SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

[WastinTime]

Paya just for Pacifism? We need Philo anyway for Liberalism.

also, paya pollutes gene pool.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Paya just for Pacifism? We need Philo anyway for Liberalism.

also, paya pollutes gene pool.

The idea is Paya for Pacifism on T107 and allowing us to get Philo later without burning a GS, thus eliminating the 2200gp GP. I suppose we could swap Parthenon in Athens with Paya in Berlin. Could get us the 50% gp bonnus much sooner, say T106. Speaking of which, isn't Parthenon in Athens spoiling the gene pool there?

 

[LowtherCastle]

If we build HE in Fred and no wonder in Berlin, then Berlin can pop a pure GM (or whatever). Then Athens doesn't have a polluted gene pool with Parthenon.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Flatland, coastal St. Pete is pop12 with +18fpt after we take out Moscow and Yakutsk. Galleys could drop units on DoW T+1, capture on T+2.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Or DoW T+0 capture Yakutsk and T+2, St Pete by land.

 

[LowtherCastle]

If I'm not mistaken, Yakutsk, without any further captures, provides 6-7 forests in its BFC. Comes out of resistance in 5t.

Rostov 8-9.

 

[WastinTime]

The idea is Paya for Pacifism on T107 and allowing us to get Philo later without burning a GS, thus eliminating the 2200gp GP. I suppose we could swap Parthenon in Athens with Paya in Berlin. Could get us the 50% gp bonnus much sooner, say T106. Speaking of which, isn't Parthenon in Athens spoiling the gene pool there?

we'd want paya, oracle, and Moai together if we're going to build Paya

 

[LowtherCastle]

we'd want paya, oracle, and Moai together if we're going to build Paya

Moai's scheduled for Oporto. Too late for Athens with Paya or anything else. Plus, Oporto can grow and use the hammers.

 

[LowtherCastle]

A Possible Plan

• paya in Athens so that we can get Philo cheap whenever, + pure gene pool
• parthenon(106)+HE(107) in Berlin, pure gene pool, +50% gps sooner
• 3 GAs, starting asap, but stay in slavery till next war after Darius, risking his hill whips.
• crank out knights asap and go down on Yakutsk-StPete-Moscow for extra GP.

Questions:
1. Will we lose trade networks DoWing Stalin and Darius? TRs?
2. How critical is GLH now? Or can we go straight down on Delhi?

 

[WastinTime]

I thought getting darius and gandhi into Caste was the most important reason for the early GA.
However, I can imagine that we can't get an army worthy of conquering the world without slavery for another 10 turns. So, let's rule out caste.
That means we start the golden age with the GS...which means we have a barb spawning ground opening up.
We'll need Paya, but not a big rush. We probably won't take Pacifism until we get banking.
Paya goes in Athens.
AlexaGS + existing GArt gets us the next GA.

Joao chariots: one kills Joao Axe hopefully, other finishes that axe or goes for Darius Axe.

I want GLH.

t101 One Istanbul Axe heads back towards Munich for Darius' axe.
Other Istanbul Axe boards galley
Eveyrone else gathers in Edirne to promote/heal.

t102 fill galleys with 2axe, 6 healthy HA, heal last HA in Edirne.
kill Joao Axe...(If we don't have a healthy chariot coming from FurCity area, then probably send a 2nd axe back to Istanbul and load 1 axe, 7 HA)
t103 DoW, unload 8 on the corn. Move all other HAs plus healer to Corn-2W

t104 take city, or worst case, If things look bad, we can block reinforcements by moving to silver and move our backup stack in. Note: don't move them to the corn. Move to Corn-S.

I'm not seeing how we can get an army for Stalin in time to capture St. Pete, get it out of resistance, and then have it contribute to our GP plan. I'll keep an open mind on attacking him, but for now, I think we can move on with Darius first.

 

[WastinTime]

Hamburg: Are you going to run a citizen for 2 turns, so we pop borders and get the sheep sooner?

fyi..I did run a couple turns of a citizen in Fredburg/Hamburg to pop Fredbg borders sooner and also to get the workboat 1t sooner. That border pop also allowed Hamburg to work the grassForest. I've got the border pop there timed with the workboat netting the fish. I'm not sure if speeding up that border pop by 1 more turn at the cost of some food will get you sheep any sooner, but it's an option. At least the citizen includes the REP bonus so the food tradeoff is not bad.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Turn   Alexa  Istanbul Comments
====   =====  ======== ========
101     103       0     
102     109       0     
103     115       0    start GA  
104     127      24    +4f  
105     139      48    +4f = 8f in bin
106     151      72    Parthenon done, 12f in bin
107     166     117    6f in bin     
108     181     162    0f in bin, [B][COLOR="Red"]could starve Istanbul to p6 for T109 completion[/COLOR][/B]
109     196     192    4f in bin
110     211     222    8f in bin

Key questions:
1. Does Parthenon (Berlin) bonus affect either Alexa or Istanbul on T106?
2. Which city gets the 200gp GP?

Edited Note (to self): The lh actually doesn't help. Might as well chop into the granary or not at all.

Edit2: Food was wrong. I only subtracted 1fpt instead of2fpt for not having the lh. Doesn't change the outcome.

.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Assuming GA starting T103, the above also means we can whip the Alexa lh for a profit. 1whip on T102 => +4f1h on T109. Or 1whip on T103 => +2f4h on T109, which means the Islam Monastery 10% bonus 1t sooner.

 

[ZPV]

Turn   Alexa  Istanbul Comments
====   =====  ======== ========
101     103       0     
102     109       0     
103     115       0    start GA  
104     127      24    +5f  
105     139      48    +5f = 10f in bin
106     151      72    Parthenon done, 15f in bin
107     166     117    9f in bin     
108     181     162    3f in bin, [B][COLOR="Red"]could starve Istanbul to p6 for T109 completion[/COLOR][/B]
109     196     192    8f in bin
110     211     222    13f in bin

Key questions:
1. Does Parthenon (Berlin) bonus affect either Alexa or Istanbul on T106?
2. Which city gets the 200gp GP?

Edited Note (to self): The lh actually doesn't help. Might as well chop into the granary or not at all.

.

1. Istanbul (and Berlin!), but not Alexa.
2. Alexa wins the tiebreak, so if they're both due on t110, Alexa pops the GS.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I thought getting darius and gandhi into Caste was the most important reason for the early GA.

If you're convinced we can pull off three GAs, then that's the most important reason to me. That guarantees we finish sooner. More hammers, more coins helps both research and warring. I'd still like to revolt to Castes on T103 if possible. Not ruling anything out, but it may come down to compromises.

In any case, I'm far from convinced that Conquest is our Critical Path.

 

[LowtherCastle]

1. Istanbul (and Berlin!), but not Alexa.
2. Alexa wins the tiebreak, so if they're both due on t110, Alexa pops the GS.

That leaves Istanbul a lousy 2gps short on T109.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Note I edited my Istanbul calcs above, correcting a food error. Doesn't change results.

 

[LowtherCastle]

We have a GS (philo) and a GArt to start the GA. Sux. I'd rather save that Gart.

So the above Istanbul workout addresses your concern. We can produce a 200gp GM/GA in Istanbul. Either way we can save a GA for our third GAge. The beaker cost on the 50% academy bonus is:

31 nonsci-turns * 3bpt/nonsci-turn * 50% acad bonus = 93/2 ~= 46b.​

plus any loss for starving Istanbul down 1p and not growing it sooner. Worth it? I suppose so, although it wouldn't hurt to find a substitute for Istanbul for the 200gp non-GS.

 

[ZPV]

That leaves Istanbul a lousy 2gps short on T109.

You could delay the GA by 1 turn, delaying Alexa's GS if you want. I'm not sure whether that hurts other cities too much to be worth it though.

 

[WastinTime]

why are you bothering to get Istanbul to make a GP? I thought we changed that plan. Are you still trying to bulb Philo?

lh in Alexa? Are you saying you're able to make up the 1pop and then some? I'm having trouble imagining that.