I'm pretty busy till tomorrow night, then I'll try to finalize an initial PPP. I'll try to focus on optimizing cities, planning chops for failgold short- and long-term, and the war plan, along with details.
Keep up the discussion. It would be nice to get a realistic idea of how many bpt we can actually average at 100%. Figure out our GP city mix and schedule and getting the GA#2 set, starting on T111 or T112. Cashflow solutions.
If we wanted to build the NE somewhere at some point, where?
I don't think there's all that much (if any) difference, between now and our golden age. Maybe a little bit of reprioritising chops from failgold to units and vice-versa, plus how soon we have to plan to conquer the world.
Really? Our beaker count won't go up substantially when in a GA (+1C per tile worked), running Representation and hiring a bunch of specialists? I would think that our beaker count (and expense dificit) would be quite a bit different pre and post-launch of the GA.
Another thing that makes it tough is that as we conquer cities, our max research goes up... and so do our expenses, of course.
This all has to be balanced with city capture gold, fail gold, etc. to keep the slider at 100% the rest of the game.
All of these moving parts are difficult (for me) to predict/estimate several turns into the future.
In my experience, I always tend to underestimate my final beaker count. Hopefully you guys have a better handle on that than I do.
Really? Our beaker count won't go up substantially when in a GA (+1C per tile worked), running Representation and hiring a bunch of specialists? I would think that our beaker count (and expense dificit) would be quite a bit different pre and post-launch of the GA.
Another thing that makes it tough is that as we conquer cities, our max research goes up... and so do our expenses, of course.
This all has to be balanced with city capture gold, fail gold, etc. to keep the slider at 100% the rest of the game.
All of these moving parts are difficult (for me) to predict/estimate several turns into the future.
In my experience, I always tend to underestimate my final beaker count. Hopefully you guys have a better handle on that than I do.
Wait, did you think you weren't playing with a few of LC's many different personas?
Well, maybe not that WastinTime character. The responsibility for him's gotta lie with your imagination.
How are we doing for worker availability in the north? Aside from Berlin needing a million chops, I think Fredburg and CEB could usefully be workshopped. They'll be 1f5h monster tiles soon enough.
How are we doing for worker availability in the north? Aside from Berlin needing a million chops, I think Fredburg and CEB could usefully be workshopped. They'll be 1f5h monster tiles soon enough.
Excellent point. On rivers, 1f5h2c. In fact Berlin needs at most 2 mines, the rest wkshps. That's a reason to double-bulb Chemistry asap. When would we get that at the earliest?
I'm thinking that our final frontier in speeding up our finishing date and possibly achieving ZPV's vision is DOWing Stalin. He's got nice river turf, from what we can see. He'll provide a number of slaves, and more capture gold.
We would have to get him to capitulate and join us in a war against someone else so we could get OBs for building the RR, right?
I'm thinking that our final frontier in speeding up our finishing date and possibly achieving ZPV's vision is DOWing Stalin. He's got nice river turf, from what we can see. He'll provide a number of slaves, and more capture gold.
We would have to get him to capitulate and join us in a war against someone else so we could get OBs for building the RR, right?
How many cities would we have to take from him to push his population or land below 50% of ours? Then there's also the power requirement... How long will it take to get him to capitulate, and is there enough time for his cities to come out of revolt and be useful?
Excellent point. On rivers, 1f5h2c. In fact Berlin needs at most 2 mines, the rest wkshps. That's a reason to double-bulb Chemistry asap. When would we get that at the earliest?
Probably Golden Age + 4. (Brown number)
I'd be careful substituting too many workshops for mines though. Mines are cheaper to build (4t instead of 6), and workshops don't catch up in production until Caste System, and don't outstrip mines until Chemistry.
I'm thinking that our final frontier in speeding up our finishing date and possibly achieving ZPV's vision is DOWing Stalin. He's got nice river turf, from what we can see. He'll provide a number of slaves, and more capture gold.
We would have to get him to capitulate and join us in a war against someone else so we could get OBs for building the RR, right?
Well, I think war is probably the critical path. What I don't want to do is get bogged down trying to plough through Stalin's 5000 swordsmen. Once we have a stack of knights we can take him on if desired, but not before. Darius and Gandhi are much softer targets, for instance.
I guess the question remains, of what we do with our victorious Portuguese army. Churchill and Stalin would both benefit from stronger units. Drop outside London with the addition of a couple catapults?
I guess the question remains, of what we do with our victorious Portuguese army. Churchill and Stalin would both benefit from stronger units. Drop outside London with the addition of a couple catapults?
@Stalin: Yes, I forgot to mention that DoWing Stalin would be a late-game decision. We also have to remember that Kublai's cities (if the Orient goes that way) have to come out of resistance to enculturate the RR.
How many cities would we have to take from him to push his population or land below 50% of ours? Then there's also the power requirement... How long will it take to get him to capitulate, and is there enough time for his cities to come out of revolt and be useful?
What about liberating cities back to him for plusmods and then peace vassalizing him? Doable? His central cities are only useful for the capture gold and any slaves and that way the cities cover as much or more land for our RR.
Research
Machinery-Feudalism-Guilds-Banking-Engineering
T103 Use GS for Philo.
Golden Age
T103 Use GA for GAge.
Civics/Religion Changes
T103 After GA, revolt to Islam.
T103 After any whips, revolt to Castes+Pacifism
~T110 After teching Banking, revolt to Mercantilism+Vassalage
Paris: grow to p11, build HAs, maybe Islam miss if spread in time
Thebes: grow to p13/14?, build aqua-HG
CEB: axe(maxOF 2whip)-Moai(t103)-galley(2whip)-galley(1whip)-mounted
SQ: galley-sword-MoM (chops t106, 107)
Alexa: grow to p10, monastery
Fredburg: grow to p11, wb, warrior, failgold into HE(t105)-lh-HA
FC: cat(2whip)-Moai(t104)-warrior-HA
Athens: grow to p9?, Parthenon (2chops, t105, t109)
CC: grow to p7, wb-lh-HA
Munich: grow to p8, lh-moai(t102)-warrior-HA
Berlin: grow to ~p12, rax-HE(t106-3chops)-cat-mounted(3chops)
Hamburg: grow to p9, culture-lh(t105-1whip+chop)-Moai(t106)-HA
Jerusalem: granary(2whip)-2warriors-cat?
Istanbul: culture-granary(t104-2whip)-lh-lib(1chop)/units?
Edirne: culture-1whipwarrior-units
Lisbon: grow to p7, culture-lh(chop)-lib(multichop)?-failgold? Major problem for GP plan!
Cities still needing Islam
Paris (Sal?)
Munich (We must spread this)
Hamburg (Sal?)
Chop Schedule
T101 Munich
T102 Munich (16h)
T103 Berlin chop
T105 Berlin 2chops, Istanbul, Hamburg
T106 Fredburg 3chops, SQ
T106-109 Lisbon 6chops
T107 CEB, SQ, Berlin
T109 Berlin
T110 SQ
T111 Berlin
War Plans
1. get Joao's axe w/chariots 1.5 Get Darius' axe
2. Capture Oporto T103, 5 HAs (1 partially healed)
3. DoW Darius T103, Capture Persepolis T104?, 8 HAs enough? We'll send a scout ahead before DoW.
t101 One Istanbul Axe heads back towards Munich for Darius' axe.
Other Istanbul Axe boards galley
Eveyrone else gathers in Edirne to promote/heal.
t102 fill galleys with 2axe, 6 healthy HA, heal last HA in Edirne.
kill Joao Axe...(If we don't have a healthy chariot coming from FurCity area, then probably send a 2nd axe back to Istanbul and load 1 axe, 7 HA)
t103 DoW, unload 8 on the corn. Move all other HAs plus healer to Corn-2W
t104 take city, or worst case, If things look bad, we can block reinforcements by moving to silver and move our backup stack in. Note: don't move them to the corn. Move to Corn-S.
4. Capture Yaroslavl' ??? or leave for back-ups and focus on getting to Delhi via Darius asap?
5. When to go down on Delhi? DoW t107, Bombay t108, Delhi T110, best-case scenario. We'll see what happens at Perseplis.
6. Capture London ~T111. Depends on units from Oporto.
Cash Reserves/Failgold/Pillage schedule -- Not sure how much we need under T103 GA.
Garrison Schedule -- Alexa+Fredb+Athens+Berlin+Hamb+Istan+Lisbon (+Munich+CanalCity)
Have available: 1-2 chariots + 3 axes (spear and HA already spawnbusting, one will replace GS)
Need: 3 minimum
Data: We could regain access to iron on T107 with Oporto border expansion, in time for Guilds.
Completion turns:
T105 warrior (FC)
T105 warrior (CEB)
T105 warrior (Fredburg)
T105 warrior (Athens)
T105 warrior (Jerusalem)
T106 warrior (Fredburg)
T106 warrior (Munich)
T106 warrior (Jerusalem)
Spawnbust Schedule Southern Spain
T101 spear mv 1W, GS mv 1W, HA mv 2E
T102 HA mv 3E1S
T103 HA mv to GS
Northern Spain
T102-105 unit at Lisbon-2E1S, as needed
T103-105 worker or unit at Lisbon-3E1S, as needed
Persepolis
T104-T109 any unit at Persepolis-ne (barbs will spawn to se, e, ne, and n of Persepolis )
Happies
T103 -1 Silver (DoW w/Darius)
T103 +1 (Islam in most cities)
T104 +1 Wines (could be T103)
T106 +1 Gold
T107 -1 Ivory (DoW Gandhi)
T109 +1 Silver Persepolis
T111 +1 Stonehenge (could be earlier?)
T112 +1 Incense
Diplomacy
happies?
Watch for Sal happies.
Watch for Stalin trading incense
Watch for incense, dyes, sugar, from Gandhi Watch for any AI popping a GS, trade appropriate tech for Philo, as needed.
T103 gift away all copper and iron
T103 Bribe Darius into Castes before DoW.
~T108 Bribe Gandhi into Castes before DoW.
~T110 Bribe Churchill into Castes before DoW.
I was thinking more like putting a few hammers in before marble, then whipping on marble+0 and removing it from the queue. Not sure we actually have the pop for that though.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
