SGOTM 23 - Unusual Suspects

nocho · Aug 5, 2016

Good job, Ron! :goodjob:

All seems perfectly in order now, so no need for any more upgrades indeed nor indiscriminate use of the whip. Science can go back on I think, would be nice to get some musketeers rolling.

@Deckhand, answer to trivial question 1, yes... I took the warrior from England and sent him back to the continent for MP duties, I think in Paris. He was done scouting anyway. Last I remembered about the warrior in the Far East was sending him to Mongolia. Maybe he was close to Russia when Stalin declared.

Zhary · Aug 5, 2016

Good job Ron :goodjob:

Maybe you starteda little bit fast, I was thinking about set up a test of the fight but ok.

@Deckhand: The warrior was in russia when Stalin declared. he was sent to the Black sea right next to our Black sea exploring galley so I put him on it in case Stalin had a nearby 2 step unit.
The himalay chariot was set in the border between China and India to see if Mao would send a stack on Gandi also to see the progress in that hypotetical very likely war.

Zhary · Aug 5, 2016

Wow

I missed that Stalin stack was completely gone! Great work Ron :goodjob:

Some notes:
The idea with having a super medic the weakest unit is that he wont defend a stack in case of an attack. Now when he is a knoght he will be the defender against for example x-bows and he could be killed ok its safe against persia and we will get more GGs but still I think its things to discuss.

That scientist from Le Havre is close to be ready and is ideal to bulb chemistry on our way to RR. It would be better to skip a cottage or two until he is ready.

kcd_swede · Aug 5, 2016

Zhary said:
Wow I missed that Stalin stack was completely gone! Great work Ron

Some notes:
The idea with having a super medic the weakest unit is that he wont defend a stack in case of an attack. Now when he is a knoght he will be the defender against for example x-bows and he could be killed ok its safe against persia and we will get more GGs but still I think its things to discuss.

That scientist from Le Havre is close to be ready and is ideal to bulb chemistry on our way to RR. It would be better to skip a cottage or two until he is ready.

I also cringed on seeing that gg medic knight, assumed it was an emergency - otherwise a mistake. Agree we should discuss those things.

bulb chem - yes.

Ronnie1 · Aug 5, 2016

There were 2 promoted axes moving from Persepolis down to Susa. I was a little short on superior killing units and needed the extra power. You have to take some chances somewhere.

We just had another GG born, so we have medic potential.

Wow I missed that Stalin stack was completely gone!

Indeed! Experience told me to make a stand on the hill across the river. I knew we would take losses facing all that siege, so may as well penalize them some at the river. Once I sacked the treb, (forgot about that in my earlier report) and got decent odds on the only healthy unit he as done! Chasing the remnants back to mother Russia and cutting off reinforcements to Hamburg.

Ronnie1 · Aug 6, 2016

PPP to the elimination of Persia, 2-4 turns.

Hatty is 1 turn to Engineering, she will give us 65 golf for it now, I will do that and that almost allows GP in 2 turns @ 100% science. We could sell Feud to Mao for 100 gold also. After GP? Philosophy so we can bulb Chemistry? 0% on something anyway for a few turns. The GSci will bulb Philo before Chem.

Paris - knights...
Bordeaux - knights...
Le Havre - treb
Nice - cat > treb
Athens - treb
Rome - Moai > LB
Cologne - Forge
Lisbon - Grocer
Berlin - knight > treb
Munich - Forge
Barcelona - Barracks
Istanbul - Barracks
Edrine - LB > Forge
Ankara - WB > Lighthouse
Bursa - Granary
Pasargadae - Forge

Russian front, isolate Hamburg, watch for counter attacks.
New super medic for a new front with the GG.

Workers, chop forests everywhere.
Improve resources when cities come out of revolt.

Stop if anything unexpected happens or when Persia is eliminated.

kcd_swede · Aug 6, 2016

Green

nocho · Aug 6, 2016

Go for it!

Green.

Zhary · Aug 6, 2016

Green

With Mom so close we might consider going for nat again. Even before steel. Chemistry is the best thing we can bulb on our way to Rr so that we should do.

Ronnie1 · Aug 6, 2016

Played 4 turns, Persia almost dead, but they have a city in the north between Russia and Mongolia.

We have teched GP and Philo and we got our GSci for Chemistry!

We captured Hamburg and are bombarding the next city on the way to Moscow.

I cold whipped a CH in Pasargadae because it was going to starve when it came out of revolt.

We can 2 pop whip CH's with 1 turn invested so I did that in Istanbul.

The autolog

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nocho · Aug 6, 2016

Nice work, Ron.

Hatty will peace vassal! I think we should very seriously consider it. She's obviously a very good techer and will be of great use to do some teching for us. We can even get her to tech something else than liberalism and lib something expensive ourselves, something like steel, steam power or even rail road.

I think taking Hatty as a vassal will probably speed things up more than being able to vassal the last AI standing (not to mention we'll have to attack one AI less

).

Zhary · Aug 6, 2016

I also think that hatty is a nice vassal. Do you have any skill in how to decide the tech path of the your vassals? I'm never done that before.

Deckhand · Aug 6, 2016

Zhary said:
I also think that hatty is a nice vassal. Do you have any skill in how to decide the tech path of the your vassals? I'm never done that before.

Easy Peasy, there is a dialog option (under lets discuss something else iirc) to direct their research.

I concur w Hatty vassal. Plus that will cancel her culture impacting Athens.

We should give some thought about when to take on Churchill. And there are some islands in SEA.

I think I'm up. Anyone available can take it. Otherwise I will do a PPP tonight or tomorrow night.

Deckhand · Aug 6, 2016

Thoughts about Path Forward

Tech Path to RailRoad:
Chemistry, Banking, Paper, Printing Press, Replaceable Parts, Steam Power, Steel, Railroad

To Liberalism: Paper, Education, Liberalism

Peace Vassal Hatty, Trade Guilds for Paper and Aesthetics (ask for Paper and Theology first),

We Tech: Chemistry (bulb 1914/2691), Nationalism (Build Taj in Bordeaux), Steel, Liberalism (up to 1 turn away), Steam Power, Railroad from Liberalism

Hatty Tech: Education, Printing Press, Banking, Replaceable Parts

Hatty subsequent trades: Chemistry for Education, Steel for Banking & Printing Press; Nationalism (after Taj built) for Replaceable Parts
assumes she is comparable techer – she may not keep up; note - direct her tech path each turn (ensure she doesn't get Liberalism)

(edit, this plan does not consider the great people we might get)
Consider whether Economics for GM (money or Golden Age) is worth it at some point?

Armies keep moving east:
Army Group North: Russia, Mongolia
Army Group South: Persia, India, China
new Expeditionary Force: England
Let Hatty fight Arabia for us, if we can direct her to Jerusalem then declare on Arabia after Jerusalem captured

Rename Cities

Questions:
Golden Age – wait for Taj or with next Great Person;
Civics wait for GA, switch to ?
Great People Plan

edit, need Caravel asap in Indian Ocean to explore SEA - do we need Astronomy?

Deckhand · Aug 7, 2016

City Builds and Armies

in general:
only whip where excess food and take workers from unimproved tiles;
build knights where stables, build musketeers in other barracks cities, build garrison longbows in cities without barracks

City Builds and suggested renames (better ideas solicited)
Paris - knights...
Bordeaux – knights, Taj Mahal
Le Havre – musketeer, galley
Nice - treb
Athens – treb
Rome – Barracks, Treb
Cologne - Treb
Lisbon – Grocer, galley
Berlin - knight
Munich – Forge, Courthouse (?) rename Rostock
Barcelona – Pike, Musket
Istanbul – Musketeers
Edirne - Forge rename Ankarra
Ankara – Courthouse, caravel, Barracks rename Kuwait
Bursa – Granary, longbow rename Baghdad
Pasargadae - Forge rename Karachi
Hamburg – Forge
Persepolis – Forge rename Tehran
Susa - Forge rename Mumbai
Ecbatana – depends on surviving infrastructure, rename Volgograd
Yaroslavl – depends on surviving infrastructure, rename Gdansk
Rostov – depends on surviving infrastructure, rename Warsaw

For Churchill – 3 galleys can drop 12 units off before dieing (drop 6, move back, reload, end turn, drop off six more); build 2 galleys (in LeHavre & Lisbon) and move Mediterranean Galley to North Sea
Move Black Sea galley to pick up worker on Spice Island
5 Trebuchets, 3 knights, 2 musketeers, 2 longbows
Question: how many units to build in western europe destined for Asia before switching to build Expeditionary Force?
Suggestion: declare on England about same time as declare on Mongolia

edit, this was left out:
Option 1:
Armies keep moving east:
Army Group North: Russia, Mongolia
Army Group South: Persia, India, China

Option 2:
Army Group North: Russia, Mongolia
Army Group South: Persia, divert Armies (Ecbatana & Perseopolis etc) to Russia: Krasnoyarsk & Novgorad
then after Russia conquered, northern group takes North path thru Mongolia while southern group takes southern Mongolia followed by China; and India last

new Expeditionary Force: England
Let Hatty fight Arabia for us, if we can direct her to Jerusalem then declare on Arabia after Jerusalem captured

Deckhand · Aug 7, 2016

What else needs to be considered?
What am I forgetting?

Keep espionage on Hatty to know what she is researching. Won't matter versus others?

Great People? (not on my turn set)

edit - please provide feedback on plans "today", then I will turn it into a PPP (my) tomorrow [or is someone else available?]

nocho · Aug 7, 2016

I don't think renaming is very urgent any more, but feel free. I'd rename Munich Rotterdam though.

And I don't think Ankara is anywhere near Kuwait. :mischief:

For guilds I would rather get aesthetics than theology with paper, see to get literature next. Even one turn research on it may be worth it, I think we should get the Heroic Epic up in Berlin. National Epic bothers me less, but why not (Lisbon I suppose).

Maybe we should tech nationalism before chemistry and keep the GS on hold. The more we grow and conquer, the more the GS will bulb, while chemistry by itself doesn't give much of an immediate benefit, does it? Sooner nationalism means sooner Taj, I think we also want the draft.

I think EP can go on somebody else, as a vassal we'll see Hatty's tech anyway, won't we?

kcd_swede · Aug 7, 2016

Do I understand correctly... we will tech Nationalism and build the Taj for the sole purpose of a golden age? Kinda berfs the golden age having to use 2000+ beakers and few hundred hammers. Can't se it speeding up victory by very much.

If Nationalism was a critical tech, its a lot easier to swollow.

Be careful about what tech you pursue before bulbing Chem. It is very easy to wreck that bulb path.

I'm good with the Hatty peace vasal. It fels almost like cheating. :blush:

Greeen.

Deckhand · Aug 7, 2016

We need to decide on Nationalism and Tech order before playing.

Also need to decide what path to take with Persia army.
I favor Option 2. Sooner Russia is dead, the sooner we attack Mongolia and reach Far East (plus sooner MoM, which only matters if/when we have a GA).

nocho · Aug 7, 2016

Nationalism would be for the draft too. Three extra 2-move units per turn drafted from Russian cities should help a lot with conquering the far east. If through Taj that's break even on total tech cost, then it's a positive to me.

Btw, Deckhand, don't see how we can drop off 12 units in England with 3 galleys without risk. After unloading the first time they'd be exposed already wouldn't they? That's assuming we offload next to London.

SGOTM 23 - Unusual Suspects

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