SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

Athens isn't a bad second choice for HE, misses all those Berlins chops but already has most mines in place, we get it sooner, and you have it scheduled to produce a junk GP.

I'd even consider beelining Literature before MC and building HE without marble, if we're going with Athens. What's our MC urgency, if any? Unit production is still a major slog. Be nice to free that up.
MC vs Aes-Lit? I don't really see either one as being very critical in the timing. It's just the next step on the road to Music+Banking. I guess Lit opens up failgold possibilities the minute marble is available.

I expect to be able to get marble online within about 15 turns, so I don't see the point of rushing for HE beforehand.

Berlin is a better choice for HE - Athens is stuck out on a peninsula and hard to get to except by boat (plus I want to use its already-polluted gene pool for wonders). I guess we'll just have to suck it up and research a couple extra turns if we pop an unfortunate GA.

Note to self: In future, proofread your posts and finish your :mischief:
Nope. He has 3 cities and won't switch voluntarily. I wonder if we should wait with the Mono gift, and bribe him into anarchy (OR) on DoW+0.

Good idea. There's only one city we're really afraid of whipped defenders in.
 
PPP, v2
-------------------------
Tech Path:
Revolt to OR+Representation immediately
Meditation (nobody has this but Hatty)
Aesthetics-Literature-Music (easy border pops)
Metal Casting-Machinery-(trade for Monarchy)-Feudalism-Guilds-Banking

Diplomacy & War Plans
-------------------------
Mehmed:
Give him Currency.
If he pops a GS, give him Mediation and CoL
Bribe him to cancel deals with Darius when possible (CoL is a good choice)
DoW-0: Give him Monotheism and bribe him into OR
One galley from Thebes will scout Istanbul.
We're looking to capture it within 10 turns but this depends on what's defending it. He might have a stack we need to wait on marching.

Hatty:
CF when possible.
One HA will try to capture her two workers.
Give her CEB t85; steal Construction, DoW and recapture CEB.
CF again; look for a double steal and kill her off ~t92

Joao:
By t90, make sure he has Currency.
If he pops a GS, give him CoL and Meditation
Scout him out with a chariot, but no aggressive moves unless we can get Philosophy from someone else.

Barbs:
One HA will scout Jerusalem (and presumably get eaten by barb spearmen)
The Hatty workerherd will scout the gold area.

Alex:
Give him Currency-CoL
Dow t82, capture t83. Kill any wandering warriors amphibiously. Don't get stuck in his expanded culture.

Fred:
Start massing for an attack.

Darius, Gandhi, Churchill, Kublai:
Give them Monotheism so they can research Monarchy for us.
Gandhi needs Currency-CoL too.

-------------------------
City builds:
Paris: HAs, slowly. Steal the deer once CEB grows. Chop where the worker currently is, plus SW. 2-pop whip t89. Grow on cottages where possible.
SQ: Settler (use the current overflow, then grow to size 4 and 2whip) - Rax. Work shared cottages with Paris where possible.
CEB: HA 2 pop whip, overflowing into Axeman.
Fredburg: Granary-Rax-HAs
Fur City: Missionary (Chop+Whip) - HA (Max growth) - Missionary (we'll need more than 1...)
Alexa: Granary (1 whip) - Library (Max growth). Workers build farms.
Thebes: Lighthouse - Prebuild HA and Rax for 2-pop whipping - GLH. One worker builds a road towards Jerusalem.
 
Mehmed:
Give him Currency.
If he pops a GS, give him Mediation and CoL
You need to give him Alpha, too. Same with Joao.

Darius, Gandhi, Churchill, Kublai:
Give them Monotheism so they can research Monarchy for us.
Gandhi needs Currency-CoL too.
We can't give Mono to Gandhi before we give him CoL if we want him to switch into Caste. He would switch into OR and reset his 10t civic swap timer. It might be better to wait with the Mono gifts until next turn, so that no one can trade it to him.

Good luck!
 
Any way to build a chariot and use it to peek into Jerusalem? If it survives and is sentry it could defog all of Africa and such.

Good luck!
 
Any way to build a chariot and use it to peek into Jerusalem? If it survives and is sentry it could defog all of Africa and such.

At the moment, I'm planning to use currently-unemployed HAs for that purpose.
I don't see a way to do it with chariots nearly as quickly - I hope to see Jerusalem t82 (81 if it's a hill city) with our unpromoted HA near Thebes.

I can probably ship a chariot over to Africa so we don't have to use a HA to explore the gold though.
 
Fred: maybe there's a double worker steal-CF we could do on him before the attack. Then he'll make more workers for us when we take Berlin. I suppose the workers are down by the Deer and not re-pasturing the sheep, but you never know.
Maybe the boat scouting Istanbul will be able to drop a HA on top of a worker at New Munich too.
 
Let's hold off as long as we can on tech gifts so we can collect another 100 gold. I realize some of the gifts need to happen ASAP, but if there's no good reason, try to get 20 gold or something for each trade.
 
Turnset Report, t80-?

t80

We revolt to OrgRel+Representation.
Gandhi is 5 players' worst enemy. I think I have to hold off on the gifts. Too much bad blood with AIs we're not about to fight.
We do give Currency to Alex and sell Polytheism around.
Currency to Mehmed as well.

IBT:
One German worker appears on the sheep. Pasture (4)
One barb worker is in stealable range at the barb city.
Hatty's workers are both capturable. Hatty will talk.

t81
Change of plans. I'll research Aesthetics this turn, because I think we can trade for Meditation (and priesthood) from Hatty next turn when I CF (after worker #2 is captured). Never mind, they're monopoly techs. Duhh.
CoL-> Alex

IBT:
Alex adopts Caste System
No GPs are born.

t82
We scout Jerusalem (Screenshots to come). 4 pop..
It has river wheat, lake fish and plains cows.
150% Defence - Castle+Citadel+Walls. Also a Totem Pole and a Jewish Temple.
Christian+Jewish holy city; no shrines.
It's defended by a CG2 Archer, and unpromoted Archer, and a worker.
Spoiler :
attachment.php



We CF Hatty and DoW Alex.
We kill one of the warriors amphibiously. If I'd set up better on t80 we could have got both of them, but my galleys were out of position.
So it'll be one archer, one unfortified warrior, plus anything he builds IBT.

IBT:
Nada

t83
We capture Athens without loss.
It has two settled prophets and no buildings (apart from the Oracle).
Istanbul has C1 Axe, C1 Sword, Galley, Work boat, 2x unpromoted Archer.
We'll either need them to move away from the city (he's been preparing against us for a long time now) or to add a couple of catapults to the mix.

I'll upload here and pause for the night.
I plan to give Fred CoL this turn and then steal his worker (and hopefully kill his spearman with our axe) next turn.
=====================
Continuing after a short 48h break and post 1280
=====================

IBT:
Fred adopts Caste System
Fred will open borders. :lol:

t84
OB with Fred. We're totally not just casing the joint. Berlin still has GuerI Archer + C1 Axe.
However, there's a C1 Spearman 2N of Berlin, in the wrong place for worker-stealing.
New Munich's worker is guarded by a spear+axe pair.
We cancel Mehmed's trades with Darius for the steep steep price of Meditation + 15 gold. I didn't want to give him the option to revolt just yet.
Fish<->Silver with Darius.

IBT:
We're Fred's worst enemy again
Hatty's borders expand, disrupting our worker-stealing plans.
However, Fred starts building a cottage next to our border. :lol:

t85
Gandhi has Ivory for trade. We have to give him Fish+Fur for it.
We give CEB to Hatty, steal Construction for 180EP, and retake the city. Our borders are a bit screwy. They'll reset next turn...

IBT:
You know what else reset? Those trades we just set up. :wallbash:
Trades with Darius and Gandhi cancelled.

t86
Churchill has gems available.
We DoW Fred, killing his spear with our axe and stealing his worker. It might face some convenient retaliation from the city. :mischief:
Gandhi's trades are available again, but the price has gone up :cry:
Ivory for Fur, Fish and Deer this time. In 10t we'll be able to give him copper instead.

IBT:
Fred's axe from Berlin kills our axe, and deletes the stolen worker.

t87
We kill Fred's axe.
CF Hatshepsut. Darius has already traded his silver away, this time to Stalin.
100% EPs for the next steals.
CEB finally gets its borders back. Churchill's culture forced it to be unowned for a couple turns when we recaptured it, even though he's on another continent.

IBT:
The axe/spear pair that were guarding Fred's other worker moves into Berlin.

t88
We land 5 HAs outside New Munich, stealing a worker. This one's for keeps. It's guarded by an axe and an archer.
We play some more cat and mouse with spearmen. I expect those two units to march out towards, so a sacrificial chariot guides them onto a 0% defences tile.
Berlin is not working very many hammers by the looks of it. If the two melee units vacate, we could actually capture it soonish.
We trade Priesthood for Meditation from Kublai, for our next round of 30g trade bait.

IBT:
The axe takes the bait. The spear camps out on the forest near Fredburg.

t89
Finally, our scout finds a Bridge to the Far East sign in China. Mehmed-Darius-Gandhi-Mao will form a contiguous route.
We capture Munich, for the loss of one HA.
7 HAs move into range of Berlin, plus one HA and one Chariot block the road to Fredburg.
Plato is born in Alexandria. He decides Thebes is a better home, because there's a barb warrior near Alexa.

IBT:
Fred's spear loses to our shock HA. However, he's built another one in Berlin.

t90
No action - time to upload. Berlin will live for one more turn.
Back to 100% research.
Spoiler :
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Is Memed pleased with us? i.e. Willing to cancel trades when the time comes? We're holding back a tech for that, right?
 
I've played up to Athens. We've got it; and didn't lose any units. Next up is Berlin or Istanbul. Istanbul will likely need catapults.

I've stopped for the night - I'll continue tomorrow.
 
Checking in briefly. Nice work so far, ZPV. I'm assuming you stole Hatty's 2 workers and the barb worker, yes?

Do we need to start planning our victory? Seems like AP would be the fastest. Conquest would be too much of a pain, right?
 
I hate building courthouses even more than forges, but, just like IND leaders build forges, we could consider a courthouse or two. They are only 60h.

Since we need EPs, the +2 is actually a benefit. Then we should save 3-4 gpt.
If we needed some junk GPP, that could be an additional use. Maybe Thebes? Especially if GLH gets built somewhere soon.

A courthouse could pay back in only 10 turns, but we're probably done stealing soon, so it would be more like 20 turns to give us ROI.

Just a thought.
 
We're at 8 cities, 11 workers. :thumbsup:
Looking like our RR could need 35-40 segments built...or more if there is a maze at the end.
Keep collecting every worker we can and make plans to farm more.
 
I've run out of time to play today, I'll do some more tomorrow though. 0-0. Why do I bother?

I'm looking at using our Athens stack to pinch New Munich (and then make a judgement call on Berlin) when we DoW Fred again.
 
I'm ready to continue. I'll just update the previous turnset post since there haven't been any intervening decisions.
 
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