SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

[LowtherCastle]

I'm fine with the trade.

Would we want to build some swords for our Hatty and Alex wars if we find iron in our territory?

Have to examine that if we have some. THey might help with Thebes.

 

[LowtherCastle]

We can see Hatty's demo graphs. Her production dropped to 4 after she adopted Caste. That could mean that she is running a priest somewhere. Her crop yield seems to be 22. That could be 2 floodplains cottages and a coast tile in Alexa and 2 fish in Thebes. Or 1 floodplains cottage (hamlet) in Alexa and 3 fish in Thebes.

More data

T59 cottage unfinished; GNP 167; 22f
T60 cott 9t to hamlet; GNP 160; 25f
T61 cott 9t to hamlet; GNP 150; 22f
T62 cott 9t to hamlet; GNP 167; 22f
T63 3 cottages worked; GNP 152; 28f

Inferences:
1. Alexa worked 2 sci T59, 61?, 62; 1 sci T60
2. GS could pop during IT before T68, bulb Philo before T69.
3. Hatty's not teching Monarchy.
4.

Edited 6/2/2016

 

[LowtherCastle]

I'll wait to see if WT chimes in on the tech trade, plan to play in about an hour plus.

 

[Mitchum]

Under what circumstances would Joao trade away HBR if we give it to him?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Under what circumstances would Joao trade away HBR if we give it to him?

1. He would need Alpha.
2. He would need to be Cautious. (He's Pleased with Chruchill.)
3. He would need to know the AI. (Only knows Churchill and Hatty.)
EDIT:
4. Friendly or strongest unit in the world is 15 and 95% own HBR, which means everyone owns it with 13 players. Or strongest unit even stronger of course.

.

 

[Mitchum]

I thought AIs would not trade key military techs until enough people know the tech. How many people would need to know the tech before Joao would trade it? For most techs, 40% need to know it before Joao will make the trade... Is it 40% for HBR too?

 

[LowtherCastle]

I thought AIs would not trade key military techs until enough people know the tech. How many people would need to know the tech before Joao would trade it? For most techs, 40% need to know it before Joao will make the trade... Is it 40% for HBR too?

Yes, there's that too. Iiuc, according to Tachy's sheet, Joao won't trade it until the strongest unit in the world is 15 and 95% own it. Or Friendly, I suppose.

Good poiint.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Okay, WT is AWOL again. Probably plastered with bathroom tiles. Hope he didn't have a better solution for IW. We'll trade it to Joao for HBR.

Turnset Report T62-T63

T62 1520BC
We get Iron Working from Joao for HBR. We don't get any negmods with Hatty.
There is iron 1S of where Fredburg will be. Joao also has it and Istanbul sits on it as detected by ZPV. No one else that we can see. Iron is relatively scarce.

IT
Fred founds Fredburg in a distant land but misnames it Munich. Not distant and not Munich. We'll correct that miscarriage of history asap.

T63 1480BC
Hatty is teching Math(1t) Dang she's fast.

Hatty GNP: 152; Alexa worked 0 sci this turn. (Built a third cottage and all three got worked. )
Hatty's ep spending cost dropped from 114% to 110%.
Thebes: 46/845
Alexa: 262/812
Berlin: --

Pause for discussion. UPLOADED.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1560 BC to 1480 BC:

Spoiler :

Turn 61, 1560 BC: Paris has grown to size 6.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: FurCity has grown to size 3.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Cow-E-Bunga has grown to size 2.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Darius I will trade Silver
Turn 61, 1560 BC: You are the worst enemy of Frederick.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Stalin.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin, Mao Zedong.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Gandhi.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Hatshepsut is the worst enemy of Joao II, Alexander.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Darius I.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Alexander is the worst enemy of Hatshepsut.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Gandhi will trade Polytheism
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Churchill will trade Fish
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Darius I will trade Silver
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Mehmed II will trade Fish
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Saladin will trade Fish
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Joao II will trade Fish
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Fish, Stone
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Stalin will trade Cow, Fish
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Alexander will trade Clam
Turn 61, 1560 BC: You are the worst enemy of Frederick.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Stalin.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin, Mao Zedong.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Gandhi.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Hatshepsut is the worst enemy of Joao II, Alexander.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Darius I.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Alexander is the worst enemy of Hatshepsut.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Gandhi will trade Polytheism
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Churchill will trade Fish
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Darius I will trade Silver
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Mehmed II will trade Fish
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Saladin will trade Fish
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Joao II will trade Fish
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Fish, Stone
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Stalin will trade Cow, Fish
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Alexander will trade Clam
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 20 ℤ for Cow-E-Bunga.
Turn 61, 1560 BC: Joao II has founded Oporto in a distant land.

Turn 62, 1520 BC: Cow-E-Bunga can hurry Horse Archer for 1⇴ with 16ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 16 turns.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: You are the worst enemy of Frederick.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Stalin.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin, Mao Zedong.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Gandhi.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Hatshepsut is the worst enemy of Joao II, Alexander.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Darius I.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Alexander is the worst enemy of Hatshepsut.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Gandhi will trade Polytheism
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Joao II will trade Iron Working
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Iron Working
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Churchill will trade Fish
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Mehmed II will trade Fish
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Saladin will trade Fish
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Joao II will trade Fish
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Fish
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Stalin will trade Cow, Fish
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Alexander will trade Clam
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Paris will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: FurCity will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Cow-E-Bunga will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Paris will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: FurCity will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Cow-E-Bunga will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: You have discovered Iron Working!
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Frederick has founded Munich in a distant land.
Turn 62, 1520 BC: Gandhi adopts Slavery!

Turn 63, 1480 BC: Paris has grown to size 5.
Turn 63, 1480 BC: FurCity has grown to size 4.
Turn 63, 1480 BC: FurCity can hurry Galley for 2⇴ with 31ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 16 turns.
Turn 63, 1480 BC: Cow-E-Bunga has grown to size 3.
Turn 63, 1480 BC: You are the worst enemy of Frederick.
Turn 63, 1480 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Stalin.
Turn 63, 1480 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin, Mao Zedong.
Turn 63, 1480 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Gandhi.
Turn 63, 1480 BC: Hatshepsut is the worst enemy of Joao II, Alexander.
Turn 63, 1480 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Darius I.
Turn 63, 1480 BC: Alexander is the worst enemy of Hatshepsut.
Turn 63, 1480 BC: Gandhi will trade Polytheism
Turn 63, 1480 BC: Stalin will trade Cow
Turn 63, 1480 BC: Alexander will trade Clam

.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Okay. There you have it. Hatty continues to tech like a whirling dervish. We'll be able to get Math from her as soon as we're ready to steal it. Alexa is building a granary that will be complete T73. If she works no more sci, then I'm inferring Alexa will pop the GS on T73, bulb Philo T74.

Looks like we'll want to capture Fredburg and gift it to Hatty. It will be at pop2 on T70 (or T69?).

1. What do we tech now since Math is a prereq for Currency? Or just collect eps on Hatty for now?
2. Should we alter our MM to get the spy built in CEB asap to steal math asap?
3. Should we capture Thebes first?
4. ?

 

[Pollina]

Yes, there's that too. Iiuc, according to Tachy's sheet, Joao won't trade it until the strongest unit in the world is 15 and 95% own it. Or Friendly, I suppose.

Good poiint.

I tested this, as 95% seemed much higher than what I would have expected.

Turns out that the only units counting towards HBR for WDWTST calculations are HAs. With stable and ger, I get a 56% threshold for Joao assuming a strongest unit of 6

 

[Pollina]

Could you upload, LC? I can think better when I have a save to look at.

 

[LowtherCastle]

@Pollina: Yes, it struck me as weird including Cavalry...

Another question: Gandhi will trade Poly if he knows one more AI without it. For all we know he already knows that AI. We need Poly to get to Mono for ORgRel and Phood for CoL (unless we get Currency first). DO we want to give Gandhi IW for Poly?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Could you upload, LC? I can think better when I have a save to look at.

Me too. Done.

 

[WastinTime]

I say get poly

 

[Pollina]

1. What do we tech now since Math is a prereq for Currency? Or just collect eps on Hatty for now?
2. Should we alter our MM to get the spy built in CEB asap to steal math asap?
3. Should we capture Thebes first?
4. ?

1. Math+CoL+Philo will cost us ~600 EP. We might as well start generating them now while we wait for tech trade opportunities.
2. Are we going to steal one tech every 6 turns? Or do we want those techs faster? If we are stealing one tech at a time, I would try to get Math asap.
3. How many defenders do we expect in Thebes? I'm leaning towards Thebes first.
4. Get Poly for IW? - Go for it.

 

[ZPV]

1. Math+CoL+Philo will cost us ~600 EP. We might as well start generating them now while we wait for tech trade opportunities.
2. Are we going to steal one tech every 6 turns? Or do we want those techs faster? If we are stealing one tech at a time, I would try to get Math asap.
3. How many defenders do we expect in Thebes? I'm leaning towards Thebes first.
4. Get Poly for IW? - Go for it.

I think there's an interesting opportunity if she chooses CS next.
If she does, I'd like to research Maths ASAP and then do two rounds of tech steals:
1) CoL (1 spy)
2) CS + Philo (2 spies, lots of EPs).

Yes to Poly-IW

 

[Mitchum]

I also agree on the Poly <-> IW trade.

What would the plan look like if we wanted to steal Math from Hatty? How soon could we get it without delaying our DoW date?

If we're going to steal it, would we run 0% research slider on Currency and then research it at 100% post Math to get the 20% bonus? Would we just go ahead and research Currency anyway knowing that we're losing out on the 20% bonus until we finally do steal Math? Or would we research something else until we get Math?

Or do we want to hold off to see where Hatty is going next per ZPV's suggestion?

Regardless of whether we steal Math or self tech it, we will likely have plenty of other techs to steal from her so our EPs won't go to waste. I guess it comes down to a matter of timing (how long can we hold off on Math and/or delay Currency) and efficient use of our commerce (i.e. converting it to either beakers, gold or EPs).

 

[LowtherCastle]

This turnset just got intensely complicated, though it's the least important turnset of the game.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Seems to me we want to strike a balance on the following:

1. Capture Alexa+Thebes
2. StealOrTech Math/Currency
3. Gift Hatty Fredburg
4. Hatty bulbs Philo

 

[ZPV]

I would run EPs this turn, and then if Hatty looks like she's researching a useful post-Maths tech, look to quickly steal that one and research Maths ourselves.

Philo is on our tech path, but it's not immediately on our tech path. I wouldn't delay Alexa+Thebes unless there's also another big-ish tech worth stealing, like CS. Spending EPs on it now vs spending Bureaucracy-Library-beakers or a GS on it later isn't a great conversion rate.