Green on T+1 DOW with upgrades. We will not want to stop at Istanbul
, and keep our power high enough to avoid backstabbing by AI.
, and keep our power high enough to avoid backstabbing by AI.
SGOTM 23 - Unusual Suspects
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I've played 4 turns until capturing Istanbul which comes with an academy and forge.
Gandhi or Darius cancelled some deals leaving us without (I think) silver and ivory, which all of a sudden gave unhappy faces in Paris. Got spices from the Arabs though and moved in a unit on the road.
Sold monarchy for polytheism and 70 gold to Church which gave a diplo plus, but not enough to get him to pleased. Churchill may not be too much of a problem anyway though. Stalin looks scarier, he has quite the SoD in Hamburg. He has no red fist yet though. But should watch that.
Mehmed retreated some units to Istanbul the turn before we attacked. He had actually quite some units approaching in on Jerusalem. We have visibility right now too on Jerusalem with a chariot (although we don't see the Ottoman units any more which were NE of Jerusalem). I feared a bit Mehmed the unit spammer would get more units back to his capital if I started bombarding it down, so sacrificed 2 cats, but all other units were victorious.
We're now 2 turns from engineering, would like to play at least until there tomorrow or Sunday, or maybe a few more if we know what next tech will be. Feudalism on the road to guilds? Or just hoard some cash?
Save
Gandhi or Darius cancelled some deals leaving us without (I think) silver and ivory, which all of a sudden gave unhappy faces in Paris. Got spices from the Arabs though and moved in a unit on the road.
Sold monarchy for polytheism and 70 gold to Church which gave a diplo plus, but not enough to get him to pleased. Churchill may not be too much of a problem anyway though. Stalin looks scarier, he has quite the SoD in Hamburg. He has no red fist yet though. But should watch that.
Mehmed retreated some units to Istanbul the turn before we attacked. He had actually quite some units approaching in on Jerusalem. We have visibility right now too on Jerusalem with a chariot (although we don't see the Ottoman units any more which were NE of Jerusalem). I feared a bit Mehmed the unit spammer would get more units back to his capital if I started bombarding it down, so sacrificed 2 cats, but all other units were victorious.
We're now 2 turns from engineering, would like to play at least until there tomorrow or Sunday, or maybe a few more if we know what next tech will be. Feudalism on the road to guilds? Or just hoard some cash?
Save
Spoiler :
Ronnie1
Deity
Looking good nocho!
Feud > Guilds are next on the list on the way to RR!
That is a nice stack in Hamburg.
Do we want a barracks in Berlin before we start producing units?
Feud > Guilds are next on the list on the way to RR!
That is a nice stack in Hamburg.
Do we want a barracks in Berlin before we start producing units?
Looking good nocho!
Feud > Guilds are next on the list on the way to RR!
That is a nice stack in Hamburg.
Agree! Nice job!
Continued plan for the next 5-6 turns, would like to play in 24 to 30 hours from now.
Paris: forge, units
Bordeaux: units. Maybe Moai when stone online?
Le Havre: forge
Nice: forge, units
Athens: forge, barracks
Rome: forge, barracks
Cologne: cats
Lisbon: maces
Berlin: barracks, units
Munich: library
Barcelona: forge
Istanbul: granary
Tech: engineering, feudalism, guilds
Army: march on to Edirne with 4 maces (3 healed, 1 @6.6/8), 4 cats, 1 axe, 1 spear, supermedic will follow suit later. Archer and mace (@3.8/8) stay at Istanbul. Advance will be determined by Ottoman troop movement, specifically those near Jerusalem whether they return or not. If so, maybe 2 of the advancing units should return to Istanbul while waiting for reinforcements to arrive from the southern Alps (Portuguese veterans).
Trade: take HBR+15g from Church for Calendar.
Workers: general improvements.
Units: directing to the front. Should look to get some buffer in Berlin and Munich, maybe some xbows.
Scouting: scout units keep up their good work.
Stopping points, any of:
- 5-6 turns played
- Anything unexpected that requires team input
Paris: forge, units
Bordeaux: units. Maybe Moai when stone online?
Le Havre: forge
Nice: forge, units
Athens: forge, barracks
Rome: forge, barracks
Cologne: cats
Lisbon: maces
Berlin: barracks, units
Munich: library
Barcelona: forge
Istanbul: granary
Tech: engineering, feudalism, guilds
Army: march on to Edirne with 4 maces (3 healed, 1 @6.6/8), 4 cats, 1 axe, 1 spear, supermedic will follow suit later. Archer and mace (@3.8/8) stay at Istanbul. Advance will be determined by Ottoman troop movement, specifically those near Jerusalem whether they return or not. If so, maybe 2 of the advancing units should return to Istanbul while waiting for reinforcements to arrive from the southern Alps (Portuguese veterans).
Trade: take HBR+15g from Church for Calendar.
Workers: general improvements.
Units: directing to the front. Should look to get some buffer in Berlin and Munich, maybe some xbows.
Scouting: scout units keep up their good work.
Stopping points, any of:
- 5-6 turns played
- Anything unexpected that requires team input
Ronnie1
Deity
Green!
Green!
With all this green unison went ahead and played.
We are 6 turns further down the road and all went quite according to plan, with the Ottomans, or Ottomen, dead. Mehmed sillily kept his army looking at the 6 archers defending Jerusalem (with 150% defense btw) while his Anatolian home ground got rampaged by the French. Pretty futile resistance, I think I just lost 1 more cat and our scouting chariot near Jerusalem.
We got engineering and feudalism, 3 turns away from guilds. We got monotheism for HBR from someone, resold mono to Church for 90g or something.
Gandhi is not very popular with his neighbours, but has supplied us with 4 happy resources (3 calendar+ivory). Gave him copper so he can boost himself a bit as China is redfisted. Gandhi is actually offering himseld as a vassal right now! If it weren't for the 1-vassal limit I'd immediately take it, now not so sure anymore of course.
We also got silver back from Darius, but will have our own from Turkey. I presume we'll be declaring on Darius anyway in a not very distant future. Most of our units are closeby anyway, some healing in Ankara, some still at the gates of Bursa (last city to fall). Also a steady flow of units coming in from the Balkans, hurray for Engineering to speed things up!
Stalin is keeping his stack in Hamburg, looks to be increasing too. He's not redfisted though. I would accede to nearly any demand that's not entirely unreasonable, it should bump him to pleased. A stop trading demand vs Gandhi (his WE) would be most painful with the 4 happies we get, maybe we should stipulate what to do in that case. I did get some reserve units in Munich and Berlin, but not enough to stop hm obviously. Then again, with guilds coming in and then GP, buffering up shouldn't be too problematic anymore. Also if his SoD is out in the open it should be quite easy to kill it off once we have those techs. So it boils down a bit on timing. Actually, if we do kill off that SoD and capture some of his cities, he might vassal relatively early. Could be an option for after Darius.
We are 6 turns further down the road and all went quite according to plan, with the Ottomans, or Ottomen, dead. Mehmed sillily kept his army looking at the 6 archers defending Jerusalem (with 150% defense btw) while his Anatolian home ground got rampaged by the French. Pretty futile resistance, I think I just lost 1 more cat and our scouting chariot near Jerusalem.
We got engineering and feudalism, 3 turns away from guilds. We got monotheism for HBR from someone, resold mono to Church for 90g or something.
Gandhi is not very popular with his neighbours, but has supplied us with 4 happy resources (3 calendar+ivory). Gave him copper so he can boost himself a bit as China is redfisted. Gandhi is actually offering himseld as a vassal right now! If it weren't for the 1-vassal limit I'd immediately take it, now not so sure anymore of course.
We also got silver back from Darius, but will have our own from Turkey. I presume we'll be declaring on Darius anyway in a not very distant future. Most of our units are closeby anyway, some healing in Ankara, some still at the gates of Bursa (last city to fall). Also a steady flow of units coming in from the Balkans, hurray for Engineering to speed things up!
Stalin is keeping his stack in Hamburg, looks to be increasing too. He's not redfisted though. I would accede to nearly any demand that's not entirely unreasonable, it should bump him to pleased. A stop trading demand vs Gandhi (his WE) would be most painful with the 4 happies we get, maybe we should stipulate what to do in that case. I did get some reserve units in Munich and Berlin, but not enough to stop hm obviously. Then again, with guilds coming in and then GP, buffering up shouldn't be too problematic anymore. Also if his SoD is out in the open it should be quite easy to kill it off once we have those techs. So it boils down a bit on timing. Actually, if we do kill off that SoD and capture some of his cities, he might vassal relatively early. Could be an option for after Darius.
Spoiler :
Getting early vassal is no advantage at Monarch level, unless you will win by cascading vassal conquest - which we can't. I'd wait till the last AI to take vassal to speed conquest, or if we go diplo take out the most annoying and make them vote for us.
Anyhow, great job! Lets keep the train of destruction rolling toward the orient! Once there, we will be in good position to reach any AI from our territory.
Anyhow, great job! Lets keep the train of destruction rolling toward the orient! Once there, we will be in good position to reach any AI from our territory.
Ronnie1
Deity
I concur with swede, great job!
I don't see the benefit of an early vassal right now either.
I do see the benefit of taking Persepolis and eliminating the Persians in short order and being in position to move on to Mongolia.
I don't see the benefit of an early vassal right now either.
I do see the benefit of taking Persepolis and eliminating the Persians in short order and being in position to move on to Mongolia.
Good Zhary. Stuff at work is accelerating for me next week.
End game plans:
None of Nat, edu or lib is on the beeeeeline to RR and therefore I have made some "is it worth it" calculations for oxford+draft+lib. As reference points I use RR@t190 and Conq@t210.
Oxford:
Edu cost us 2600 and atm we also need paper@900. Even if we skip guilds+GP we won't have edu online for at least ~12 turns then its 20 more turns to finish oxford. So say in 32 turns edu earn us 120 bpt and we would have earned the detour at 3500/120=~30 turns later. But in 60 turns we have rr so its not really worth it.
Nat:
This will cost us 2600 but we will get a GA and can draft muskeeters. Since Stalin has the MoM we have to settle with a 8 turn GA. Based on our tile use we have ~120 extra hammers and commerce per turn ie the earn is 120*8-350=610. At the same time we could use CS-Nat civic switch w/o anarchy. Each drafted musketeers would save us 50 hammers compared to a whip so ~150 h/turn here but We lose ~50 c in Paris so say about 100 hpt. The gain for Nat is then 800+600 far below the 2600 it will cost us. Even counting hammer=2 commerce wont be enough to motivate the detour.
Lib:
Hatty is close to lib my guess is that she is going there in ~15 turns after Machinery so it will be a race. She both have paper and philo on us so I think we will loose it and even if we wonb we could only lib something that is as much worth as lib itself are. The only gain would be FR then but until RR it only saves us 2500 beakers on the 10% ie the cost of edu.
But we have a Scienist comming online soon and if we skip paper the bulb order is philo>chem. If we steal/tech/trade philo we could bulb chemistry and then we are only 10 turns from cannons. Which could be used to blast Stalins SoD to the artic ocean in seconds. Plus Stalin has the MoM which means that 36 turn GA Ron wanted is not impossible.
Another plus if we skip nat and edu is that GMerch wont be able to bulb const and Corp. The merch bulbable tech on the rr beeline then is:
Banking+Paper+Railroad+Printing Press+Replaceable Parts
ie a lot. If we whip market+grocer in lisbon we could do GM@14GPP/t
So here are my endgame plan:
Tech:
Guilds
GP
Philo (trade/steal)
Chem (bulb)
Steel
Bank->Paper->PP->RP->SP->RR(bulbs with merch when avail)
Attack:
Work our way through the middle and far east with Knights+muskeets. Attack russia when cannons are online.
GA starts once we have captured Novgorod(MoM). If taj is still available then the Nat detour would be worth it.
None of Nat, edu or lib is on the beeeeeline to RR and therefore I have made some "is it worth it" calculations for oxford+draft+lib. As reference points I use RR@t190 and Conq@t210.
Oxford:
Edu cost us 2600 and atm we also need paper@900. Even if we skip guilds+GP we won't have edu online for at least ~12 turns then its 20 more turns to finish oxford. So say in 32 turns edu earn us 120 bpt and we would have earned the detour at 3500/120=~30 turns later. But in 60 turns we have rr so its not really worth it.
Nat:
This will cost us 2600 but we will get a GA and can draft muskeeters. Since Stalin has the MoM we have to settle with a 8 turn GA. Based on our tile use we have ~120 extra hammers and commerce per turn ie the earn is 120*8-350=610. At the same time we could use CS-Nat civic switch w/o anarchy. Each drafted musketeers would save us 50 hammers compared to a whip so ~150 h/turn here but We lose ~50 c in Paris so say about 100 hpt. The gain for Nat is then 800+600 far below the 2600 it will cost us. Even counting hammer=2 commerce wont be enough to motivate the detour.
Lib:
Hatty is close to lib my guess is that she is going there in ~15 turns after Machinery so it will be a race. She both have paper and philo on us so I think we will loose it and even if we wonb we could only lib something that is as much worth as lib itself are. The only gain would be FR then but until RR it only saves us 2500 beakers on the 10% ie the cost of edu.
But we have a Scienist comming online soon and if we skip paper the bulb order is philo>chem. If we steal/tech/trade philo we could bulb chemistry and then we are only 10 turns from cannons. Which could be used to blast Stalins SoD to the artic ocean in seconds
. Plus Stalin has the MoM which means that 36 turn GA Ron wanted is not impossible.Another plus if we skip nat and edu is that GMerch wont be able to bulb const and Corp. The merch bulbable tech on the rr beeline then is:
Banking+Paper+Railroad+Printing Press+Replaceable Parts
ie a lot. If we whip market+grocer in lisbon we could do GM@14GPP/t
So here are my endgame plan:
Tech:
Guilds
GP
Philo (trade/steal)
Chem (bulb)
Steel
Bank->Paper->PP->RP->SP->RR(bulbs with merch when avail)
Attack:
Work our way through the middle and far east with Knights+muskeets. Attack russia when cannons are online.
GA starts once we have captured Novgorod(MoM). If taj is still available then the Nat detour would be worth it.
PPP until Persia is captured or GP is in:
Overall plan:Eliminate Persia
heal the troops first.
Tech:
Guilds+GP
Builds:
workers:
Didnt see anything spectacular that need to be fixed so I will just improve tiles here and there.
Diplo:
Don't give in to demands(except techs to russia). Sell worthless techs if people got the money to buy it. Don't give in to demands.
Stops:
Stalin shows a red fist!
We get attacked(It is a small possibilty that Sal is targeting us)
Overall plan:Eliminate Persia
heal the troops first.Tech:
Guilds+GP
Builds:
Spoiler :
workers:
Didnt see anything spectacular that need to be fixed so I will just improve tiles here and there.
Diplo:
Don't give in to demands(except techs to russia). Sell worthless techs if people got the money to buy it. Don't give in to demands.
Stops:
Stalin shows a red fist!
We get attacked(It is a small possibilty that Sal is targeting us)
Ronnie1
Deity
Pause evry 5-6 turns please, there is a lot going on.
What is the spy build intended for?
Do we need Courthouses yet?
What buildings do any/all future cities really need?
The market and grocer whips in Lisbon, a little more detail please on whip timing.
Will Moai pay back in Rome?
What is the spy build intended for?
Do we need Courthouses yet?
What buildings do any/all future cities really need?
The market and grocer whips in Lisbon, a little more detail please on whip timing.
Will Moai pay back in Rome?
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