paris) is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 18 (Paris) is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 18 (Paris) is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Spearman has defeated Napoleon's Horse Archer 18 (Paris)!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Your Horse Archer 18 (Paris) has died trying to attack a Spearman!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 17 (Cow-E-Bunga) (6.00) vs Frederick's Archer (8.85)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Combat Odds: 10.6%
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Hills Defense: +45%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 17 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 17 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 17 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 17 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 17 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer has defeated Napoleon's Horse Archer 17 (Cow-E-Bunga)!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Your Horse Archer 17 (Cow-E-Bunga) has died trying to attack a Archer!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (FurCity) (6.00) vs Frederick's Archer (8.85)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Combat Odds: 10.6%
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Hills Defense: +45%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (FurCity) is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (FurCity) is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (FurCity) is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (FurCity) is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Your Horse Archer 19 (FurCity) has withdrawn from combat with a Archer!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 15 (Stone Quarry) (6.00) vs Frederick's Archer (3.18)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Combat Odds: 97.9%
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Hills Defense: +45%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 19 (17/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 15 (Stone Quarry) has defeated Frederick's Archer!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Your Horse Archer 15 (Stone Quarry) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Chariot 1 (Paris) (4.80) vs Frederick's Spearman (2.85)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Combat Odds: 97.1%
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Combat: +100%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Chariot 1 (Paris) is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Spearman is hit for 16 (9/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Spearman is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Chariot 1 (Paris) has defeated Frederick's Spearman!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Your Chariot 1 (Paris) has destroyed a Spearman!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 12 (FurCity) (6.00) vs Frederick's Archer (1.77)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Hills Defense: +45%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Frederick's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 12 (FurCity) has defeated Frederick's Archer!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Your Horse Archer 12 (FurCity) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 91, 600 BC: You have captured Berlin!!!
Turn 91, 600 BC: The German Civilization has been destroyed!!!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Munich will be pacified on the next turn.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Churchill, Hatshepsut.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin, Kublai Khan, Stalin, Mao Zedong.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Darius I, Gandhi.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Darius I will trade Corn
Turn 91, 600 BC: Gandhi will trade Crab
Turn 91, 600 BC: Saladin will trade Clam
Turn 91, 600 BC: Stalin will trade Deer
Turn 91, 600 BC: Will Sign Open Borders: Hatshepsut
Turn 91, 600 BC: Munich will be pacified on the next turn.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Churchill, Hatshepsut.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin, Kublai Khan, Stalin, Mao Zedong.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Darius I, Gandhi.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Gandhi will trade Cow, Crab
Turn 91, 600 BC: Saladin will trade Clam
Turn 91, 600 BC: Stalin will trade Deer
Turn 91, 600 BC: Will Sign Open Borders: Hatshepsut
Turn 91, 600 BC: Cow-E-Bunga will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 91, 600 BC: Fredburg will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 91, 600 BC: You have trained a Horse Archer in Fredburg. Work has now begun on a Axeman.

Turn 92, 575 BC: Cow-E-Bunga has grown to size 3.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Cow-E-Bunga can hurry Horse Archer for 1⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Fredburg has grown to size 3.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Fredburg can hurry Axeman for 1⇴ with 18ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 26 turns.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Munich has been pacified.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Kublai Khan is the worst enemy of Churchill, Hatshepsut.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Gandhi will trade Calendar
Turn 92, 575 BC: Darius I will trade Silver
Turn 92, 575 BC: Paris will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Thebes will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Stone Quarry will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Alexandria will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 92, 575 BC: FurCity will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin, Kublai Khan, Stalin, Mao Zedong.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Darius I, Gandhi.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Kublai Khan is the worst enemy of Churchill, Hatshepsut.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Gandhi will trade Calendar
Turn 92, 575 BC: Gandhi will trade Cow, Crab
Turn 92, 575 BC: Saladin will trade Clam
Turn 92, 575 BC: Paris will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Thebes will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Stone Quarry will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Alexandria will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 92, 575 BC: FurCity will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 92, 575 BC: You have discovered Calendar!
Turn 92, 575 BC: You have trained Islamic Missionary in Thebes. Work has now begun on a Chariot.
Turn 92, 575 BC: You have trained a Horse Archer in Cow-E-Bunga. Work has now begun on a Horse Archer.
Turn 92, 575 BC: You have trained a Horse Archer in FurCity. Work has now begun on a Chariot.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Stalin has founded Khabarovsk in a distant land.

Turn 93, 550 BC: Thebes has grown to size 6.
Turn 93, 550 BC: Thebes can hurry Chariot for 2⇴ with 24ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 24 turns.
Turn 93, 550 BC: Alexandria has grown to size 4.
Turn 93, 550 BC: FurCity has grown to size 3.
Turn 93, 550 BC: Athens can hurry Lighthouse for 1⇴ with 25ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 93, 550 BC: The borders of Cow-E-Bunga are about to expand.
Turn 93, 550 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Sheep
Turn 93, 550 BC: Stalin will trade Cow

 

[WastinTime]

Thanks for the step by step on the steals. I'll do FurCity first (that was my preference too) and only CEB if we fail. Then kill Hatty. All on T94.

We can't steal T92 because we need to finish a units this turn in both cities and one more with overflow T93 in FurCity. We couldn't push it out any earlier.

We can't kill Hatty/Hamburg until T94 anyway unless we hold back a HA that is going to Istanbul. We'll get her with the CEB HA that is born T93. There's no urgent reason to kill her. We can see she is building an archer too late and can't whip it.

 

[WastinTime]

Gandhi will give calendar+5 for currency. But he has 20 gold
We could do currency+ph or medi and get the extra 15, but it seems like we can wait and get more than 15 later.

 

[WastinTime]

also, is 30 a good amt to get for priesthood? I could get that from both church and mao

 

[ZPV]

also, is 30 a good amt to get for priesthood? I could get that from both church and mao

I think so. They don't seem to go above 30g very easily (unless we can catch them double-building a wonder). I feel like it's also enough to power our economy (since Aes-Lit can also be given away for 30g a few turns later, and maybe Calendar too).

 

[WastinTime]

Another reason to wait for T94 or even T95 on Hamburg is that it might grow to 5 meaning we get it at size 4 where we can 2-whip. I'd still steal and recapture FurCity T94. It's nice we can see her food, etc. She's running 1 sheep and 3 sci, starving, but a pretty full bin, so if she get's the 2nd sheep next turn due to borders adjusting, maybe she will grow.

 

[WastinTime]

Incidentally, The HA that captures Hamburg T94 has exactly enough movement to DoW Lisbon T98.

 

[WastinTime]

Library in Paris? anyone? Otherwise, we're whipping Paris 8->6 this turn.
I could start it, but still plan to whip HA, overflow into 2nd HA for Lisbon.

 

[WastinTime]

I'm going to take every possible unit I can get to Memed for the T96 DoW. We're taking Jerusalem T95, so that means T96 is the last chance we have before barb borders are lost and we can't get to Memed on the ground. We don't have the luxury of waiting for defenders to leave the city as escort, etc. I've upped it to 14 units and I'm still worried. We will lose one at Jerusalem please: only one), then a 2nd unit needs to finish the city. But then there is still the archer that killed our worker so we can't leave the city undefended.
That should leave 11-12 for Memed. Sounds like enough.

I suspect Lisbon will be delayed until we are comfortable not sending units east for a bit.

 

[WastinTime]

I've got an idea.
I whip the missionary in Thebes now, T92, overflow into chariot. That chariot can kill the barb archer T95. Saves us another unit for Istanbul.
That delays the goldcity settler a turn or two, but who cares?

 

[Mitchum]

Sounds like things are under control. Nice work so far!

 

[Mitchum]

Don't we eventually want a library in Paris since it has so much commerce? I'm fine doing it after the HAs, of course.

 

[WastinTime]

Oops. I went to cancel a worker's orders and I hit the wrong red button I've done that before when I play on a small screen . So I ended the turn instead. I didn't whip the missionary. No biggie, I didn't really want to anyway. The chariot wasn't going to be good against an archer on a hill.

 

[WastinTime]

memed is building a lot of units.
archer, spear, axe, sword in Istanbul and archer, archer, chariot near Munich
Thoughts on prevention?
He has a chop coming next turn too.
Could we give him a tech that would make him do a building?

What's the plan regarding civics and Memed? Get him into OR/anarchy with Mono gift? Gift it the turn we DoW, 96?

 

[WastinTime]

Need to stop an upload.

We have a choice to make on Istanbul. We could bring yet another 2 units (16 total). Keeping in mind at least 2 get tied up at Jerusalem--so 12-13 attackers and a Cat. I think 10 attackers is too risky. The last 2 HAs would be landed at Istanbul-W (across the river) but we might need the finishers. What do we give up? The south galley won't be able to transport workers. I could just build a 5th galley in Thebes.

The other option is skipping Jerusalem, but I don't like that.
Maybe I'm worrying too much.

 

[ZPV]

memed is building a lot of units.
archer, spear, axe, sword in Istanbul and archer, archer, chariot near Munich
Thoughts on prevention?
He has a chop coming next turn too.
Could we give him a tech that would make him do a building?

What's the plan regarding civics and Memed? Get him into OR/anarchy with Mono gift? Gift it the turn we DoW, 96?

The plan on the turn of the DoW is:
Give him Monotheism
Bribe him into OR
DoW

Units? If he really turtles up and stacks up units then we'll just skip him, go take Persepolis and GLH, and come back with more catapults.
There's a decent chance he just moves the units out, and we can land on all three tiles blocking any reinforcements. So my advice is just wait and see.

I'll look at it again in the morning if you like for specific tactics.

I don't see any particularly attractive buildings to enable for Mehmed.

 

[WastinTime]

Bribe to OR, check.
I was tossing around the idea of giving it earlier so he might build missionaries instead of spears, but the T96 anarchy is nice. No randomness there.

I don't fancy the idea of skipping Memed. And I want marble (although he has 2 and might trade it soon). I was thinking more along the lines of gifting him Munich (or possibly Jerusalem) to thin out his units. We're planning to double chop a granary next turn in Munich, but we could just leave the forests for now. It's size 1 and has no buildings and no food in the bin rt now.

I am going to bring the extra 2 units to drop Istanbul-W cus, like you said, they block.

I'm done for the day, btw.