Detailed walkthrough for T29 settler.
T5 Hunting>AH
T12 worker>warrior. Worker moves to deer.
T17 AH>mining. Deer camped, worker moves to cows.
T18 Paris pop2, work deer and fur to complete warrior.
T19 warrior>settler (13t). Move warrior towards site#2 (depends on whether we find horses and/or decision re Glight).
T21. Cows pastured. Work deer and cows (settler 11t>8t).
T22-23 worker moves to wheat..
T23 Mining>fishing.
T24 worker starts wheat.
T28 move missionary to Paris. Wheat farmed end of turn. [Moving missionary means losing nw spawn-busting but pops borders for city#2 earlier, we could delay city#2 (or keep it uncultured) until we have a replacement spawnbuster.]
T29 settler>warrior, work deer and cows, start warrior (warrior in 3, grow in 3). Move settler and missionary to site#2, move worker to fur (mproving fur gives +3c in 4 turns, building connecting roads gives +2c in 4 turns).
Working deer and wheat on T18 gives +1f but also gives T20 warrior, T30 settler, delaying city#2 by 1 turn.
Back to the real game: I'm still not totally convinced re fog-busting because in my various tests NW tile stays fogged until Paris pops borders at T50. However there's a lot I don't know so I'll follow Dhoomstriker's advice re spawn-busting placement.
Plan for T4
unselect research
missionary S>NE
scout SW>S
warrior SE
Plan for T5.
select hunting
missionary N>pause
scout W>W
warrior SE
Do you have a saved game, say, from T29 for your test run? I'll try to do a comparison tomorrow. The big thing to keep in mind is how much we delay future items, such as Settler 3 and Settler 4, and whether gaining 1 turn on Settler 2 can make up for said delay.
I'd actually be interested if someone were to make a run to Size 4 before starting on Settler 2, to see how far behind Settler 2 comes out but perhaps how much further ahead we can get on research, assuming that we can get the Fur improved quickly enough.
If we have one City but the AIs have Cities all over the map (think of a One-City-Challenge game), Barbs won't spawn, right? Why not? That's because AIs' Culture also prevents Barbs from spawning.
On the other hand I could easily imagine a scenario where there's a barb spawning area in our backyard with an AI area seperated by mountains e.g. Urals extended to Black Sea, Alps/Carpathians extended to Black Sea. Could hav civs such as Greece, Byzantium, Arabia, Egypt (with Pyramids) Persia, India, Khmer, China and Japan, we could still have Spain the other side of the Pyrenees.
I agree that we need more testing. Test games are likely to vary depending on where we settle the next few cities. There's a spot to NE (Calais), spot to SE (Marsailles), a spot to SW (Bordeaux) and a couple of spots we could put helper cities. Settlement (and research priorities)also depends on more strategic considerations eg built Glight or rex or beeline HbR if we have horses or beeline construction if we don't have horses.
Maybe for comparision we'd decide on a tech path such as fishing, mining, BW, pottery, writing and alphabet and go for a straightforward rex.
I shall carry on with T29 settler scenario.
I'll wait overnight for further input re plan for T4/5. If no modifications/objections raised I'll play both turns tomorrow.
edit: save added for start of T29 (units not moved).
I'm going to put out numbers for growth to Size 3, but the timing of completing the Worker actions will be the same regardless of at which City Size we would be starting on our Settler 2.
The tech path will be Hunting -> Animal Husbandry -> Writing to avoid getting Flasks from piggyback research. The real game may vary by a Flask or two depending upon how many Flasks we end up gaining (or not gaining) from overflow from Hunting, but all of the test runs have us learning Hunting before the Worker gets built (thus they are all directly comparable to each other) and have none of the AIs knowing Animal Husbandry or Writing at the time of teching them, so meeting or not meeting additional AIs will not potentially skew the results like could happen if we researched other techs which some AIs already know. I want an easy way to compare Flasks without having to mess around with the World Builder to avoid meeting AIs.
Wow, on Turn 15, 3400 BC, a Great Scientist was born in a foreign land.
For the Worker actions, I see three main approaches:
i. Wheat first
Worker actions:
T12 1 SW G Riv (1 SW of Paris): partial Farm and STOP
T13 1 S G Riv Wheat: Farm
T18 1 N G Riv > 1 NE G Riv Deer For
T19 On the G Riv Deer For: Camp
T23 1 NW G Riv (1 N of Paris): partial Farm and STOP
T24 1 NE G Cow: Pasture
Events:
On Turn 17, 3320 BC our G Riv Wheat has been Farmed
On Turn 19, 3240 BC Size 2
On Turn 22, 3120 BC our G Riv Deer Farm has been Camped
On Turn 22, 3120 BC Size 3: Built Warrior 2 -> Settler 2
On Turn 27, 2920 BC our G Cow has been Pastured
Micro points:
On Turn 15, 3400 BC We switch from working the Deer to the Wheat
Turn 29, 2840 BC STATS:
Food: 24 (Growth to Size 3) + 2 = 26 F
Hammers: 60 + 15 + 91 (Settler in 1 turn) = 166 H
Flasks: 167 Flasks in Writing
Crude sum of those numbers = 26 + 166 + 167 = 359
ii. Deer -> Cow
Worker actions:
T12 1 E G Riv Deer For
T13 On G Riv Deer For: Camp
T17 1 NW G Riv (1 N of Paris): partial Farm and STOP
T18 1 NE G Cow: Pasture
T22 Spend a turn moving, say, 1 SW G Riv (1 N of Paris) > 1 S Paris
T23 1 SW G Riv (1 SW of Paris): partial Farm and STOP
T24 1 S G Riv Wheat: Farm
Events:
On Turn 16, 3360 BC our G Riv Deer Farm has been Camped
On Turn 18, 3280 BC Size 2
On Turn 21, 3160 BC our G Cow has been Pastured
On Turn 22, 3120 BC Size 3: Built Warrior 2 -> Settler 2
On Turn 28, 2880 BC our G Riv Wheat has been Farmed
Micro points:
On Turn 12, 3520 BC We switch from working the Deer to the Wheat
On Turn 16, 3360 BC We switch from working the Wheet to the Camped Deer (don't forget!!!)
Turn 29, 2840 BC STATS:
Food: 24 (Growth to Size 3) + 1 = 25 F
Hammers: 60 + 15 + 90 (Settler in 1 turn) = 165 H
Flasks: 162 Flasks in Writing
Crude sum of those numbers = 25 + 165 + 162 = 352
iii. Deer -> Wheat
T12 1 E G Riv Deer For
T13 On G Riv Deer For: Camp
T17 1 SW G Riv (1 S of Paris): partial Farm and STOP
T18 1 S G Riv Wheat: Farm
T23 Spend a turn moving, say, 1 N G Riv (1 S of Paris) > 1 NE G Riv Deer For
T24 1 NW G Riv (1 N of Paris): partial Farm and STOP
T25 1 NE G Cow: Pasture
Events:
On Turn 16, 3360 BC our G Riv Deer Farm has been Camped
On Turn 18, 3280 BC Size 2
On Turn 22, 3120 BC our G Riv Wheat has been Farmed
On Turn 22, 3120 BC Size 3: Built Warrior 2 -> Settler 2
On Turn 28, 2880 BC our G Cow has been Pastured
Micro points:
On Turn 12, 3520 BC We switch from working the Deer to the Wheat
On Turn 16, 3360 BC We switch from working the Wheet to the Camped Deer (don't forget!!!)
Turn 29, 2840 BC STATS:
Food: 24 (Growth to Size 3) + 0 = 24 F
Hammers: 60 + 15 + 88 (Settler in 1 turn) = 163 H
Flasks: 169 Flasks in Writing
Crude sum of those numbers = 24 + 163 + 169 = 356
Re-running pigswill's Size 2 approach, but with some minor alterations (Work the Wheat until the Deer gets Camped--this decision wasn't a decision so much as what I was doing in the above test runs--the net effect would just be swapping a few Hammers for a few Flasks; don't complete Warrior 2 before Settler 2 and instead start on Settler 2 as soon as we hit Size 2--doing so gets us Settler 2 one turn faster, which is the whole point of building a Settler sooner, isn't it?) we get:
Turn 28, 2880 BC Settler 2
TURN 29, 2840 BC STATS Adjusted, which fully account for settling City 2 two turns earlier and account for missing out on working the improved Resource for 2 turns while we grow to Size 3:
Food: 9 F
Hammers: 171 H
Flasks: 160 Flasks in Writing
Crude sum of those numbers = 9 + 171 + 160 = 340
Spoiler:
On paper, on TURN 29, 2840 BC, we have:
Food: 9 F (Size 3 in 2 turns)
Hammers: 60 + 100 + 11 (Warrior in 2 turns) = 171 H
Flasks: 156 Flasks in Writing
Relative to other runs, we miss out on an additional 2 turns of working the G Cow Pasture as we grow to Size 3, so we have to subtract out the Food and Hammers:
4 F + 2 H - 2 F = 2 F + 2 H
-2 turns * ( 2 F + 2 H ) = -4 F -4 H
We also have to add in the value from settling City 2 two turns sooner.
The fastest Trade Route that we can set up comes from settling 1 N of the western G Cow, then building a Road on the G Riv Fur For, but we won't get our Trade Routes set up until the turn after our Road has been completed, so we don't get 2 turns of Trade Route income. If we did go for Writing, we could Open Borders with an AI on the turn of completing that Road, causing the Trade Route calculation to occur on the turn that we complete the Road (1 turn sooner), earning us 2 Flasks. Since we JUST learned Writing in this test run, I'll give us those 2 Flasks.
Working the G Riv Fur For gives us:
City Centre = 2 F + 1 H + 1 C
G Riv Fur For = 2 F + 1 H + 1 C
Size 1 Citizen consumes = - 2 F
Maintenance = -1 Gold; let's just call Gold = Flasks for the sake of simplicity here
Total = 2 F + 2 H + 1 Flask
2 turns * ( 2 F + 2 H + 1 Flask ) = 4 F + 4 H + 2 Flasks; + 2 Flasks from Opening Borders
9 F + - 4 F + 4 F = 9 F
171 H - 4 H + 4 H = 171 H
156 Flasks + 2 Flasks + 2 Flasks = 160 Flasks
Now, those crude sums shouldn't normally be the final deciding factor, as getting less of one type but more of a more important type, even if getting less overall, can be of benefit. But, for the first three runs, we get Warrior 2 and Settler 2 at the same time as each other, and we're not in a race to complete our next tech, while 2 extra Food won't get us to Size 4 one turn sooner, thus we don't really have a major benefit from any of those numbers being higher. Thus, in this case, I would tend to lean toward picking the higher crude sum.
If we're going to settle to the west, we end up with equal Worker turns. If we're going to settle to the north-east, then the test run with the highest crude sum effectively gets +1 Worker action in terms of building our Road to City 2 (that Worker action is lost in moving to the G Riv Fur For in the case of settling to the west).
I'm not enthusiastic about settling City 2 to the south-east, as it would take a while to set up that City and I think that we'd fall too far behind by settling there, with the only exception being if we were to settle on the south-east Fur and work the Wheat, but then we'd mess up the Fur square--I'm not sure how people feel about settling on the Fur, so I'll assume that we'll be settling either to the west (a slower start as we can't share a Food Resource, but gets us an extra Cow to work early on) or to the north-east (a faster start for the City as it can borrow the capital's Cow in order to get a faster Work Boat, but it also costs us 1 Gold per Turn extra in Maintenance initially).
In the test game, if the square to the NW + N of the north-east Fish is a land square, then Churchill's Cultural Borders will steal that Fish on about Turn 36, 2560 BC. But, if that square is a water square, then his Cultural Borders won't steal that Fish.
EDIT:
Based on that, I think that we'll want to move:
T4 Warrior 1 NE G Riv (1 SE of the north-east Fish)
Doing so should let us see the relevant square under the fog; fog-gazing would easily be able to tell us if that square (the square NW + N of the Fish) is a land square or a water square.
The next set of testing was playing with going: Grow to Size 3 -> Worker 2 -> Settler 2
Doing so seems promising as we can save 1 turn on settling to the west and 2 turns on settling to the north-east by pre-Roading to City 2's location, helping to make back the delay in getting the Settler out. Doing so also gets us our first pair of Trade Routes up as soon as City 2 is settled. For settling to the west, it means being able to work a Pastured G Cow 2 turns after the City is settled, instead of 4 or more turns after that time, allowing the City to progress faster. For settling to the north-east, it means getting our Fur up sooner, giving Paris a 3rd square to work once City 2 steals Paris' Cow for the short term.
I tried Worker 2 at Size 2 and that approach underperformed, so I've abandoned that line. Growing to Size 3 before Settler 2/Worker 2 is stronger than starting on Settler 2/Worker 2 at Size 2.
I haven't tried growing to Size 4, but I don't think that doing so will help, as we're behind on Worker actions and won't have a 4th improved square to work for a while. Even if we could steal a Worker, getting it back safely home in time to improve a relevant Resource is not that likely.
So, I think that we're locked in until Turn 17: Hunting -> Animal Husbandry; partial G Riv Farm, Farm the Wheat, move to the Deer and Camp it; on Turn 17, we'll need to decide what tech path to go for next (Writing -> Alphabet; Fishing -> Mining -> Bronze Working -> Pottery -> Writing -> Alphabet; something else?)
It might also be better to put the partial Farm 1 SW of Paris instead of 1 S of Paris, so that a western City could potentially make use of that G Riv Farm (once the Farm gets completed).
When it comes to Cottaging, the ideal approach is to grow large enough to be able to work all of your Cottages (or at least as large as your Happiness cap will allow, but try to find ways to grow your Happiness cap) and then switch to working Cottages; with so many G Riv squares, it can help to have some of them Farmed in the short and medium term.
Getting settler before another warrior could mean using starting warrior to spawn-bust site#2 (unless we settle west) instead of exploring.
Location of city 2 will depend very much on whether we want to pursue Glight in which case we need early production. Potential downside of any early wonder is Pyramids gives an AI a GE T50, which could be used for Glight, Gwall (probably built already) or ToA.
Spawn-busting with Warrior 1 is an option. That said, several people on the team indicated that they wanted to go exploring with Warrior 1, hoping for the chance of an opportune Worker-stealing possibility. It's quite feasible that BSPollux designed the big fat crosses of all nearby AIs to prevent Worker stealing, but it's also possible that we will have Worker-stealing opportunities, especially for an AI's second City when that AI Roads to its second City, if not in that AI's big fat cross.
Agreed. We only have 2 Forests to Chop and a G Cow for Hammers in the west, so we'd have to plan our whipping actions well if we settled to the west.
Settling to the north-east would give us 2 Forests plus multiple GH Mines.
Thanks for confirming that England won't steal the north-east Fish with their Culture (unless England is on our landmass, in which case all bets are off).
That's a great point to keep in mind. Of course, an AI would have to have built a Lighthouse in the City with The Pyramids and if that City isn't coastal, it will probably be another Wonder that gets built in that City. I don't think that I've ever seen an AI send a Great Engineer to another City for the purposes of rushing a Wonder (for settling a Great Engineer, I've seen an AI send a Great Engineer to another City, at least when I World-Built-in said Great Engineer).
Then again, an AI with both The Pyramids and The Great Lighthouse would have just painted a very large bullseye on its forehead.
That approach definitely needs some refined testing to see exactly what the benefits and tradeoffs are, but that approach could help to solve part of our short-term dilemma of getting enough improved squares for our citizens to work while also wanting to build Roads between our Cities.
Interesting. Unless BSPollux intervened, that AI shouldn't have a Worker yet, but regardless of whether that AI started with a Worker or not, we're not sure whether there will be a chance to steal a Worker. If there will be a chance, we might not find it in time.
On the plus side, that AI's Culture will help immeasurably in Culture-busting the area to the east of us, so we probably don't need to use Warrior 1 for spawn-busting purposes.
Having a second worker also means improving tiles in city#2 while finishing improvements in Paris.
I reckon that we should seriously consider north east for city#2 if only to stop Germany pinching the spot (they'd have a nice sheep/fish site close to their borders).
With mountains to the south and coast to the north moving warrior 1S should spawnbust the gap.
With 1 Hammer from the City Centre and 1 Hammer from the Deer, there are only enough Hammers for 1 Warrior (Warrior 2). At best, we can put 3 Hammers toward another one, but I was taking 3 Commerce instead of putting 3 Hammers into a Barracks or into a Warrior where they might decay into nothingness.
We're just going to have to make the best use that we can out of the units that we have available to us.
I'm reverting back to settler asap for Calais (NE site). First reason is that it improves possibility of beating Germany to the site, second reason is that this is beginning to look like a Glight map (even with risk of T50 AI GE (that's a lot of abbreviations for any casual lurker)) and the sooner we settle the sooner Calais starts growing and the sooner it can work 4 GH hills+fish.
Having said that I'm mindful that Turbo Ants have gone power-crazy already which strongly suggests availability of a strategic resource so early rush looks like an alternative to Glight.
It is likely that we will soon meet another AI. When we do, if it is Germany, Greece, or someone south of us (Portugal/Spain), are we going to switch EPs to that AI?
What about learning Mysticism after AH so we have a quick way to get culture into cities after we use the missionary?
Mysticism would be nice but won't be needed until city#3.
It occurs to me that if we're going to use the missionary for free culture it might be better not to use her for spawn-busting at all. Its better to have an animal spawn in the north west to act as a free spawn-buster to stop barbs appearing after the missionary is moved.
It occurs to me that if we're going to use the missionary for free culture it might be better not to use her for spawn-busting at all. Its better to have an animal spawn in the north west to act as a free spawn-buster to stop barbs appearing after the missionary is moved.
For Pericles, yes, but no for Alex, Bismarck, or Frederick:
Leader = iTechTradeKnownPercent, iNoTechTradeThreshold
Alex = 30, 5
Bismarck = 70, 5
Churchill = 30, 10
Frederick = 30, 10
Pericles = 10, 15
When trying to trade a tech with our target AI, out of the AIs that our target AI has met, the lower the iTechTradeKnownPercent value, the less of those AIs that our target has met must also know the desired tech before our target AI will be willing to trade that tech to us.
The higher the iNoTechTradeThreshold value, the more techs that our target AI will trade to us before reaching their WFYABTA counter limit.
Pericles would make for a great long-term tech-trading partner, especially if we can delay meeting him until after learning Alphabet.
In the short-term, if Churchill is on an island, he might only be willing to trade zero-monopoly-valued techs to us, until he sends out an exploring Work Boat or another AI sends out an exploring Work Boat to meet him, which may require us Opening Borders to happen, depending upon how isolated a potential English island is by the French Culture. There's also a good chance that the Scandinavia connects to England, and we're still not completely certain that England is on an island.
Bismarck is a horrible tech-trading partner UNLESS you get him up to Friendly status, in which case he is a great tech-trading partner, as he won't trade techs away to any other AI toward he isn't Friendly except when nearly every AI already knows said tech or except when that tech is a zero-monopoly-valued tech.
But, are we really willing to gift several Cities to an AI in our backyard just to stay Friendly toward him? Likely not. We could theoretically Liberate and recapture some Cities repeatedly, but if we One-City-Challenge an AI, that AI won't be a great tech-trading partner.
Zero-monopoly-valued techs include:
Fishing, Animal Husbandry, Alphabet, Monotheism, Monarchy, and Liberalism; I can't think of any others.
I'd highly recommend against it. If you want Monuments everywhere, the tech to grab early on is Sailing for a Galley, on which we could shuttle troops over to Churchill before declaring war and marching those troops 3 or 4 squares across of his land to his capital. Or, if he is on our landmass, we really don't need Mysticism.
Sailing is also a diversionary tech, but at least we have cheap Lighthouses. I'd still rather get Sailing in trade, though.
Without The Oracle being buildable, I see little value in learning the Religious techs until we're ready for Monotheism (Organized Religion) or Code of Laws (cheap Courthouses).
I'd suggest being content that we already start with +1 Happiness, which means being able to grow Paris to Size 5 without needing a City Defender.
Depending upon where we settle, we won't need a Monument until City 4. A City to the west can be settled adjacent to both the Cow and the Fish, and we won't have Masonry early on (meaning that we can't improve the Stone, and it is not on a Hills square, thus we can't Mine it, either), so we can wait to get a Cultural Border expansion there. A City to the north-east would likely demand our Missionary in order to obtain the Fish, but getting the Missionary there will be tricky as we'll also want Warrior 2 up there to defend against any existing Barb units, meaning that we'd leave the west unspawn-busted. Perhaps we'd move the Scout to the west and leave the south unspawn-busted when it is time to settle in the north-east.
Barb Animals supposedly disappear from the map from how most people on the forums describe things. But, there was definitely one Vanilla GOTM game where I was alone on an island, lost my Warrior to a Barb Animal when I was defending on a GH For, giving the Barb Animal a large amount of XP. Barb Animals cannot take Promotions. The island was small (about 20 squares in size) and I'd explored it entirely, although theoretically I could have passed a map-maker-placed Barb Warrior in the fog while it wandered past me. Later, I found a Combat II Barb Warrior, which fit with a Barb Animal gaining 5 XP and morphing into a Barb Warrior.
The AIs in that game were set to Settler Difficulty Level, though, not their normal Noble Difficulty Level, so I don't know if that oddity played a factor.
Maybe Barb Animals which earn XP or earn enough XP for a Promotion can morph?
I don't really have the clearest of answers on that point.
What's the plan for playing forward? Do we have anyone who disagrees with:
1. Don't change the citizen assignments in Paris, so that we keep working the Deer (i.e. there's nothing to do inside of Paris) until our Worker gets built
2. Selecting Hunting on Turn 5, 3800 BC
3. Selecting Animal Husbandry on Turn 6, 3760 BC
4. Leaving our Missionary and Scout where they are (it is preferred if we use the Spacebar to Skip their Turns instead of using Sentry or Fortify, so that the Active Player will be forced to visually scan the surrounding area for changes, such as Churchill sending out a Work Boat explorer, a Barb Unit appearing on a part of the map that is visible to us), or Churchill's Scout appearing (making us start to doubt the whole island theory)
5. Having Warrior 1 look for a chance to steal a Worker from that light-grey AI (Germany?) and if one can't be found, looking to steal a Worker from the next-closest AI
If we're good with that approach, then the focus of the turns up until Turn 12, 3520 BC (when the Worker will get built) can be on seeing if we can steal an AI Worker while also being conscious of where our Warrior 1 walks, to avoid being ambushed by Barb units.
@pigswill: You're still up for continuing to be the Active Player, right?
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EDIT: 
)) and the sooner we settle the sooner Calais starts growing and the sooner it can work 4 GH hills+fish. 
.
