SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

[WastinTime]

Oh yea, I forgot to report we saved the Granary and Harbor in Lisbon, so no health issues there.
Speaking of health, we look good now that we have Rice. Unfortunately, we will likely be attacking Mao right when we actually need the Rice health.

But now that I look at Thebes, we can support 18 with our health (including crab, aqueduct + HG) so I guess loss of Rice won't matter. Edirne and Lisbon have Crab coming.

 

[WastinTime]

Hey, wait a minute...Harbor? that requires compass. I guess it was pre-built so he could use all that trifecta of seafood.
Thebes probably had one too, but it got destroyed.

 

[WastinTime]

crap, when I re-uploaded I didn't pause. I just can't remember that. Should I upload again?

 

[LowtherCastle]

No need. I've downloaded but not opened it yet. I'll declare my turnset after opening it later. Well played, WT!!!

 

[LowtherCastle]

Got it!

I'm planning to put together a full PPP over the next few days.

 

[ZPV]

Well played, WT!

I guess we have one major decision left: conquest or AP. My feeling at this point is that finding 400 hammers for AP on schedule will be more difficult than just running over everyone with knights.
That does mean we should start building galleys for Churchill soon.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[LowtherCastle]

I've revised the Game Summary post on page 1 in skeletal form.

 

[Pollina]

Fantastic turnset, WT!!! Sorry I couldn't be any help. I should have some time over the weekend to catch up with this game.

I've revised the Game Summary post on page 1 in skeletal form.

Thanks! Could you add a link to this post?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Fantastic turnset, WT!!! Sorry I couldn't be any help. I should have some time over the weekend to catch up with this game.


Thanks! Could you add a link to this post?

Your wish is my command. You're back just in time. I'm gonna need all the hep I can get.

 

[LowtherCastle]

WT, what is the plan for the T+19 Alexa GS?

 

[Pollina]

I guess we have one major decision left: conquest or AP. My feeling at this point is that finding 400 hammers for AP on schedule will be more difficult than just running over everyone with knights.

Agreed. Especially since we should be able to take Stalin as a vassal. Is it worth it to try and get him as a peace vassal? I assume it won't be easy to get him as a peace vassal. Let's see:

- We need twice their land or population (not counting our vassals' land and pop), as already noted by elitetroops. That's the main issue I've been running into in OCC conquest/domination games or when playing non ancient era starts. ("We're doing fine on our own")
- We need 1.5 times their power. (A peace vassal deal requires us to have 3 times their power, unless they are our land target). Our power is reduced if another AI has more war success than us, but that shouldn't be an issue here. Edits: Our power is multiplied by 0.75 if we are their worst enemy. Their power is modified by the leader's iVassalPowerModifier (see leader XML, resulting multiplier ranges from 0.8 (Gandhi) to 1.5 (Genghis)). (Thx, WT) ("We're doing fine on our own")
- We need 40 more war success than they have. (Easy) ("Surely you must be joking")
- Peace treaties that keep them or us from declaring war can be an issue.
- They won't agree to become a vassal if they have more than average power. ("We're doing fine on our own") A glance at the code shows that average power is total_power/civs_alive, so that includes us. It gets modified when they have a land target that is more powerful than them or when they are at war with a land target, which would make them more likely to vassal.
- They won't vassal if we are at war with one of their land targets that has a higher power than them. ("We are afraid of your enemies")
- They need to like us enough to peace vassal. ("We just don't like you enough")
- They won't peace vassal if we are at war, and they would have to declare war on their friends ("We couldn't betray our close friends") or if they don't like us enough for a war bribe. (Gandhi & Freddy will normally will peace vassal at cautious, but need to be friendly and pleased, respectively, while we are at war with another civ.) ("We just don't like you enough")
- They won't peace vassal if we are too close to a domination victory (If their land and pop gets us over 75% of the domination threshold.) ("You've grown too powerful for us.")

So that means that we would need twice his land or twice his population. This seems doable. Normally, we would have to ensure that our and his land and pop combined remain under 75% of the domination limit. This does not apply here, since there is no domination victory this game.

The power requirement should not be an issue once we start spamming knights. So I suppose the only real difficulties will be to ensure that his power stays below average power and to ensure that he stays pleased with us. Good thing he doesn't like too many AIs.

 

[Pollina]

Thought I'd post some

t101 Screenshots

Territory:

Spoiler :

Diplo:

Spoiler :

Misc:

Spoiler :

 

[LowtherCastle]

Joao has a chunk of change to steal. We just arrived tho. Could be worth it to wait on Oporto a bit

My calcs are that he has ~154g to steal, costing us ~45 + 145 more eps at 50% spy in Oporto. In CEB, it would cost us roughly 45 + 50 more eps.

If I'm right, Oporto is a bad deal, CEB so-so, depending whether you value those coins more than galleys (-or- ?) for Churchill.

 

[LowtherCastle]

@Pollina: Is that 40 more WarSuccess against Stalin or against all AIs?

 

[Pollina]

@Pollina: Is that 40 more WarSuccess against Stalin or against all AIs?

40 WarSuccess against Stalin for capitulation. (Irrelevant for peace vassals.)

 

[Pollina]

My calcs are that he has ~154g to steal, costing us ~45 + 145 more eps at 50% spy in Oporto. In CEB, it would cost us roughly 45 + 50 more eps.

If I'm right, Oporto is a bad deal, CEB so-so, depending whether you value those coins more than galleys (-or- ?) for Churchill.

Sounds about right. I don't like running spy missions without a culture or religion discount. They are usually not worth it.

Speaking of spy missions, have we given up on stealing Philo? Too bad we didn't flip Gandhi into Caste. It's too late now, since he switched into HR last turn. Is there anyone left who could produce a GS for us? Gandhi in Bombay (library)? Joao in Oporto? Anyone else?

 

[WastinTime]

Ppress. Didi have it coming that late? Do we need to make it earlier?

 

[WastinTime]

Oporto is our best chance for philo

 

[LowtherCastle]

I forgot to include the effect of GLH on our tech rate. We will probably shave a turn off and get Banking/Philo T112, so we should think hard about getting our cities to the right size. I'll try not to whip anything (try). We can study the city sizes after I end my turnset (today)

Oporto is our best chance for philo

How about we plan on bulbing Philo (unless we get lucky with someone) and start our GA T111? Or even T109 or T110? How soon do you estimate Banking, including GLH?

Let's plan to win at the end of second GA, however soon we start it.

 

[LowtherCastle]

With a GA starting T111, we can have the HG on T115 and Thebes at pop14 with only 5 mines.

Spoiler :

Thebes should have one more happy as ofT107 than my chart shows.