LowtherCastle
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Thank you kindly. 
SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants
- Thread starter AlanH
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LowtherCastle
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WT, what's your best estimate for Banking starting the GA on T103?
LowtherCastle
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I don't see us getting all 4 GMs before the early T130s. Where does that put us in terms of teching by hand? Does that mean we don't need the second Edu bulb?
Banking
.hmmm...r we in Caste or slavery?
.hmmm...r we in Caste or slavery?
LowtherCastle
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We switch pretty soon, I think.
T109 Banking. Should be no problem getting 109 if....if you have the $$$ to keep 100% research.
We should average at least 500 final-bpt during the early golden age 103-108.
And that's without caste.
we get Feudalism 104 (or 105 with lots of beaker overflow)
Guilds is 3t, Banking is 2t
LowtherCastle
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Thanks. So T110 so be fairly certain, right?
Yea, we may have to re-think this. Last time we visited our GA research we were starting Engineering around T114 and I was using a conservative estimate of ~750 fbpt.
Again...assuming 100% research, I'm seeing at least 1000-1200 fbpt. And now with the early 3rd GAage, we get Engineering T111, Gunpowder T113....then what? we could start Paper, but need to bulb Chem before we finish it. We might be able to bulb Chem 113, but let's say 114.
Then it's 4t to Steel. T118 (cannon anyone?)
We may want to cut the last golden age. Maybe just go for 1000 gpp or 1200.
That's 8-9 bulbs. (chem, edu, ppress, econ, RR, RR, RR, RR)
If we do 9, it could be an early GM for trade mission (for upgrades).
The 2nd bulb for Chem and Edu are wasteful.
and try to get Railroad around T124.
Now conquest is for sure the long pole.
We should re-focus on upgrading to Knights and building more of them.
I'm sure glad it's not my turnset!
We should re-focus on upgrading to Knights and building more of them.
I'm sure glad it's not my turnset!
Man, this is wild.
Now I'm thinking we bulb Philo so we don't waste hammers on Paya to focus on units.
(also makes the barb problem in the south go away since the GS is not used right away)
We'd have to start the GAge with the Artist.
But then we're back to needing a non-GS for the 2nd golden age.
Going this route would make it very hard to get a GM trade mission if we were thinking we wanted that. I don't think we can make that work, so bulbing Philo seems like a good use of the 9th GP.
Now I'm thinking we bulb Philo so we don't waste hammers on Paya to focus on units.
(also makes the barb problem in the south go away since the GS is not used right away)
We'd have to start the GAge with the Artist.
But then we're back to needing a non-GS for the 2nd golden age.
Going this route would make it very hard to get a GM trade mission if we were thinking we wanted that. I don't think we can make that work, so bulbing Philo seems like a good use of the 9th GP.
Now we can be more prepared if the game forces us to go for Oil.
Alexa, for example, would be well on it's way to the 1400 gpp GS. We're gonna want to run scientists there and other places anyway just for organic research, so maybe we plan for GSs 1400 and 1600 to be born post-railroad.
Alexa, for example, would be well on it's way to the 1400 gpp GS. We're gonna want to run scientists there and other places anyway just for organic research, so maybe we plan for GSs 1400 and 1600 to be born post-railroad.
LowtherCastle
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Summarizing:
~T103 GA#1: Bulb Philo, revolt to Pacifism+ (Have you included the costs for the Pacifism unit maintenance?)
GS (200)
GM (300)
~T111 GA#2
GS (400) Chem
GS (500) Chem (were you single-bulbing Chem?)
GS (600) Edu
GS (700) PP
GM (800) Econ
GM (900)
GM (1000)
GM (1200)
GM (1400)
GM (1600) (earlier some time for Trade Mission)
If we can free Fredburg from GP duties, we have two solid unit producers. Our workers will become idle so attacking Russia sooner or later will provide a ton of chops and capturegold.
~T103 GA#1: Bulb Philo, revolt to Pacifism+ (Have you included the costs for the Pacifism unit maintenance?)
GS (200)
GM (300)
~T111 GA#2
GS (400) Chem
GS (500) Chem (were you single-bulbing Chem?)
GS (600) Edu
GS (700) PP
GM (800) Econ
GM (900)
GM (1000)
GM (1200)
GM (1400)
GM (1600) (earlier some time for Trade Mission)
If we can free Fredburg from GP duties, we have two solid unit producers. Our workers will become idle so attacking Russia sooner or later will provide a ton of chops and capturegold.
pacifism units maint. usually negligible cus the civic upkeep drops.
single bulb chem. Pretty sure we won't be able to get 1400 and 1600 during 2nd golden age.
single bulb chem. Pretty sure we won't be able to get 1400 and 1600 during 2nd golden age.
LowtherCastle
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We're ORganized. We save 8g on Pacifism and currently have 34 military units, with free support for 10. That about -16gpt, right? Plus creeping inflation.
free support will go up as we grow our cities.
vassalage should help too.
LowtherCastle
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WT, how late can the PP GS be?
So far I've got:
So far I've got:
Code:
200 T105 GS Alexa GA#2
300 T110 GM Istanbul GA#2
400 T112 GS Alexa Chem
500 T116 GS Paris Edu
600 T118 GM Munich Econ
700 T119 GS Alexa PP
800 T120 GM Hamburg RROdd that I don't see Thebes in the list yet. I thought that's our killer city. I had it doing as much as 122 gpp/t, but with HG it's 129.
I would think Thebes does the 500 and the 1000 or 1200.
--------------------------------
Anyway, to answer your question, all I can do is use ~1000 bpt and walk thru the tech.
The answer seems to be that we need the GS born t120...edit: actually, we could swap Econ first and PPress could be bulbed as late as 121, but earlier is better.
(tech is shown the turn we learned it. Not like a PPP where we show the turn we research it)
109 Banking
111 Engineering (w OF)
112 or 113 GunP
114 Chem
118 Steel (small OF)
119 Paper (more OF)
120 Edu (massive OF)
(bulb PPress)
121 PPress (extreme OF)
(bulb Econ)
122 Econ (~2000 overflow)
123 RepParts
124 Liberalism/ Steam/5-bulb RR, workers can RR if we have coal connected! Idle workers should mine and road mines that are not river-connected. No windmills.
125 game is won... ideally.
I would think Thebes does the 500 and the 1000 or 1200.
--------------------------------
Anyway, to answer your question, all I can do is use ~1000 bpt and walk thru the tech.
The answer seems to be that we need the GS born t120...edit: actually, we could swap Econ first and PPress could be bulbed as late as 121, but earlier is better.
(tech is shown the turn we learned it. Not like a PPP where we show the turn we research it)
109 Banking
111 Engineering (w OF)
112 or 113 GunP
114 Chem
118 Steel (small OF)
119 Paper (more OF)
120 Edu (massive OF)
(bulb PPress)
121 PPress (extreme OF)
(bulb Econ)
122 Econ (~2000 overflow)
123 RepParts
124 Liberalism/ Steam/5-bulb RR, workers can RR if we have coal connected! Idle workers should mine and road mines that are not river-connected. No windmills.
125 game is won... ideally.
The above plan was done using 1000 final bpt(including the 20% bonus for readers that don't know that expression). I think I'm still being conservative, and if we have a slight money problem we're still on track. Let's double check it.
Here are the assumptions I used:
T103, after the GAge is triggered, we should be around 400 bpt which is 480 final bpt.
It might be a little less than that to start, but over the 8t, it will average 500 f-bpt.
T109 We've grown our cities, switch to Caste/Merc/Pacifism/etc. We may not be able to run all our specialists this early, but over the course of the next 12 turns we should have ~80 specialists per turn.
To get 80, roughly, I used the fact that 10 cities will have just 1 merc scientist,
and another 10 will be GP farms. Those average about 7 specialists each for 70 specialists...even if Fredburg and Berlin dial back their GP farm effort.
So 80 specialists. Let's say on average, 35 merc and 45 sci.
Obviously, early on, it will be more like 40-40, but as we get GM's the cities can switch to sci.
gold:
So, we can expect about 120 gpt at the start, dropping down later, averaging 105 gpt
beakers:
375 raw from the specialists.
+100 from effect on the 375 for academy/library
= 475
= ~570 final-bpt just from specialists.
So this is where I came up with ~1000.
It's the 500 we can do without any specialists plus 570 for the specialist effect.
Naturally, as more conquered cities come out of revolt, our bpt keeps going up as long as we can pay the city maint. This is why I see 1000 bpt as conservative.
btw, I love the fact that we can sustain 1000 bpt well before 1 AD. I usually consider 500 to be good at 1 AD. Thank god for the Pyramids...or in this case thank Hatty...or thank BSP--pre-game I worried that he built and destroyed them or put them out of reach.
Here are the assumptions I used:
T103, after the GAge is triggered, we should be around 400 bpt which is 480 final bpt.
It might be a little less than that to start, but over the 8t, it will average 500 f-bpt.
T109 We've grown our cities, switch to Caste/Merc/Pacifism/etc. We may not be able to run all our specialists this early, but over the course of the next 12 turns we should have ~80 specialists per turn.
To get 80, roughly, I used the fact that 10 cities will have just 1 merc scientist,
and another 10 will be GP farms. Those average about 7 specialists each for 70 specialists...even if Fredburg and Berlin dial back their GP farm effort.
So 80 specialists. Let's say on average, 35 merc and 45 sci.
Obviously, early on, it will be more like 40-40, but as we get GM's the cities can switch to sci.
gold:
So, we can expect about 120 gpt at the start, dropping down later, averaging 105 gpt
beakers:
375 raw from the specialists.
+100 from effect on the 375 for academy/library
= 475
= ~570 final-bpt just from specialists.
So this is where I came up with ~1000.
It's the 500 we can do without any specialists plus 570 for the specialist effect.
Naturally, as more conquered cities come out of revolt, our bpt keeps going up as long as we can pay the city maint. This is why I see 1000 bpt as conservative.
btw, I love the fact that we can sustain 1000 bpt well before 1 AD. I usually consider 500 to be good at 1 AD. Thank god for the Pyramids...or in this case thank Hatty...or thank BSP--pre-game I worried that he built and destroyed them or put them out of reach.
If 1 turning RepParts and Liberalism back-to-back is tight (which I doubt), we have the power to run many many more scientists those last 2 turns, so this should never be a problem.
This leads me to wondering if we can shave off a turn. It's hard because we are doing 1 tech per turn after Steel. So the only way to do it is get some of that beaker overflow early and use it to 3t Steel instead of 4t. Now, maybe you just want the cannons, but if not, here's a plan to cut off 1t research...
109 Banking
111 Engineering (w OF)
112 or 113 GunP
114 Chem
115 Paper
(1t of steel + chem and paper overflow)
117 Edu
(1t steel + Edu overflow)
119 Econ
120 Steel
(bulb PPress)
121 PPress
122 RepParts
123 Liberalism/ Steam/5-bulb RR, workers can RR if we have coal connected! Idle workers should mine and road mines that are not river-connected. No windmills.
124 game is won... ideally.
This leads me to wondering if we can shave off a turn. It's hard because we are doing 1 tech per turn after Steel. So the only way to do it is get some of that beaker overflow early and use it to 3t Steel instead of 4t. Now, maybe you just want the cannons, but if not, here's a plan to cut off 1t research...
109 Banking
111 Engineering (w OF)
112 or 113 GunP
114 Chem
115 Paper
(1t of steel + chem and paper overflow)
117 Edu
(1t steel + Edu overflow)
119 Econ
120 Steel
(bulb PPress)
121 PPress
122 RepParts
123 Liberalism/ Steam/5-bulb RR, workers can RR if we have coal connected! Idle workers should mine and road mines that are not river-connected. No windmills.
124 game is won... ideally.
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