To get another missionary what about Jackpot 1-pop whips a lighthouse overflow into a missionary 1-pop whips the missionary? Send missionary to Lyons (if not needed in Ruby Bay).
SGOTM 23 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
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Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
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Suggested Partial-turn PPP
Okay, so let's say that we take a Peace Treaty with Stalin, to avoid him being able to redeclare war on us, allowing us to score his World Map, and allowing us to empty our Russian holdings of troops without fear of being surprise counter-attacked
We let him stay at war with Mehmed so that we can get Open Borders with Stalin once we declare war on Mehmed.
It looks like Kublai would make peace with Stalin for Philosophy, so we can also make that trade, to prevent Kublai from spamming Units.
Then, with a Peace Treaty with Stalin, we can send just about everyone in Russia southward and have our Galleys come up to collect those Units. The Great General can just hang out on land for now.
Mounted troops that arrive quickly on our Galleys can unload near Edirne while we're still at peace with Mehmed, so that we can have a secondary stack of Units going toward Edirne from the Barb Culture.
Our Worker 16 moves 1 SE G For (1 E of St. Pete's) and builds a Road there, to speed up the movement of our troops from the north.
I'd leave one Unit to defend St. Pete's--Axe 13 on Galley 1 is good.
Axe 9 (No Promotions and in Transylvania) can defend Rostov in case Frederick backstabs us after our Peace Treaty with Frederick wears off after 9 turns' time.
For our northern Galleys, Axe 3 and Axe 9 (in Transylvania) can board a Galley (say, Galley 3 at 2 N of St. Pete's) and unload in St. Pete's, possibly saving themselves a turn of movement. Other Units, such as our Chariots at 2 E of Transylvania, can move to the G For at 1 E of St. Pete's, as Worker 16 (1 NE + 1 E of St. Pete's) will also move to that square and then build a Road there before our Chariots move off of that square.
The other Galley at 2 N of St. Pete's (probably Galley 4) can move to St. Pete's Fish at 2 W of St. Pete, to await the Hamburg Cat next turn
Galley 5 can move 1 SW to 1 NE + 1 E of Hamburg to await the Hamburg Cat next turn
Galley 1 (2 W of St. Pete's) can sail into St. Pete's and unload the Axeman, to act as a Military Police Unit for St. Pete's.
All of the other Military Units (besides Warrior 1, who still spawn-busts Scandinavia--including spawn-busting the northern coast for Barb Galleys at his current location) will move south toward those Galleys.
Get mounted troops transferred over first, then load up the Galleys with everyone else, then we declare war on Mehmed.
Ideally, we'd declare war on Mehmed when our troops that are on Galleys are on Galleys at 4 N of Edirne, where they are outside of Mehmed's Cultural Borders and when those Units have full movement points, so that they can unload by Edirne on the turn that we declare war, while our mounted troops can march on Edirne from the Barb Culture, then everyone attacks Edirne on the turn after we declare war.
We may not need to unload everyone, and we then plan to go after Istanbul very quickly thereafter.
We won't capture Katty and will leave Churchill alive.
There's a lot of micro that needs to be done; I'm not sure that I'll be able to write it all down--we'll have to study each City on each turn of play and really think about whether we're doing the right things.
Things for sure:
T117
Paris whips Forge
XO Cognac steals back its Horse
Orleans builds Missionary
York steals London's Stone and works Horse and Stone
London fires its 2 Scientists and works Fish, Fur, and 3 Coast squares
London could build its Missionary; it really doesn't matter, since we can't build our University until next turn
Hamburg 2-pop-whips its Catapult
Ruby Bay builds a Library
Ruby Bay switches Coast -> G For
Ruby Bay switches Farm -> GH For
Athens builds Library
Athens switches Clam -> PH Mine
St. Pete's 2-pop-whips the Granary
St. Pete's steals and works the Fish
St. Pete's works: 3 Fish, Wheat, and the Fur
Jackpot 1-pop-whips its Lighthouse (to overflow into a Missionary, which we can also 1-pop-whip)
Aberdeen can stick with working the Sheep and the Fur this turn when we earn +2 Hammer from each due to being in the Golden Age, getting us closer to completing that Granary
Workers
Worker 1 Heads to the GH For at 3 S of XO Cognac -> pre-Chops it -> we'll want to Chop it into the University
Worker 2 Roads the Ivory -> moves to the P Riv at 1 NW of Ivory Coast and Farms it
Worker 3 We don't want to finish the GH Mine on which he's standing until it's time to build the University, so he can move to the Tun for at 1 W of Argent to pre-Chop it for Argent's University
Worker 4 pre-Chop the G For at 1 NE + 1 E of Ruby Bay
Worker 5 Move to London's Fur (we can Road it and pre-Chop it)
Worker 6 move to Aberdeen's Fur and pre-Chop it
Worker 7 Build a road on the GH For on the way to the Resort
Worker 8 Already moved, but as a precaution, we could probably have him move to the GH that Paris and Orleans share and Mine it, in case we end up needing the Hammers
Worker 9 Build a Cottage and STOP
Worker 13 (on the same square as Worker 9) Build a Cottage and STOP
Worker 16 (1 NE + 1 E of St. Pete's) move 1 SW to the pRoad sign (1E of St. Pete's) where we'll complete the Road, and then we'll move 1 SE to the GH For to Chop it into St. Pete's University
Worker 11 (4 S of St. Pete's) We'll want to Chop the G Riv For at 1 SW + 1 S of St. Pete's on T122, meaning arriving on that square on T119, so for 2 turns, we can pre-Chop the G For Road at 1 SE of St. Pete's
Worker 10 (1 NW of Yar) will complete its Road next turn
Worker 15 (1 W of Moscow) will complete its Road next turn
Worker 12 (2 E of Paris) move 1 S G Riv Cot (1 W of the Winery) and Road--he can then help with pre-Chopping around Paris and one of our near-Paris Workers might even Road out Cow for Resource-trading purposes
The Unnamed Worker at 1 NE of Transylvania (no movement points this turn) could probably start building our Fort there, so that we'd have the option of using a navy in the north
Our Chariots near Mehmed can get into position in the Barb Culture
Maybe Chariot 9 goes 1 SE PH Jungle and then heads closer to Edirne just to get in an extra bit of exploration before just getting into position and waiting for the other troops to arrive
All of our Galleys head to pick up troops and drop them off within Mehmed's Cultural Borders while we're still at Peace with Mehmed, so ignore the "Great General Points here" sign.
The Great General stays on land--we may have to watch out for Mehmed's Horse Archer near Istanbul who may have actually listened to us and is belatedly heading toward Stalin, and it could give us trouble later when it goes for one of our Cities.
Spies in Paris move to Jackpot.
The Great Merchant and Great Scientist (in Paris) remain where they are, Fortified. We won't use them until after we build MoM.
Galley 2 (1 NW of Orleans) waits for the Orleans-built Christian Missionary.
If you can get the game set up that way for T117, while leaving 1 Unit unmoved or Unfortified somewhere (say, Warrior 1 in Scandinavia if everyone else has moved), then upload it, we can make sure that everything looks good for T117 before advancing the turn.
I know that it's a lot to ask to only play that much, but it will be a lot easier to visualize our Universities plan this way and we can make sure that everything is set up for success.
It will also give us time to think about and talk about our Diplo Policy, since it's about to get complicated.
Easy items: No techs to Mehmed or Hatty
Harder items: Which of the other techs that an AI asks for should we give out and which should we refuse to give out?
Also, we need to look at which Resource trades we should be making, possibly even cancelling some to be able to make different ones, to remove the chance for Darius to trade away Marble on the turn that he gets possession of it. Without that Marble coming in trade from Darius, we'd have to declare war on Darius, which would delay when we could get The Pyramids from Hatty for Representation, not to mention delaying when we could get access to Marble by a few turns until Edirne comes out of City Revolt.
There might also be some Unit movements that are unclear.
If you can get us to the end of the turn without advancing the turn, then on Thursday evening I can push us through another few turns; far enough for the University-building plan to become a lot more obvious to see so that I can hand the game off again, after which point the micro will still be challenging in hot spots (in Paris, to get Oxford in 1 turn, for example) but will overall be a lot less challenging in most spots, allowing us to focus on key goals: Get Marble, Own Istanbul and eliminate Mehmed, somewhere in there get 3-movement-point Galleys, and send a stack of 10 Units toward Thebes.
Before we capture Thebes, we'd gift Jackpot to Hatty, having 4 chances to steal Nationalism, possibly gifting her a Scout or two that we might be able to build out of Jackpot in the next few turns.
I don't think that we'll put a lot of pressure on ourselves during the Golden Age to try to get a 4-Great-Person Golden Age; I think that we'll be happy enough with a 3-Great-Person Golden Age, as we'll get 12 turns from our 2-Great-Person Golden Age, 12 to 13 turns from The Taj Mahal if all goes smoothly there, then another 12 turns from the 3-Great-Person Golden Age, which should put us pretty close to learning Railroad.
So, once we've got our University plan wired up, and Oxford built, most of the challenging micro will be behind us, although we'll still need to remember details on future turns, such as remembering to actually Draft 3 Musketeers per turn once we're running Nationhood as a Civic.
Okay, so let's say that we take a Peace Treaty with Stalin, to avoid him being able to redeclare war on us, allowing us to score his World Map, and allowing us to empty our Russian holdings of troops without fear of being surprise counter-attacked
We let him stay at war with Mehmed so that we can get Open Borders with Stalin once we declare war on Mehmed.
It looks like Kublai would make peace with Stalin for Philosophy, so we can also make that trade, to prevent Kublai from spamming Units.
Then, with a Peace Treaty with Stalin, we can send just about everyone in Russia southward and have our Galleys come up to collect those Units. The Great General can just hang out on land for now.
Mounted troops that arrive quickly on our Galleys can unload near Edirne while we're still at peace with Mehmed, so that we can have a secondary stack of Units going toward Edirne from the Barb Culture.
Our Worker 16 moves 1 SE G For (1 E of St. Pete's) and builds a Road there, to speed up the movement of our troops from the north.
I'd leave one Unit to defend St. Pete's--Axe 13 on Galley 1 is good.
Axe 9 (No Promotions and in Transylvania) can defend Rostov in case Frederick backstabs us after our Peace Treaty with Frederick wears off after 9 turns' time.
For our northern Galleys, Axe 3 and Axe 9 (in Transylvania) can board a Galley (say, Galley 3 at 2 N of St. Pete's) and unload in St. Pete's, possibly saving themselves a turn of movement. Other Units, such as our Chariots at 2 E of Transylvania, can move to the G For at 1 E of St. Pete's, as Worker 16 (1 NE + 1 E of St. Pete's) will also move to that square and then build a Road there before our Chariots move off of that square.
The other Galley at 2 N of St. Pete's (probably Galley 4) can move to St. Pete's Fish at 2 W of St. Pete, to await the Hamburg Cat next turn
Galley 5 can move 1 SW to 1 NE + 1 E of Hamburg to await the Hamburg Cat next turn
Galley 1 (2 W of St. Pete's) can sail into St. Pete's and unload the Axeman, to act as a Military Police Unit for St. Pete's.
All of the other Military Units (besides Warrior 1, who still spawn-busts Scandinavia--including spawn-busting the northern coast for Barb Galleys at his current location) will move south toward those Galleys.
Get mounted troops transferred over first, then load up the Galleys with everyone else, then we declare war on Mehmed.
Ideally, we'd declare war on Mehmed when our troops that are on Galleys are on Galleys at 4 N of Edirne, where they are outside of Mehmed's Cultural Borders and when those Units have full movement points, so that they can unload by Edirne on the turn that we declare war, while our mounted troops can march on Edirne from the Barb Culture, then everyone attacks Edirne on the turn after we declare war.
We may not need to unload everyone, and we then plan to go after Istanbul very quickly thereafter.
We won't capture Katty and will leave Churchill alive.
There's a lot of micro that needs to be done; I'm not sure that I'll be able to write it all down--we'll have to study each City on each turn of play and really think about whether we're doing the right things.
Things for sure:
T117
Paris whips Forge
XO Cognac steals back its Horse
Orleans builds Missionary
York steals London's Stone and works Horse and Stone
London fires its 2 Scientists and works Fish, Fur, and 3 Coast squares
London could build its Missionary; it really doesn't matter, since we can't build our University until next turn
Hamburg 2-pop-whips its Catapult
Ruby Bay builds a Library
Ruby Bay switches Coast -> G For
Ruby Bay switches Farm -> GH For
Athens builds Library
Athens switches Clam -> PH Mine
St. Pete's 2-pop-whips the Granary
St. Pete's steals and works the Fish
St. Pete's works: 3 Fish, Wheat, and the Fur
Jackpot 1-pop-whips its Lighthouse (to overflow into a Missionary, which we can also 1-pop-whip)
Aberdeen can stick with working the Sheep and the Fur this turn when we earn +2 Hammer from each due to being in the Golden Age, getting us closer to completing that Granary
Workers
Worker 1 Heads to the GH For at 3 S of XO Cognac -> pre-Chops it -> we'll want to Chop it into the University
Worker 2 Roads the Ivory -> moves to the P Riv at 1 NW of Ivory Coast and Farms it
Worker 3 We don't want to finish the GH Mine on which he's standing until it's time to build the University, so he can move to the Tun for at 1 W of Argent to pre-Chop it for Argent's University
Worker 4 pre-Chop the G For at 1 NE + 1 E of Ruby Bay
Worker 5 Move to London's Fur (we can Road it and pre-Chop it)
Worker 6 move to Aberdeen's Fur and pre-Chop it
Worker 7 Build a road on the GH For on the way to the Resort
Worker 8 Already moved, but as a precaution, we could probably have him move to the GH that Paris and Orleans share and Mine it, in case we end up needing the Hammers
Worker 9 Build a Cottage and STOP
Worker 13 (on the same square as Worker 9) Build a Cottage and STOP
Worker 16 (1 NE + 1 E of St. Pete's) move 1 SW to the pRoad sign (1E of St. Pete's) where we'll complete the Road, and then we'll move 1 SE to the GH For to Chop it into St. Pete's University
Worker 11 (4 S of St. Pete's) We'll want to Chop the G Riv For at 1 SW + 1 S of St. Pete's on T122, meaning arriving on that square on T119, so for 2 turns, we can pre-Chop the G For Road at 1 SE of St. Pete's
Worker 10 (1 NW of Yar) will complete its Road next turn
Worker 15 (1 W of Moscow) will complete its Road next turn
Worker 12 (2 E of Paris) move 1 S G Riv Cot (1 W of the Winery) and Road--he can then help with pre-Chopping around Paris and one of our near-Paris Workers might even Road out Cow for Resource-trading purposes
The Unnamed Worker at 1 NE of Transylvania (no movement points this turn) could probably start building our Fort there, so that we'd have the option of using a navy in the north
Our Chariots near Mehmed can get into position in the Barb Culture
Maybe Chariot 9 goes 1 SE PH Jungle and then heads closer to Edirne just to get in an extra bit of exploration before just getting into position and waiting for the other troops to arrive
All of our Galleys head to pick up troops and drop them off within Mehmed's Cultural Borders while we're still at Peace with Mehmed, so ignore the "Great General Points here" sign.
The Great General stays on land--we may have to watch out for Mehmed's Horse Archer near Istanbul who may have actually listened to us and is belatedly heading toward Stalin, and it could give us trouble later when it goes for one of our Cities.
Spies in Paris move to Jackpot.
The Great Merchant and Great Scientist (in Paris) remain where they are, Fortified. We won't use them until after we build MoM.
Spoiler :
Galley 2 (1 NW of Orleans) waits for the Orleans-built Christian Missionary.
If you can get the game set up that way for T117, while leaving 1 Unit unmoved or Unfortified somewhere (say, Warrior 1 in Scandinavia if everyone else has moved), then upload it, we can make sure that everything looks good for T117 before advancing the turn.
I know that it's a lot to ask to only play that much, but it will be a lot easier to visualize our Universities plan this way and we can make sure that everything is set up for success.
It will also give us time to think about and talk about our Diplo Policy, since it's about to get complicated.
Easy items: No techs to Mehmed or Hatty
Harder items: Which of the other techs that an AI asks for should we give out and which should we refuse to give out?
Also, we need to look at which Resource trades we should be making, possibly even cancelling some to be able to make different ones, to remove the chance for Darius to trade away Marble on the turn that he gets possession of it. Without that Marble coming in trade from Darius, we'd have to declare war on Darius, which would delay when we could get The Pyramids from Hatty for Representation, not to mention delaying when we could get access to Marble by a few turns until Edirne comes out of City Revolt.
There might also be some Unit movements that are unclear.
If you can get us to the end of the turn without advancing the turn, then on Thursday evening I can push us through another few turns; far enough for the University-building plan to become a lot more obvious to see so that I can hand the game off again, after which point the micro will still be challenging in hot spots (in Paris, to get Oxford in 1 turn, for example) but will overall be a lot less challenging in most spots, allowing us to focus on key goals: Get Marble, Own Istanbul and eliminate Mehmed, somewhere in there get 3-movement-point Galleys, and send a stack of 10 Units toward Thebes.
Before we capture Thebes, we'd gift Jackpot to Hatty, having 4 chances to steal Nationalism, possibly gifting her a Scout or two that we might be able to build out of Jackpot in the next few turns.
I don't think that we'll put a lot of pressure on ourselves during the Golden Age to try to get a 4-Great-Person Golden Age; I think that we'll be happy enough with a 3-Great-Person Golden Age, as we'll get 12 turns from our 2-Great-Person Golden Age, 12 to 13 turns from The Taj Mahal if all goes smoothly there, then another 12 turns from the 3-Great-Person Golden Age, which should put us pretty close to learning Railroad.
So, once we've got our University plan wired up, and Oxford built, most of the challenging micro will be behind us, although we'll still need to remember details on future turns, such as remembering to actually Draft 3 Musketeers per turn once we're running Nationhood as a Civic.
Dhoomstriker
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That's a good idea, certainly better than building the stuff that I was suggesting. I have updated the plan accordingly.
Galley 2 could pick up that Missionary on the turn that it gets built if Galley 2 is in the right place.
That Missionary would exist on the map on T120.
Will play to the end of the turn soon.
Executed most of plan for end of turn 117. Have not moved or finished moving a few units, because I have questions, and worker 14 near RBay had no job order. Just forgot to move axe4 in StP, but will do so when resume.
No declaration of war yet, because I would like to move chariot in Yar 1N1NE to find out what units (realize we will get his map for peace) Stalin has in his capital just before Peace treaty. Understand that will delay the chariot boarding a galley and getting into barb territory, but he will be teleported out of Russia and will be able to get onto a galley and sailed south before he's needed anyway, so don't see that affecting speed of attack on Mehmed. (Would still board the HA in Yar this turn and begin his voyage south this turn.
If there is concern with Fred backstabbing us, then should we move axe12 back into Hamburg?
Propose sending galley1 to pick up HA10 next turn and sail him into St. Pete to be promoted (recommendation?) and heal. This would get him into the city one turn earlier to begin healing there.
Note that several units were left with their turns skipped but no red cross on them (that is, they were not clicked on and the healing medicine bottle icon clicked on). I did that clicking but wondering if this not necessary to do in BtS to have units heal?
Save from Central: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG023_AD0050_02.CivBeyondSwordSave
No declaration of war yet, because I would like to move chariot in Yar 1N1NE to find out what units (realize we will get his map for peace) Stalin has in his capital just before Peace treaty. Understand that will delay the chariot boarding a galley and getting into barb territory, but he will be teleported out of Russia and will be able to get onto a galley and sailed south before he's needed anyway, so don't see that affecting speed of attack on Mehmed. (Would still board the HA in Yar this turn and begin his voyage south this turn.
If there is concern with Fred backstabbing us, then should we move axe12 back into Hamburg?
Propose sending galley1 to pick up HA10 next turn and sail him into St. Pete to be promoted (recommendation?) and heal. This would get him into the city one turn earlier to begin healing there.
Note that several units were left with their turns skipped but no red cross on them (that is, they were not clicked on and the healing medicine bottle icon clicked on). I did that clicking but wondering if this not necessary to do in BtS to have units heal?
Save from Central: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG023_AD0050_02.CivBeyondSwordSave
Dhoomstriker
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If it's the Chariot I think that you mean, it should be able to get on a Galley this turn.
I'm not sure what we'd do with the knowledge--if we were to stay at war, we'd kiss a Chariot goodbye to any of an Axeman, a Spearman, or a Swordsman attacking it, so we'd be down that Unit.
Again, seeing what an AI has now doesn't really do much for us when an AI can spam 1 Unit per turn with 2 Combat Promos per Unit, either by whipping or possibly via raw production like Moscow could. "It has 2 City Defenders" could quickly turn into "aww, darn, it has 5 City Defenders now that we've arrived at the gates of the City," with some Units from the field or the City to the north-east having joined any whipped Units.
I don't have game access right now, but Yar would possibly be captured if we remained at war.
He couldn't do so for 10 turns. St. Pete's needs a Military Police Unit. I just suggested having another Unit in Rostov as a precaution--Mehmed has a Horse Archer that might come to that area, for example, and a whipped Catapult won't defend well against and attacking Horse Archer.
Or, we might end up later wanting a second Military Police Unit in St. Pete's and that Rostov Axeman could move up to St. Pete's. Otherwise, with a Peace Treaty with Stalin, we might as well throw everything at Mehmed, then have the strongest 10 survivors go for Hatty's capital.
Why not have him heal later when he's stacked together with a Woodsman III Unit, possibly even healing only after we've attacked Mehmed? If it's the HA I think that you mean, it will heal half of its Health when it promotes.
The Heal button is not necessary. I Skipped turns because it might be better to push those Units forward rather than to heal them completely now, especially if they're at, say, 5.5/6 Health or something and could heal to full health even in neutral territory in a stack with a Woodsman III Unit.
The sooner that we ship some Units over, the sooner that other Units can board the remaining limited number of Galley spaces.
Yes, but there are going to be empty galleys waiting at anchor for a turn.
Dhoomstriker
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Okay, just to clarify here:
If we want to know what Stalin is building in his Cities, we will have to spend more EPs on him.
In order to see what Units he has in his Cities and in the squares immediately adjacent to his Cities, we need enough EPs to reach the "City Visibility" threshold.
In order to see what items of production his Cities are producing, we need enough EPs to reach the "Investigate City" threshold.
City Visibility is about 60% of the cost of Investigate City. Put another way, you need just under double the number of EPs to see what an AI is producing than you need to see what the AI already has.
We currently have enough EPs on Stalin to see what he already has in his Cities, as long as we have revealed those Cities on the map. Right now, we have only revealed Orenburg and we haven't revealed his other two Cities, so no matter how many EPs we were to spend on Stalin, we would not get to see either what he has in his other Cities (City Visibility) nor would we get to see what he is producing in his other Cities (Investigate City). To get this info, we can either explore his territory or we can get his World Map--getting his World Map gets us the same info without us having to devote our Chariot's movement points to the task.
So, if the goal is to see what Stalin is producing in his Cities around the time our next war with Stalin, then we can take his World Map now to reveal his Cities and later, just before we declare war on him, we can spend more EPs on him.
On the subject of EPs, which you brought up, we need to figure out how many EPs to earn against Hatty in order to get Nationalism and Music.
I'll take the blame there for not planning the Unit logistics better. I took too many Units up toward Vlad, as I wanted to be sure that we'd raze it, but we ended up with a stack of too many Chariots in the north.
I suggest that you open up a test game, World Build yourself some Barb Units to attack and some Units of yours to attack them with. Get your Units wounded. Send one Unit into a City without any healers in it. Send another wounded Unit to a City with a Medic I Unit in it. Send yet another wounded Unit to a City with a Woodsman III Unit in it. There will be a different rate of healing in each of those Cities.
Combat II sounds good to me, but we can't assign it until next turn.
Try another test game experiment.
Build two Units who can Fortify, say, 2 Axemen. Press the Fortify button for one Axeman. Press the Skip Turn (actually, press the Spacebar as the shortcut key for Skip turn) for the other Axeman. Do so for at least 2 turns and you'll see that they both have a Fortification Bonus of 5%.
If a Unit doesn't move, it Fortifies. The Fortify button is just a "I don't want to be asked what to do with this Unit every turn" type of button, but that button DOES NOT actually provide any Fortification whatsoever. It is the act of not moving a Unit that causes a Unit with defensive bonus capabilities from gaining a Fortification bonus of 5% per turn, starting from the second turn of not moving from a square, up to a maximum of a 25% Fortification bonus from not having moved from a square for 6 turns.
The same is true with healing. If a Unit doesn't move, it heals. Simple.
That Healing icon is only a convenience method of:
i. Telling you how many turns it will take for your Unit to heal based on the current situation--whether the Unit has a Medic or a Woodsman III Unit on the same square will change the situation
ii. Sleeping your Unit until it has fully healed. If it says "Heals in 2 turns" when you press that button and there's a Medic in the City, but then the Medic leaves the City, the Unit is likely to take more than 2 turns to heal, regardless of the status of what the button said when you pressed the button
The button DOES NOT HEAL. Pressing or not pressing the button has zero effect on the amount of healing that happens. Not moving a Unit on a turn is what heals.
It's my fault for not being clear, but in future, if we're going to spend turns healing our Units, we should make every effort to have a Woodsman III Unit on the same square as where our Units are located. We have more than one Woodsman III Axeman (I think that we have two of them), so it shouldn't be too hard to meet this goal in future.
This point will also be true when our Units sail from Mehmed's Cities to Hatty's empire--if we have a Woodsman III Unit in the same stack of Galleys as our other Units aboard Galleys, then on any turn where the Units aren't loading or unloading onto Galleys, the wounded Units can heal faster if a Woodsman III Unit is on any Galley on the same square.
It can make sense for us to do some healing at sea when the voyage is long. The voyage between Mehmed and Hatty is long. The voyage across of the water from southern Russia to Mehmed's Cities is too short for our Units to really be healing on our Galleys.
Another option might be to have our Units move across of the water and simply heal wherever they are standing, with them possibly being teleported to neutral territory when we declare war on Mehmed. But, it looks like there is only 1 square of neutral territory, at 2 SW + 1 S of Edirne, so there would have to be no enemy Units on that square (no Barbs and no Units of Mehmed's) when we declared war, and we'd only teleport to there from certain locations. From initial glance, if we unloaded near Edirne, we could get teleported to that square, but landing near Istanbul would probably teleport us to the north of Istanbul, back into our own territory, which we wouldn't want to have happen, as then our Galley trips would have been wasted for those Units who got teleported to the north.
Communication is not going well here. I just want to move the chariot to reveal the Russian capital to see what units are in there now, providing a base line for what he might have later. Turns out, the revelation apparently would also serve the purpose of giving us the option of spending points to reveal what's going on in the city in the future.
Did not know that about healing and fortifying. Wish I had, would have been saving time. Does a unit heal and fortify at the same time? If not, is there a default order?
Did not know that about healing and fortifying. Wish I had, would have been saving time. Does a unit heal and fortify at the same time? If not, is there a default order?
Dhoomstriker
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Our Cities look to be set up quite well for this turn, so great job there, but it's the next few turns where it will be the trickiest. As I said, I can push through playing these next few turns (the rest of T117 and a few more turns) and then hand the game off in a state that will hopefully be easier to manage.
However, not having taken Peace yet may provide an opportunity to teleport some of the Horse Archers in Moscow forward to Yar this turn.
If we keep our wounded mounted Units on the move, perhaps they can heal on Mehmed's side of the water, with us Galley-chaining a healer (a Woodsman III Unit) over to Mehmed's side of the water.
Now that we may be moving wounded Units out of Moscow, maybe it will instead make sense to put those wounded Units on the nearby boats instead of the Chariot, but then we could still push the Chariot forward so that it could board a boat next turn that other Units would be unable to reach, i.e. a boat inside of Istanbul, and we could have our Great General go with our Chariot, if for no other reason than to be prepared to have our Great General board the farthest-away Galley, freeing up a future Galley slot for the Galleys that can make 2 or 3 trips back and forth while they wait for the last Galley to arrive. Only after all 5 of the Galleys are on the same square as each other, along with no other Units except for the Great General, can we use the Great General, so it may make sense to send the Great General ahead to board the last Galley, by way of boarding Galley 8 (currently inside of Istanbul) alongside of Chariot 13 next turn. HA 12 could similarly board Galley 9 (currently inside of Istanbul) next turn, by being able to move father ahead this turn.
- Heal
- Gain a Fortification bonus if that Unit can get one, starting from the second turn of not moving (most mounted Units cannot get one, but Darius' Immortals, which replace Chariots, are one exception to this rule, as Immortals CAN get Defensive Bonuses and thus they can also get a Fortification bonus)
These actions happen at the same time as each other. You can literally press the Skip Turn button for every Unit that you want to both Heal and Fortify and the Unit will do both of those things; it will just mean more pressing of the Spacebar key for you, but there is no difference as far as the game is concerned.
If weren't under deadline pressure, I'd be happy to post a lot of screenshots in the Turnset Reports, set up some test games to demonstrate the concepts, and create more screenshots with text on them like I did of the initial assault on Russia, to make the plans clearer. But, we lack that time. So, to all of the Lurkers and to our fellow teammates, sorry, but you're just going to have to keep suffering with less details that we'd love to provide.
I will stress again that I dislike this style of rushed playing and I much prefer to be in a position where I have time to teach and share my knowledge of this game with good images. With our current deadline, I don't see a way to make that happen.
What I'm saying is that if we're both agreed that we're going to take a Peace Treaty with Stalin and will take his World Map in the Peace Treaty, then moving the Chariot to reveal Stalin's City will not accomplish anything, since we'll get that same info from the World Map.
However, not having taken Peace yet may provide an opportunity to teleport some of the Horse Archers in Moscow forward to Yar this turn.
If we keep our wounded mounted Units on the move, perhaps they can heal on Mehmed's side of the water, with us Galley-chaining a healer (a Woodsman III Unit) over to Mehmed's side of the water.
Yes, but only if we weren't going to get his World Map, but we will get his World Map, so moving the Chariot there won't give us that extra info.
Now that we may be moving wounded Units out of Moscow, maybe it will instead make sense to put those wounded Units on the nearby boats instead of the Chariot, but then we could still push the Chariot forward so that it could board a boat next turn that other Units would be unable to reach, i.e. a boat inside of Istanbul, and we could have our Great General go with our Chariot, if for no other reason than to be prepared to have our Great General board the farthest-away Galley, freeing up a future Galley slot for the Galleys that can make 2 or 3 trips back and forth while they wait for the last Galley to arrive. Only after all 5 of the Galleys are on the same square as each other, along with no other Units except for the Great General, can we use the Great General, so it may make sense to send the Great General ahead to board the last Galley, by way of boarding Galley 8 (currently inside of Istanbul) alongside of Chariot 13 next turn. HA 12 could similarly board Galley 9 (currently inside of Istanbul) next turn, by being able to move father ahead this turn.
If a Unit does not move, it will:
- Heal
- Gain a Fortification bonus if that Unit can get one, starting from the second turn of not moving (most mounted Units cannot get one, but Darius' Immortals, which replace Chariots, are one exception to this rule, as Immortals CAN get Defensive Bonuses and thus they can also get a Fortification bonus)
These actions happen at the same time as each other. You can literally press the Skip Turn button for every Unit that you want to both Heal and Fortify and the Unit will do both of those things; it will just mean more pressing of the Spacebar key for you, but there is no difference as far as the game is concerned.
If weren't under deadline pressure, I'd be happy to post a lot of screenshots in the Turnset Reports, set up some test games to demonstrate the concepts, and create more screenshots with text on them like I did of the initial assault on Russia, to make the plans clearer. But, we lack that time. So, to all of the Lurkers and to our fellow teammates, sorry, but you're just going to have to keep suffering with less details that we'd love to provide.
I will stress again that I dislike this style of rushed playing and I much prefer to be in a position where I have time to teach and share my knowledge of this game with good images. With our current deadline, I don't see a way to make that happen.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
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- Aug 12, 2006
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Here's what we get with healing with our Woodsman III healer in the City:
Zhuge heals 2.1 Health to full Health in 1 turn
HA 11 heals somewhere just under 2.5 Health in 1 turn, being almost healed
HA 8 heals 1.9 Health to full Health in 1 turn
Chariot 8 heals 1.1 Health to full Health in 1 turn
Without the Woodsman III Unit there:
Zhuge needs 2 turns to heal (+1 turn to heal)
HA11 needs 3 turns to heal (+2 turns to heal fully)
HA 8 needs 2 turns to heal (+1 turn to heal)
Chariot 8 needs 2 turns to heal (+1 turn to heal)
A quick test with a City with similar Cultural Border expansion as Stalin's City to the east of Moscow shows that teleportation happens with down before left, putting us into a City that I captured from the Barbs so that it would be in City Revolt just like Yar is in the real game, so if we move our wounded Units 2 SE out of Moscow to 1 N of Yar, our Units should teleport into Yar this turn, after we make Peace with Stalin.
On T118, these 4 Units load into Galleys 6 and 7, still not yet having healed.
On T119, these 4 Units unload into Istanbul, probably unloading from the sea without movement points for the less-wounded Units, but perhaps with the two most-wounded Units (HA 11 and Zhuge) unloading inside of Istanbul, allowing one Galley to be able to shuttle over two more troops, but possibly unloading all of them from the sea.
On T118, our Axeman 5 must move 1 SE G For > 1 SW P Road (1 E of Rostov), otherwise he gets delayed a turn. On T120, he can board a Galley and can get chained to inside of Istanbul, thereby providing healing to any wounded Units inside of Istanbul who arrived in Istanbul on T119 or earlier, or who unload from a Galley that was boarded on T119 if those Units unload directly inside of Istanbul.
That way, we get our shorter-term healing, but we get it inside of Istanbul instead of inside of Moscow.
Meanwhile, Galleys 8 and 9 will shuttle the troops that can move ahead this turn:
Auitzotl, our Great General (maybe we should rename him so that we'll try hard to keep him alive)
HA 12
Chariot 13 (the Chariot that needn't explore Russia's City since we will be talking Stalin's World Map)
The same reasoning is why we're probably best off pushing wounded HA 10 in the north all of the way south before stopping to heal, as he can heal in less total turns with a Woodsman III Unit on hand, so moving and then healing alongside of a Woodsman III Unit is likely to take less turns than healing by himself and only later moving.
Okay, with the logistics issue resolved, I'll go back to looking at what I'll have to do in our Cities to get our Universities built.
Zhuge heals 2.1 Health to full Health in 1 turn
HA 11 heals somewhere just under 2.5 Health in 1 turn, being almost healed
HA 8 heals 1.9 Health to full Health in 1 turn
Chariot 8 heals 1.1 Health to full Health in 1 turn
Without the Woodsman III Unit there:
Zhuge needs 2 turns to heal (+1 turn to heal)
HA11 needs 3 turns to heal (+2 turns to heal fully)
HA 8 needs 2 turns to heal (+1 turn to heal)
Chariot 8 needs 2 turns to heal (+1 turn to heal)
A quick test with a City with similar Cultural Border expansion as Stalin's City to the east of Moscow shows that teleportation happens with down before left, putting us into a City that I captured from the Barbs so that it would be in City Revolt just like Yar is in the real game, so if we move our wounded Units 2 SE out of Moscow to 1 N of Yar, our Units should teleport into Yar this turn, after we make Peace with Stalin.
On T118, these 4 Units load into Galleys 6 and 7, still not yet having healed.
On T119, these 4 Units unload into Istanbul, probably unloading from the sea without movement points for the less-wounded Units, but perhaps with the two most-wounded Units (HA 11 and Zhuge) unloading inside of Istanbul, allowing one Galley to be able to shuttle over two more troops, but possibly unloading all of them from the sea.
On T118, our Axeman 5 must move 1 SE G For > 1 SW P Road (1 E of Rostov), otherwise he gets delayed a turn. On T120, he can board a Galley and can get chained to inside of Istanbul, thereby providing healing to any wounded Units inside of Istanbul who arrived in Istanbul on T119 or earlier, or who unload from a Galley that was boarded on T119 if those Units unload directly inside of Istanbul.
That way, we get our shorter-term healing, but we get it inside of Istanbul instead of inside of Moscow.
Meanwhile, Galleys 8 and 9 will shuttle the troops that can move ahead this turn:
Auitzotl, our Great General (maybe we should rename him so that we'll try hard to keep him alive)
HA 12
Chariot 13 (the Chariot that needn't explore Russia's City since we will be talking Stalin's World Map)
The same reasoning is why we're probably best off pushing wounded HA 10 in the north all of the way south before stopping to heal, as he can heal in less total turns with a Woodsman III Unit on hand, so moving and then healing alongside of a Woodsman III Unit is likely to take less turns than healing by himself and only later moving.
Okay, with the logistics issue resolved, I'll go back to looking at what I'll have to do in our Cities to get our Universities built.
So, the world map also reveals the units that are in a city? For just the turn it is traded or ongoing?
Now I'll stop asking questions. You've provided an abundance of education this game. Don't worry about it. Just go ahead and play and enjoy it.
Now I'll stop asking questions. You've provided an abundance of education this game. Don't worry about it. Just go ahead and play and enjoy it.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
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- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
Okay, so we got a bit better price than planned, which was nice.
This next time, we cannot necessarily rely on getting the same deal.
For one, we're not certain that one of our Cities would be one of the Trade Routes in Jackpot. For another, we might gift Jackpot to Hatty and then declare war on Hatty before she learns Nationalism, in which case we would definitely not get the Trade Route discount, since you can't get that discount while at war with an AI (except maybe with some UN Resolution trickery, but The UN won't have been built in our game).
Also, Hatty has been spending a bit more on EPs recently, which may have caused the relative cost to go up.
Plus, she put 2 Culture into Jackpot for 1 turn, so we might not get the full Culture discount.
Thus, let's conservatively estimate Music as costing us 250 EPs.
Using the same test game as before (I think that I posted a copy in our thread), when Music costs 215 EPs, Nationalism costs 645 EPs. When Music costs 282 EPs, Nationalism costs 847 EPs. So, Nationalism would cost us about 740 EPs.
That would mean us wanting to collect just under 1000 EPs against Hatty in the worst case.
That's a very conservative estimate and we might end up needing less EPs, particularly if we can steal Nationalism before we are ready to declare war on Hatty, but if she slows down her tech pace, that's about the cost to us.
One valid option that I think makes sense to follow would be to simply collect about 860 EPs, which would potentially get us both Nationalism and Music if we can steal them before declaring war on Hatty and if our additional EP spending actually drives the cost down even further while the Culture discount is mostly intact, but would still get us at least Nationalism even when we're at war with Hatty, assuming that at least one of the Spies is successful in its Mission.
We don't really need Music, as far as I can tell, so we can probably aim to get up to about 800 EPs and let our Courthouses passively accumulate the rest of the EPs.
What the World Map will do is reveal Stalin's explored squares, which include where his Cities are located.
One turn after we have revealed one of Stalin's Cities, the "City Visibility" Passive Espionage Effect will take place.
So, we won't actually see what's in Stalin's Cities until the turn after we take a Peace Treaty (T118), and that will only happen if we have accumulated enough EPs for each individual City to meet or exceed that City's "City Visibility" Passive Effect's cost. Each City differs in value due to factors such as distance from our Palace, I think distance from the AI's Palace, the Religion in the City, perhaps the City's Size or the City's historically highest Size, and maybe other factors.
We SHOULD have enough EPs, but if we don't, and we really want to see what's in Stalin's Cities, we can adjust our EP Weighting to spend a few EPs on him.
Ideally, Cities would have had Commerce bar weightings. Yes, that idea sounds like it would mean more micro, but in reality it would have meant less micro overall if, say, Paris always was at a 100% Science Rate for the entire game and other Cities were at a 100% Gold Rate and those weightings rarely changed, while we're frequently having to switch our Commerce Rates due to rounding errors created by the current system, and for other reasons, such as wanting to accumulate Gold before we learn what an AI will tech as their next tech. But, this feature doesn't exist in the game for Commerce overall--yet, it's nice that it does exist for Espionage, so that it's not "all or nothing" being spent on each AI.
Please don't stop asking questions. Questions are great and are very welcomed!
Answering questions also helps me a lot by preventing me from doing stupid things that are related to the questions being asked. My only complaint was that I am frustrated at not having the time to give better explanations, complete with pictures and/or test games to better demonstrate the answers.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
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PPP
Worker Plan (it has not been updated to indicate that this turn's actions were already performed)
Worker 1 Heads to the GH For at 3 S of XO Cognac -> pre-Chops it -> we'll want to Chop it into the University
Worker 2 Roads the Ivory -> moves to the P Riv at 1 NW of Ivory Coast and Farms it
Worker 3 We don't want to finish the GH Mine on which he's standing until it's time to build the University, so he can move to the Tun for at 1 W of Argent to pre-Chop it for Argent's University
Worker 4 pre-Chop the G For at 1 NE + 1 E of Ruby Bay
Worker 5 Move to London's Fur (we can Road it and pre-Chop it)
Worker 6 move to the For at 1 S of Aberdeen and pre-Chop it
Worker 7 Build a road on the GH For on the way to the Resort
Worker 8 Already moved, but as a precaution, we could probably have him move to the GH that Paris and Orleans share and Mine it, in case we end up needing the Hammers
Worker 9 Build a Cottage and STOP
Worker 13 (on the same square as Worker 9) Build a Cottage and STOP
Worker 16 (1 NE + 1 E of St. Pete's) move 1 SW to the pRoad sign (1E of St. Pete's) where we'll complete the Road, and then we'll move 1 SE to the GH For to Chop it into St. Pete's University
Worker 11 (4 S of St. Pete's) We'll want to Chop the G Riv For at 1 SW + 1 S of St. Pete's on T122, meaning arriving on that square on T119, so for 2 turns, we can pre-Chop the G For Road at 1 SE of St. Pete's
Worker 10 (1 NW of Yar) will complete its Road next turn
Worker 15 (1 W of Moscow) will complete its Road next turn
Worker 12 (2 E of Paris) move 1 S G Riv Cot (1 W of the Winery) and Road--he can then help with pre-Chopping around Paris and one of our near-Paris Workers might even Road out Cow for Resource-trading purposes
The Unnamed Worker at 1 NE of Transylvania (no movement points this turn) could probably start building our Fort there, so that we'd have the option of using a navy in the north
Worker 14 (2 E of Ruby Bay) can pre-Chop that Forest
Some Logistics
if we move our wounded Units 2 SE out of Moscow to 1 N of Yar, our Units should teleport into Yar this turn, after we make Peace with Stalin.
On T118, these 4 Units load into Galleys 6 and 7, still not yet having healed.
On T119, these 4 Units unload into Istanbul, probably unloading from the sea without movement points for the less-wounded Units, but perhaps with the two most-wounded Units (HA 11 and Zhuge) unloading inside of Istanbul, allowing one Galley to be able to shuttle over two more troops, but possibly unloading all of them from the sea.
On T118, our Axeman 5 must move 1 SE G For > 1 SW P Road (1 E of Rostov), otherwise he gets delayed a turn. On T120, he can board a Galley and can get chained to inside of Istanbul, thereby providing healing to any wounded Units inside of Istanbul who arrived in Istanbul on T119 or earlier, or who unload from a Galley that was boarded on T119 if those Units unload directly inside of Istanbul.
That way, we get our shorter-term healing, but we get it inside of Istanbul instead of inside of Moscow.
Meanwhile, Galleys 8 and 9 will shuttle the troops that can move ahead this turn:
Auitzotl, our Great General (maybe we should rename him so that we'll try hard to keep him alive)
HA 12
Chariot 13 (the Chariot that needn't explore Russia's City since we will be talking Stalin's World Map)
Axe 4 in St. Pete's can move southward
It actually looks like Catapults from Hamburg will move faster by marching along land through Germany than by Galley-chaining to St. Pete's
(Axeman 12 seems to have already been moved through Germany using this line of thinking)
A Catapult that gets Galley-chained all of the way from Cologne can arrive faster by Galley-chaining than by marching, though, so we can plan on using our Galleys for that task
Other Items
Bribe Kublai off of Stalin <-> Philosophy
World Map and Peace from Stalin after our wounded mounted Units from Moscow have moved
Try to collect up to about 860 EPs against Hatty at some point
At some point, it will be nice to get Christianity into Rostov, as it's still a good location in which to build our Forbidden Palace. For now, we can start on a Forge and we could optionally switch to building a Catpult 1 turn before we reach Size 4
Key Build Item, Chopping, and Whipping Dates
T118 Orleans' Cat gets 2-pop-whipped
T118 London builds a University and steals the Hammer-producing squares
T118 Ruby Bay switches GH For -> Farm
T118 St. Pete's builds a Forge
T118 Jackpot builds a Christian Missionary
T119 St. Pete's builds a Library
T119 Orleans works Hammer-based squares to complete another Christian Missionary
T119? As soon as Argent's Forge becomes a 2-pop-whipping action, whip it
T119 Ivory Coast whips its Work Boat
T119 Jackpot whips its Christian Missionary (and Galley 2 moves into position to pick him up)
T120? As soon as XO Cognac's Forge becomes a 2-pop-whipping action, whip it
T120 St. Pete's whips the Forge
T120 1st Chop at Ruby Bay
T120 Athens decides whether or not to whip its Library, depending upon whether Christianity was spread successfully in Ruby Bay this turn
T120? T121? Paris puts some Hammers into a Christian Temple (less than 20 final Hammers)
T121? XO Cognac whips its Library; 1 Chop to XO Cognac when we whip its Library or on a later turn
T121 St. Pete's whips the Library
T121 Argent 2-pop-whips its Library
T121 1-pop-whip the Library at Ruby Bay
T122 2nd Chop at Ruby Bay
T122 2 Chops at Argent
T122? 1 Chop at London
Diplo Policy
(No one discussed it, so I'll just throw one together to be commented on)
Switch Religions? No
Stop trading with another AI? No
Give an AI a Strategic Resource? No
Give an AI a Happiness or a Healthiness Resource? Yes
Requests for two-sided trades or Open Borders should be refused.
Requests for Peace should be refused.
Give an AI a tech?
No to: Churchill (it's nice to be able to declare war on him at will), Stalin (why bother, he hates us too much for us to be able to repair the damage and we'll get Open Borders soon enough when we're at war with Mehmed), Mehmed (we'll declare war on him soon), and Hatty (we'll declare war on her soon)
No for: Monarchy, Civil Service, Horseback Riding, Construction, Metal Casting, Paper, and Education
Yes to other tech requests
Join a war? No
Trade a tech for a tech and/or Gold? No--let's discuss tech trades and put them in a PPP
Hopefully, I'll get some feedback on the PPP while I think through some of the Unit logistics and work on some math for some of the City Build items. I don't know how far I'll play, but I'll probably only have time for a few turns, and then someone else can pick up the game to carry us onward with the completion of our Universities + Oxford, the warring against Mehmed, the shuttling of troops toward Thebes, and the Chopping of MoM at Aberdeen.
Worker Plan (it has not been updated to indicate that this turn's actions were already performed)
Worker 1 Heads to the GH For at 3 S of XO Cognac -> pre-Chops it -> we'll want to Chop it into the University
Worker 2 Roads the Ivory -> moves to the P Riv at 1 NW of Ivory Coast and Farms it
Worker 3 We don't want to finish the GH Mine on which he's standing until it's time to build the University, so he can move to the Tun for at 1 W of Argent to pre-Chop it for Argent's University
Worker 4 pre-Chop the G For at 1 NE + 1 E of Ruby Bay
Worker 5 Move to London's Fur (we can Road it and pre-Chop it)
Worker 6 move to the For at 1 S of Aberdeen and pre-Chop it
Worker 7 Build a road on the GH For on the way to the Resort
Worker 8 Already moved, but as a precaution, we could probably have him move to the GH that Paris and Orleans share and Mine it, in case we end up needing the Hammers
Worker 9 Build a Cottage and STOP
Worker 13 (on the same square as Worker 9) Build a Cottage and STOP
Worker 16 (1 NE + 1 E of St. Pete's) move 1 SW to the pRoad sign (1E of St. Pete's) where we'll complete the Road, and then we'll move 1 SE to the GH For to Chop it into St. Pete's University
Worker 11 (4 S of St. Pete's) We'll want to Chop the G Riv For at 1 SW + 1 S of St. Pete's on T122, meaning arriving on that square on T119, so for 2 turns, we can pre-Chop the G For Road at 1 SE of St. Pete's
Worker 10 (1 NW of Yar) will complete its Road next turn
Worker 15 (1 W of Moscow) will complete its Road next turn
Worker 12 (2 E of Paris) move 1 S G Riv Cot (1 W of the Winery) and Road--he can then help with pre-Chopping around Paris and one of our near-Paris Workers might even Road out Cow for Resource-trading purposes
The Unnamed Worker at 1 NE of Transylvania (no movement points this turn) could probably start building our Fort there, so that we'd have the option of using a navy in the north
Worker 14 (2 E of Ruby Bay) can pre-Chop that Forest
Some Logistics
if we move our wounded Units 2 SE out of Moscow to 1 N of Yar, our Units should teleport into Yar this turn, after we make Peace with Stalin.
On T118, these 4 Units load into Galleys 6 and 7, still not yet having healed.
On T119, these 4 Units unload into Istanbul, probably unloading from the sea without movement points for the less-wounded Units, but perhaps with the two most-wounded Units (HA 11 and Zhuge) unloading inside of Istanbul, allowing one Galley to be able to shuttle over two more troops, but possibly unloading all of them from the sea.
On T118, our Axeman 5 must move 1 SE G For > 1 SW P Road (1 E of Rostov), otherwise he gets delayed a turn. On T120, he can board a Galley and can get chained to inside of Istanbul, thereby providing healing to any wounded Units inside of Istanbul who arrived in Istanbul on T119 or earlier, or who unload from a Galley that was boarded on T119 if those Units unload directly inside of Istanbul.
That way, we get our shorter-term healing, but we get it inside of Istanbul instead of inside of Moscow.
Meanwhile, Galleys 8 and 9 will shuttle the troops that can move ahead this turn:
Auitzotl, our Great General (maybe we should rename him so that we'll try hard to keep him alive)
HA 12
Chariot 13 (the Chariot that needn't explore Russia's City since we will be talking Stalin's World Map)
Axe 4 in St. Pete's can move southward
It actually looks like Catapults from Hamburg will move faster by marching along land through Germany than by Galley-chaining to St. Pete's
(Axeman 12 seems to have already been moved through Germany using this line of thinking)
A Catapult that gets Galley-chained all of the way from Cologne can arrive faster by Galley-chaining than by marching, though, so we can plan on using our Galleys for that task
Other Items
Bribe Kublai off of Stalin <-> Philosophy
World Map and Peace from Stalin after our wounded mounted Units from Moscow have moved
Try to collect up to about 860 EPs against Hatty at some point
At some point, it will be nice to get Christianity into Rostov, as it's still a good location in which to build our Forbidden Palace. For now, we can start on a Forge and we could optionally switch to building a Catpult 1 turn before we reach Size 4
Key Build Item, Chopping, and Whipping Dates
T118 Orleans' Cat gets 2-pop-whipped
T118 London builds a University and steals the Hammer-producing squares
T118 Ruby Bay switches GH For -> Farm
T118 St. Pete's builds a Forge
T118 Jackpot builds a Christian Missionary
T119 St. Pete's builds a Library
T119 Orleans works Hammer-based squares to complete another Christian Missionary
T119? As soon as Argent's Forge becomes a 2-pop-whipping action, whip it
T119 Ivory Coast whips its Work Boat
T119 Jackpot whips its Christian Missionary (and Galley 2 moves into position to pick him up)
T120? As soon as XO Cognac's Forge becomes a 2-pop-whipping action, whip it
T120 St. Pete's whips the Forge
T120 1st Chop at Ruby Bay
T120 Athens decides whether or not to whip its Library, depending upon whether Christianity was spread successfully in Ruby Bay this turn
T120? T121? Paris puts some Hammers into a Christian Temple (less than 20 final Hammers)
T121? XO Cognac whips its Library; 1 Chop to XO Cognac when we whip its Library or on a later turn
T121 St. Pete's whips the Library
T121 Argent 2-pop-whips its Library
T121 1-pop-whip the Library at Ruby Bay
T122 2nd Chop at Ruby Bay
T122 2 Chops at Argent
T122? 1 Chop at London
Diplo Policy
(No one discussed it, so I'll just throw one together to be commented on)
Switch Religions? No
Stop trading with another AI? No
Give an AI a Strategic Resource? No
Give an AI a Happiness or a Healthiness Resource? Yes
Requests for two-sided trades or Open Borders should be refused.
Requests for Peace should be refused.
Give an AI a tech?
No to: Churchill (it's nice to be able to declare war on him at will), Stalin (why bother, he hates us too much for us to be able to repair the damage and we'll get Open Borders soon enough when we're at war with Mehmed), Mehmed (we'll declare war on him soon), and Hatty (we'll declare war on her soon)
No for: Monarchy, Civil Service, Horseback Riding, Construction, Metal Casting, Paper, and Education
Yes to other tech requests
Join a war? No
Trade a tech for a tech and/or Gold? No--let's discuss tech trades and put them in a PPP
Hopefully, I'll get some feedback on the PPP while I think through some of the Unit logistics and work on some math for some of the City Build items. I don't know how far I'll play, but I'll probably only have time for a few turns, and then someone else can pick up the game to carry us onward with the completion of our Universities + Oxford, the warring against Mehmed, the shuttling of troops toward Thebes, and the Chopping of MoM at Aberdeen.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
I'll be playing shortly and will edit the results in here.
Turnset Report
T117, 50 AD
We open the game to find that it has been very well microed. Nice work, CP!
XO Cognac steals Paris' unworked Farm in place of working a Coast
Let me stall for time to possibly get feedback on the PPP. We patiently take screenshots of the F4 TECHS and F4 RESOURCES screens--that's the only real secret to tracking what the AIs tech, improve, or trade each turn--compare the changes from turn to turn and look for reasons why those changes exist.
On the F4 RELATIONS screen, we make note of the few relationships that don't exist between the AIs:
1. Saladin and Khan have not met each other
2. Churchill and Hatty have not met each other (which is good, as it keeps these relatively-technologically-advanced AIs believing that their techs are more of monopoly techs)
3. Joao and Churchill have not met each other
4. Joao and Mao have not met each other
5. Joao and Khan have not met each other
6. Hatty and Mao have not met each other
AIs who are no one's Worst Enemy:
1. Frederick
2. Churchill
3. Mehmed (although Stalin may soon hate him more than Stalin hates us)
4. Saladin
5. Joao
6. Stalin
AIs who have a Worst Enemy but we don't really care about offending that Worst Enemy:
7. Mao (Frederick's Worst Enemy)
AIs who are hated by 2 other AIs and thus it's diplomatically challenging to trade techs with them:
8. Kublai (Darius' Worst Enemy and Hatty's Worst Enemy)
9. Hatty (Kublai's Worst Enemy and Joao's Worst Enemy)
AIs who are hated by 1 other AI:
10. Darius (Saladin's Worst Enemy)
11. The Unmet AI (Mehmed's Worst Enemy)
Friendly Relationships:
1. Saladin is Friendly toward Mehmed (primarily due to Shared State Religion)
Galley 5 sees that picking up the Hamburg Catapult will only delay its advance, so it instead sails westward to help with picking up Cologne's Catapult
As suggested by CP, Galley 1 moves into position to ferry HA 10 from where it razed Vlad into St. Pete's--we can still arrive in our Galley chain to help out with chaining Cologne's Cat
Wounded Units in Moscow move to 1 N of Yar
Kublai takes a Cease Fire with Stalin in exchange for Philosophy and then he winks at us
Stalin will not give us either of his Cities for Peace (don't say that I didn't try), so we accept his World Map in compensation instead
We now see that Kublai is to the east of Russia and Mao is to the south-east of Kublai
I don't see an "Orient" sign yet, but I do see a "Bridge to Far East" sign and a "The Far East" sign.
We also see that there's a path through Darius' lands such that Russia doesn't need to be attacked if a team doesn't mind fighting through 3 of Darius' Cities and keeping one total junkpile of a City. For us, we can just capture 2 Russian Cities for the equivalent.
On that note, we have enough EPs to get City Visibility of all of Stalin's Cities next turn.
T118, 75 AD
Educated ladies and gentlemen flock to our lands as we prepare to build institutions of higher learning
Hatty has a War Chariot that has moved to the west of Istanbul, while Mehmed's Horse Archer has also moved to the west of Istanbul; his Horse Archer is Combat II, so I'm not sure how we'll best deal with it
Hamburg steals the second Sheep from Frederick and starts to build another Catapult
London steals the Horse and Stone Resources and starts building a University
Ruby Bay switches the GH For to the G Riv Farm
If Athens doesn't need to build its University, we may want to build a Forge and then a Market after our Library, to partner up with the 2 settled Great Prophets there
Kublai has switched into Pacifism
Churchill is willing to negotiate with us
Novgorod (the City to the east of Moscow) has 2 Iron Resources in its big fat cross. It is defended by a Combat II Spearman, a Combat II Swordsman, and a City Garrison I Archer and has City Walls for 50% Cultural Defences. The City is Size 7 and could pump out Military Units quite quickly.
Smolensk, to the north-east of Novgorod, is defended by 2 Swords and 1 Spear
Stalin appears to have 1 Worker remaining who looks like he will start improving either the Horse or Cows by Moscow (sure, go ahead, work on our behalf, we don't mind!
)
Darius seems to be sending a bit of an army through Stalin's lands in the direction of Churchill's capital. Could Churchill be Darius' war target?
I can't say that I like seeing all of Darius' Units near our ex-Russian holdings, with him being within striking distance of both Yar and Moscow next turn and him already having a fist of war.
The prudent thing to do seems to be to sell him Aesthetics for 40 Gold and then Request/Demand 10 Gold from him. The risk with this approach is that if he trades Marble to another AI, we won't be able to declare war on Darius for 10 turns from now.
I'll make this trade:
40 Gold from Darius <-> Aesthetics
to see if doing so bring him up to Pleased with us.
Darius threw in his World Map and gives us +4 Fair and Forthright Trading, but is still Cautious toward us; at least he'll have a lower chance of declaring war at Cautious.
With his forces nearby consisting of 3 Spearmen, 1 Axeman, and an Immortal, I'll send our Axemen from St. Pete's toward Moscow along the Roads as a precaution, still arriving in the south at the same time thanks to our Workers completing the Roads this turn, but allowing us to recover from Darius backstabbing us without us having to Demand his 10 Gold
Saladin gave us -2 for Trading with his Worst Enemy (Darius) but is still at Cautious toward us and I'm hopeful that one of those negative Diplo points will wear off soon enough
We see that the last AI is India, located to the south-east of Darius' lands
It looks as though an alternate path to China is through Darius and then India, followed by taking additional Chinese Cities. I imagine that we'll go through Kublai, though, so that we don't have to deal with other AIs' City Culture consuming the Cities that we capture
Also, India has access to Ivory
Paris 1-pop-whips its Market to help with accumulating Gold
Orleans 2-pop-whips its Catapult
Our Workers complete 3 segments of Road, completing the connection between Transylvania and the Black Sea (the body of water to the north-east of Istanbul)
003 and Spy 11 arrive inside of Jackpot
We have plenty of Happiness in Paris, but it seems prudent to keep our 2 Chariots there, as they can quickly become Military Police Units in other Cities (such as Lyons) or can help us to deal with recapturing Cities from Hatty later
Hatty has an Archer roaming around Germany
It looks as though Thebes has fired its Specialists in order to work Hammer-based squares--that's good, as it means it will complete The Shwedagon Paya (too bad it wasn't MoM) in 6 turns' time and thus the City is very unlikely to generate a Great Engineer before we're ready to capture the City (i.e. Hatty won't be able to build The Taj Mahal before we can build it)
A wounded Zhuge and a wounded HA 11 (the two most wounded Units out of the 4 Units that were in Moscow) board Galley 7, while the other two wounded Units board Galley 6. It is interesting to note that our first major use of our southern navy to shuttle troops has been in the Black Sea
I look for opportunities for our Units to still arrive on the Galleys at the same turn as they would have arrived on the Galleys had they moved their full movement points this turn, while also not using all of their movement points this turn so that they can guard our Cities and our Worker in case Darius attacks us. I.e. An Axeman that could have moved to 1 SW of Yar won't be able to get on a Galley on the Fish at 1 NE + 2 N of Istanbul any faster than if the Axeman were to stop in Yar this turn, so the Axeman stops in Yar this turn. Similarly, 2 Chariots would not be able to arrive on that Fish before T120, so they help to guard Moscow, while still being able to arrive on that Fish on T120. Opportunities to micro always exist if you look for them.
Frederick has learned Calendar, but no other AI picked up a tech, so he either used Gold to buy it or self-teched it himself
Frederick wants Sheep now (we took it from him culturally)
We have restored our Trade Network with Kublai without having lost our 4 Gold per Turn <-> Fish trade
Saladin has hooked up a second source of Incense
I'm not sure that we're really going to be able to block a lot of Resources that could get traded to Darius, so we can either hope that:
i. Darius declares war on us and we capture/raze his City to the south of Mehmed's City of Edirne, so that Mehmed can trade us Marble
ii. Darius simply doesn't trade away Marble on the first turn of getting it
Jackpot steals a Cottage from Paris, allowing Paris to work an unworked Cottage
Joao has sent out a Galley and it is currently located 1 NE of Spice Girls Island
I'm not sure what it will be best to build in Gold Coast and Ivory Coast after we build our Granaries in those Cities, but I imagine that Horse Archers will be good choices, to help with the conquest of Hatty's Cities
Hatty has a Settler Party at 1 SE + 1 E of Memphis consisting of a Settler and a War Chariot
Joao has a fist icon that he didn't have last turn, so he may be plotting a war against one of Hatty, Darius, Stalin, or India. He won't declare war at Pleased, so he isn't targeting us
T119, 100 AD
Darius demands that we convert to Taoism. I refuse, as per the Diplo Policy, but I am concerned. I'm not sure which would be worse: him declaring war on us or him trading away Marble after we've Demanded 10 turns of Peace
He does need to be Cautious toward us to be willing to trade us a Strategic Resource, though, so I'm a bit hesitant, especially after just having taken a -1 Diplo hit for refusing his Demand
As per our Diplo Policy, we vote No to Stop Trading with Frederick when the AP Vote comes up
We can't build a Missionary in Orleans since we have 3 being built or already built; I had to remove the Missionary from the London build queue
Since London comes before Jackpot in the order of Cities, we won't lose our Hammers in the London Missionary as long as we use 1 Missionary next turn, which we will do (we'll try to spread Christianity in Ruby Bay, and if it fails, Oxford will get delayed)
Orleans can complete its Christian Missionary and also grow to Size 4 this turn
St. Pete's switches to building a Library
Argent's Forge gets 2-pop-whipped
Both Hamburg and Cologne 2-pop-whip their Cats; Cologne steals the Fish from Hamburg since Hamburg has 2 Sheep to work
Ivory Coast whips its Work Boat, allowing there to be enough Hammers to be able to 1-pop-whip its Granary
Jackpot 1-pop-whips its Christian Missionary and Paris steals back its G Riv Cottage
We will put 74 H into Paris' University, which is about what we wanted to do, with 79 H being the maximum that we could have put into it
As long as we can spread Christianity in Ruby Bay, a quickly 1-turn-built Oxford looks to be on track; failing that, we'd still have a chance of recovering with probably only a 1-turn delay with 2 backup Christian Missionaries being built next turn
Munich's Cultural Borders currently control some Forest Chops that we'd want to go to St. Pete's for The Taj Mahal; presumably, we'd get control of those Forests and Chop them before capturing Munich
Stalin is Roading Moscow's Horse
Joao has learned Feudalism, which aligns with him feeling war-like
Mehmed's has a Horse Archer at 1 SW + 1 S of Edirne, while he has another Horse Archer at 2 NW of Istanbul, with both of them being Combat II; instead of a Catapult, Rostov will whip a War Elephant
A Christian Missionary arrives in Ruby Bay and will attempt to spread next turn
Meanwhile, Galley 2 positions itself at 1 NW + 2 N of Paris where it can pick up both the Orleans Missionary and the Jackpot Missionary next turn, then be able to unload both of them in York on T121 for 2 additional chances to spread Christianity in Ruby Bay. We aren't going to leave the University plan down to luck after all, yay!
Joao's Galley has moved 1 square further west while Frederick's Galley has headed toward Joao; Joao is already Pleased toward Frederick and they have Open Borders with each other
Yuck, Frederick has learned Monarchy
Saladin learned Monotheism
Mao learned Monotheism
Hatty is receiving Ivory in trade, presumably from India. She no longer wants Ivory and I can't see Ivory in her Cultural Borders anywhere
T120, 125 AD
Our 10 turns of enforced Peace with Hatty have worn off
We are not forced to stop trading with Frederick:
We vote No for 6 votes
Hatty votes No for 60 votes
Mehmed votes Yes for 30 votes
Saladin votes Yes for 52 votes
82 votes said Yes, while 91/148 were required for the Resolution to pass
Christianity has spread successfully in Ruby Bay!!!
Mehmed's Horse Archer is now 3 S of Rostov. As much as I'd like to hold onto the population points for a Forge, I think that we may have to 2-pop-whip a War Elephant there just to keep tabs on Mehmed's Horse Archer
Our 5 Galleys receive 4 XP each and the Great General gets renamed to Leif Erikson for good luck. I gave that Galley Morale for +1 movement and Combat I, just to deter AI Galleys from thinking that our stack of Galleys is weak and vulnerable. Now our Galleys are so speedy that the microing of troop transfers should become a lot easier.
We've already got 9 Units on Mehmed's side of the Black Sea
Paris will put 18 Hammers into a Christian Temple (just shy of 20 Hammers, which would be too many Hammers), so that we can 2-pop-whip it on T122, then 3-pop-whip the University on T123, then if all goes well, overflow into building Oxford on T124.
XO Cognac 2-pop-whips its Forge
Orleans could start on another Catapult, but I'm wondering if maybe it's time to build a Forge there
It's important to note that Orleans and Cologne can share G Riv Farms with each other when one of them whips away the citizens working those Farms
Eventually, these Cities might want Courthouses, and they may just end up Drafting more than they slow-build Units, so I'm not sure that we need Forges, but Orleans has several GH squares, so it could probably do with a Forge. Hamburg has a lot of Food and can whip (or Draft) a lot, and a Forge could offer +3 Happiness to help with Drafting, so it's probably worth it to get a Forge in Hamburg
I suppose that for now, Orleans can aim to get 2 more Christian Missionaries, one for each of Cologne and Hamburg, and then they can potentially begin building infrastructure, as newly-built Catapults won't reach the front lines for a while
Argent is building a Library
The Cultural Borders near the Marbles is weird... Darius had a Silver Resource and started to improve it, but now Mehmed controls it and it was Mehmed's Worker who finished improving it
Joao has started researching Machinery and is estimated to learn it in 15 turns' time... that timing may be too late to help us, but at least he has the right idea
Now that we have Christianity in Ruby Bay, we Chop a Forest into Ruby Bay
St. Pete's 3-pop-whips its Forge
Jackpot starts on a Spy to be whipped
Athens will not whip its Library and will just go back to building a Forge for now, since we're still at a 0% Science Rate
It's possible that with these speedier boats, we might be ready to declare war on Mehmed next turn, or if not, then for sure on T122. I'll have to take a closer look
If we spread Christianity into Cologne this turn, we can 1-pop-whip a Missionary there next turn.
If the Missionary goes straight to Rostov, it can spread on T123. If a Cologne-whipped Missionary spreads in Rostov, it can spread on T124. I think that this delay works well in order to better spread Christianity
Hatty is 6 turns away from learning Nationalism! She is 4 turns away from building The Swedagon Paya
With our speedier Galleys, Catapults from Hamburg can get to the front lines slightly faster via St. Pete's (by 1 turn) if the Catapults load at 3 S of Yar, otherwise they arrive at the same time, so I sent the Hamburg-built Cat alongside of the Cologne-built Cat on the Galley chain
Okay, it looks like T122 declaring on Mehmed will work better, since his southern Horse Archer is now guarding his Worker on the square near the Silver that Darius and Mehmed have been Culturally-swapping, so it would be nice to have our War Elephant be in position to take out that Horse Archer, scoring us a Unit that would otherwise be tough to kill and a free Worker to go along with it
Also, our Units need to heal in Instanbul and then move on T121 in order to get into proper position for attacking
Yes, T122 is the turn to attack Mehmed. I'm trying to work out which Units will be where...
A War Elephant to take on Mehmed's Horse Archer and Worker
Mounted troops to arrive at the gates of Edirne
Other troops to unload from Galleys at Istanbul
Possibly dropping off troops at Edirine, but I don't think that we'll have enough troops to drop off Units at both Cities at once
We might not be able to take both Cities at once, but at least we can drop off a Catapult near Istanbul
Hatty has hired 2 Artist Specialists in Macau, which will help when it comes to an Espionage Cultural Victory, since the more total Culture that exists in the City, the more Culture that each of our Spies will be able to spread with a Spread Culture Espionage Mission
Our Woody III healer arrives in Istanbul just in time to help with healing our wounded mounted troops in Istanbul
We finally connect a Cow Resource but hardly any AI wants one--Mehmed is one AI who will take one, though, so we can use Cow to get Marble if Darius declares war on us next turn (T121). Otherwise, we'll be declaring war on Mehmed on T122 and we'll just have to hope that Darius doesn't declare war on us. I'll be Chopping an Archer in Moscow so that we at least won't have to worry too much, and have kept an Axeman in Moscow who can't make it to the Galleys in time for a T122 landing
Kublai has learned Priesthood (but still doesn't yet know Monarchy)
We gift Fish to Stalin because he's no one's Worst Enemy and we literally have 14 of them sitting around stinking up our harbours...
T121, 150 AD
Kublai expanded to a new City for a second time this turnset
Darius just keeps wandering around Russian territory with his Units
Fortunately, Darius can only be bribed into a war if he is Friendly toward the player who wants to bribe him and is Annoyed or lower toward the player upon whom he would be bribed, neither condition being the case here
Unfortunately, Darius has just started getting Stone from Hatty for his Corn, so he may be encouraged to build City Walls soon; hopefully, we won't have to fight him
XO Cognac 1-pop-whips its Library and steals Paris' Copper just to be safe, since Paris doesn't need the Copper at the moment
Orleans 2-pop-whips another Missionary
Argent 2-pop-whips its Library
Cologne 1-pop-whips its Missionary
Ruby Bay 1-pop-whips its Library
Ivory Coast 1-pop-whips its Granary
St. Pete's 2-pop-whips its Library, allowing Moscow to steal the Wheat for a turn
Aberdeen will complete its Granary this turn
Yay, finally a quiet turn where no AIs learned any new techs
Frederick connected-up Frankfurt's Deer, meaning that he has a Road to there
Mao suddenly wants Fish; maybe he'd been getting it from Hatty, as now she hates him as her Worst Enemy for having traded with her previous Worst Enemy (Kublai)
We might as well sell Fish to Mao, since we'll be declaring war on Hatty within 10 turns
We take our Clam back from Mao and give him Fish for his Sugar instead, then trade Clam to Darius for 2 GPT, so that Darius won't trade Marble to Saladin for Clam
We can trade Fur and our only Deer to Darius for Marble, with the thinking that we can always Road another Deer later and we have lots of extra Health right now
We have 10 Units on Galleys, 1 War Elephant on the other side that may be 1 turn too late to capture Mehmed's Horse Archer and Worker (oh well), and 5 HAs and 8 Chariots on the other side. Mehmed is doomed. Let's just hope that Darius doesn't declare war on us opportunistically while our whole army is away from Russia.
Churchill is about to learn Metal Casting (1 turn away), so we Cease Fire and gift it to him, to increase his WFYABTA counter amongst the other AIs. Only Frederick likes him, so it's not like we'll anger a lot of people by redeclaring war on Churchill later
T122, 175 AD
Hatty founds a new City
Paris 2-pop-whips its Temple; next turn, it will 3-pop-whip its University and then all of those Hammers will overflow into Oxford University, assuming that all of the Universities get whipped next turn
XO Cognac starts on a University; we need 65 final Hammers for it to be 3-pop-whippable and we'll make 91 final Hammers, so we're good there
Lyons can whip its Forge once we spread Christianity there, then whip its Courthouse as one of our 6 Courthouses for The Forbidden Palace
London has 48 Hammers and can only make 12 Hammers, but it needs 88 final Hammers; the Fur thus gets Chopped--we make 1 less Hammer per turn, and earn 1 more Commerce per turn--we won't get 2 Hammers from that square during a Golden Age, but sacrifices sometimes have to be made for the greater good; 48 + 48 H will give us 96 H, which is more than the 88 H needed
Argent will actually put 103 H into a University and NOT Chop the other Forest this turn (we can just have Worker 3 build a Road and STOP on the TunFor at 1 W of Argent) so that the University is 3-pop-whippable, giving us a lot of overflow Hammers to go into Moai Statues, and then we can save that final Chop to also go into Moai--we can Chop it next turn when we whip the University (i.e. on T123) and the Hammers will overflow into Moai, giving us a quickly-built Moai
Hamburg just got Rostov's Missionary so that Orleans can build another Missionary with overflow Hammers for Lyons; that leaves Christian Missionary 10 spreading inside of Rostov on T125
Hamburg can build a Forge with some overflow Hammers and the benefit of Christianity, then once it grows to Size 6, it can 3-pop-whip the Forge, then 1-pop-whip its Lighthouse
Cologne should make enough overflow Hammers to be able to 1-pop-whip its Courthouse next turn, giving us our 6th Courthouse
The Chop at Ruby Bay will give us 81 Hammers going into the University. Uh oh. There must have been a flaw in the calculations somewhere, as we need 88 Hammers. That's unfortunate, but we'll get another 7 Hammers next turn, so hopefully the number 88 is accurate for a 3-pop-whipping action (I calculated the numbers by hand). I'll work a GH Riv square for an 8th Hammer this turn. So, that's disappointing, but it means delaying Oxford by 1 turn.
So, Paris, after it whips its Temple and whips its University, can build Wealth on T124 for 1 turn, to store the Hammers meant for overflowing into Oxford University
We were close, but not close enough... still, off by 1 turn of our target date is still fine, as we can just accumulate a bit more Gold before switching to a 100% Research Rate
Great news at Mehmed... the Worker and Horse Archer are still there, now building a Farm over top of the Cottage that just got built?!?!?!?! Really? Whatever. When we declare war, our War Elephant should teleport 2 S to the PH Jungle and then can attack the Horse Archer and kill the Worker
St. Pete's will put 130 H into its University. It needs 110 H for it to be 2-pop-whippable, so we can whip it.
Of course, we might as well just whip all of the Universities on the same turn as each other, i.e. Turn 124, and if we do that, Paris just builds Wealth on T123 to save up the overflow Hammers
Aberdeen, having just completed its Granary, can now work both Fish Resources, since our Cultural Borders just expanded over top of both of them
We have a Forest Chop available at 1 W of Moscow; since Darius didn't attack us, we could put it into a Granary, if we wanted, then 1-pop-whip the Granary, then once we have our Granary, steal the Wheat from St. Pete's
Mehmed has annoyingly moved his Horse Archer just out of reach of our War Elephant, so we'll probably have to be very careful... HA 10 in Moscow will probably have to move to defend Worker 11 at 1 SW + 1 S of St. Pete's after we declare war.
Another option could be to play "teleportation stuffing," where we take the 2 Cats at 1 W of Moscow and "stuff" one of them to 3 S of St. Pete's so that when we declare war on Mehmed, Mehmed's Horse Archer cannot teleport to that square and thus is likely to teleport to the G Riv For at 1 SW + 1 W of Moscow, where our Axeman 6 or our HA 10 can attack it (Axeman 6 would get a bonus to attacking the Horse Archer when the Horse Archer is in a Forest)
Unfortunately, Mao has learned Feudalism, independently of Joao, as they haven't met each other
It's time to declare war on Mehmed (first move a Catapult to block the Horse Archer from teleporting to an undesirable spot to the south of St. Pete's). Who wants to take it from here?
Saved game from Central
Turnset Report
T117, 50 AD
We open the game to find that it has been very well microed. Nice work, CP!
XO Cognac steals Paris' unworked Farm in place of working a Coast
Let me stall for time to possibly get feedback on the PPP. We patiently take screenshots of the F4 TECHS and F4 RESOURCES screens--that's the only real secret to tracking what the AIs tech, improve, or trade each turn--compare the changes from turn to turn and look for reasons why those changes exist.
On the F4 RELATIONS screen, we make note of the few relationships that don't exist between the AIs:
1. Saladin and Khan have not met each other
2. Churchill and Hatty have not met each other (which is good, as it keeps these relatively-technologically-advanced AIs believing that their techs are more of monopoly techs)
3. Joao and Churchill have not met each other
4. Joao and Mao have not met each other
5. Joao and Khan have not met each other
6. Hatty and Mao have not met each other
AIs who are no one's Worst Enemy:
1. Frederick
2. Churchill
3. Mehmed (although Stalin may soon hate him more than Stalin hates us)
4. Saladin
5. Joao
6. Stalin
AIs who have a Worst Enemy but we don't really care about offending that Worst Enemy:
7. Mao (Frederick's Worst Enemy)
AIs who are hated by 2 other AIs and thus it's diplomatically challenging to trade techs with them:
8. Kublai (Darius' Worst Enemy and Hatty's Worst Enemy)
9. Hatty (Kublai's Worst Enemy and Joao's Worst Enemy)
AIs who are hated by 1 other AI:
10. Darius (Saladin's Worst Enemy)
11. The Unmet AI (Mehmed's Worst Enemy)
Friendly Relationships:
1. Saladin is Friendly toward Mehmed (primarily due to Shared State Religion)
Galley 5 sees that picking up the Hamburg Catapult will only delay its advance, so it instead sails westward to help with picking up Cologne's Catapult
As suggested by CP, Galley 1 moves into position to ferry HA 10 from where it razed Vlad into St. Pete's--we can still arrive in our Galley chain to help out with chaining Cologne's Cat
Wounded Units in Moscow move to 1 N of Yar
Kublai takes a Cease Fire with Stalin in exchange for Philosophy and then he winks at us
Stalin will not give us either of his Cities for Peace (don't say that I didn't try), so we accept his World Map in compensation instead
We now see that Kublai is to the east of Russia and Mao is to the south-east of Kublai
I don't see an "Orient" sign yet, but I do see a "Bridge to Far East" sign and a "The Far East" sign.
We also see that there's a path through Darius' lands such that Russia doesn't need to be attacked if a team doesn't mind fighting through 3 of Darius' Cities and keeping one total junkpile of a City. For us, we can just capture 2 Russian Cities for the equivalent.
On that note, we have enough EPs to get City Visibility of all of Stalin's Cities next turn.
T118, 75 AD
Educated ladies and gentlemen flock to our lands as we prepare to build institutions of higher learning
Hatty has a War Chariot that has moved to the west of Istanbul, while Mehmed's Horse Archer has also moved to the west of Istanbul; his Horse Archer is Combat II, so I'm not sure how we'll best deal with it
Hamburg steals the second Sheep from Frederick and starts to build another Catapult
London steals the Horse and Stone Resources and starts building a University
Ruby Bay switches the GH For to the G Riv Farm
If Athens doesn't need to build its University, we may want to build a Forge and then a Market after our Library, to partner up with the 2 settled Great Prophets there
Kublai has switched into Pacifism
Churchill is willing to negotiate with us
Novgorod (the City to the east of Moscow) has 2 Iron Resources in its big fat cross. It is defended by a Combat II Spearman, a Combat II Swordsman, and a City Garrison I Archer and has City Walls for 50% Cultural Defences. The City is Size 7 and could pump out Military Units quite quickly.
Smolensk, to the north-east of Novgorod, is defended by 2 Swords and 1 Spear
Stalin appears to have 1 Worker remaining who looks like he will start improving either the Horse or Cows by Moscow (sure, go ahead, work on our behalf, we don't mind!
)Darius seems to be sending a bit of an army through Stalin's lands in the direction of Churchill's capital. Could Churchill be Darius' war target?
I can't say that I like seeing all of Darius' Units near our ex-Russian holdings, with him being within striking distance of both Yar and Moscow next turn and him already having a fist of war.
The prudent thing to do seems to be to sell him Aesthetics for 40 Gold and then Request/Demand 10 Gold from him. The risk with this approach is that if he trades Marble to another AI, we won't be able to declare war on Darius for 10 turns from now.
I'll make this trade:
40 Gold from Darius <-> Aesthetics
to see if doing so bring him up to Pleased with us.
Darius threw in his World Map and gives us +4 Fair and Forthright Trading, but is still Cautious toward us; at least he'll have a lower chance of declaring war at Cautious.
With his forces nearby consisting of 3 Spearmen, 1 Axeman, and an Immortal, I'll send our Axemen from St. Pete's toward Moscow along the Roads as a precaution, still arriving in the south at the same time thanks to our Workers completing the Roads this turn, but allowing us to recover from Darius backstabbing us without us having to Demand his 10 Gold
Saladin gave us -2 for Trading with his Worst Enemy (Darius) but is still at Cautious toward us and I'm hopeful that one of those negative Diplo points will wear off soon enough
We see that the last AI is India, located to the south-east of Darius' lands
It looks as though an alternate path to China is through Darius and then India, followed by taking additional Chinese Cities. I imagine that we'll go through Kublai, though, so that we don't have to deal with other AIs' City Culture consuming the Cities that we capture
Also, India has access to Ivory
Paris 1-pop-whips its Market to help with accumulating Gold
Orleans 2-pop-whips its Catapult
Our Workers complete 3 segments of Road, completing the connection between Transylvania and the Black Sea (the body of water to the north-east of Istanbul)
003 and Spy 11 arrive inside of Jackpot
We have plenty of Happiness in Paris, but it seems prudent to keep our 2 Chariots there, as they can quickly become Military Police Units in other Cities (such as Lyons) or can help us to deal with recapturing Cities from Hatty later
Hatty has an Archer roaming around Germany
It looks as though Thebes has fired its Specialists in order to work Hammer-based squares--that's good, as it means it will complete The Shwedagon Paya (too bad it wasn't MoM) in 6 turns' time and thus the City is very unlikely to generate a Great Engineer before we're ready to capture the City (i.e. Hatty won't be able to build The Taj Mahal before we can build it)
A wounded Zhuge and a wounded HA 11 (the two most wounded Units out of the 4 Units that were in Moscow) board Galley 7, while the other two wounded Units board Galley 6. It is interesting to note that our first major use of our southern navy to shuttle troops has been in the Black Sea
I look for opportunities for our Units to still arrive on the Galleys at the same turn as they would have arrived on the Galleys had they moved their full movement points this turn, while also not using all of their movement points this turn so that they can guard our Cities and our Worker in case Darius attacks us. I.e. An Axeman that could have moved to 1 SW of Yar won't be able to get on a Galley on the Fish at 1 NE + 2 N of Istanbul any faster than if the Axeman were to stop in Yar this turn, so the Axeman stops in Yar this turn. Similarly, 2 Chariots would not be able to arrive on that Fish before T120, so they help to guard Moscow, while still being able to arrive on that Fish on T120. Opportunities to micro always exist if you look for them.
Frederick has learned Calendar, but no other AI picked up a tech, so he either used Gold to buy it or self-teched it himself
Frederick wants Sheep now (we took it from him culturally)
We have restored our Trade Network with Kublai without having lost our 4 Gold per Turn <-> Fish trade
Saladin has hooked up a second source of Incense
I'm not sure that we're really going to be able to block a lot of Resources that could get traded to Darius, so we can either hope that:
i. Darius declares war on us and we capture/raze his City to the south of Mehmed's City of Edirne, so that Mehmed can trade us Marble
ii. Darius simply doesn't trade away Marble on the first turn of getting it
Jackpot steals a Cottage from Paris, allowing Paris to work an unworked Cottage
Joao has sent out a Galley and it is currently located 1 NE of Spice Girls Island
I'm not sure what it will be best to build in Gold Coast and Ivory Coast after we build our Granaries in those Cities, but I imagine that Horse Archers will be good choices, to help with the conquest of Hatty's Cities
Hatty has a Settler Party at 1 SE + 1 E of Memphis consisting of a Settler and a War Chariot
Joao has a fist icon that he didn't have last turn, so he may be plotting a war against one of Hatty, Darius, Stalin, or India. He won't declare war at Pleased, so he isn't targeting us
T119, 100 AD
Darius demands that we convert to Taoism. I refuse, as per the Diplo Policy, but I am concerned. I'm not sure which would be worse: him declaring war on us or him trading away Marble after we've Demanded 10 turns of Peace
He does need to be Cautious toward us to be willing to trade us a Strategic Resource, though, so I'm a bit hesitant, especially after just having taken a -1 Diplo hit for refusing his Demand
As per our Diplo Policy, we vote No to Stop Trading with Frederick when the AP Vote comes up
We can't build a Missionary in Orleans since we have 3 being built or already built; I had to remove the Missionary from the London build queue
Since London comes before Jackpot in the order of Cities, we won't lose our Hammers in the London Missionary as long as we use 1 Missionary next turn, which we will do (we'll try to spread Christianity in Ruby Bay, and if it fails, Oxford will get delayed)
Orleans can complete its Christian Missionary and also grow to Size 4 this turn
St. Pete's switches to building a Library
Argent's Forge gets 2-pop-whipped
Both Hamburg and Cologne 2-pop-whip their Cats; Cologne steals the Fish from Hamburg since Hamburg has 2 Sheep to work
Ivory Coast whips its Work Boat, allowing there to be enough Hammers to be able to 1-pop-whip its Granary
Jackpot 1-pop-whips its Christian Missionary and Paris steals back its G Riv Cottage
We will put 74 H into Paris' University, which is about what we wanted to do, with 79 H being the maximum that we could have put into it
As long as we can spread Christianity in Ruby Bay, a quickly 1-turn-built Oxford looks to be on track; failing that, we'd still have a chance of recovering with probably only a 1-turn delay with 2 backup Christian Missionaries being built next turn
Munich's Cultural Borders currently control some Forest Chops that we'd want to go to St. Pete's for The Taj Mahal; presumably, we'd get control of those Forests and Chop them before capturing Munich
Stalin is Roading Moscow's Horse
Joao has learned Feudalism, which aligns with him feeling war-like
Mehmed's has a Horse Archer at 1 SW + 1 S of Edirne, while he has another Horse Archer at 2 NW of Istanbul, with both of them being Combat II; instead of a Catapult, Rostov will whip a War Elephant
A Christian Missionary arrives in Ruby Bay and will attempt to spread next turn
Meanwhile, Galley 2 positions itself at 1 NW + 2 N of Paris where it can pick up both the Orleans Missionary and the Jackpot Missionary next turn, then be able to unload both of them in York on T121 for 2 additional chances to spread Christianity in Ruby Bay. We aren't going to leave the University plan down to luck after all, yay!
Joao's Galley has moved 1 square further west while Frederick's Galley has headed toward Joao; Joao is already Pleased toward Frederick and they have Open Borders with each other
Yuck, Frederick has learned Monarchy
Saladin learned Monotheism
Mao learned Monotheism
Hatty is receiving Ivory in trade, presumably from India. She no longer wants Ivory and I can't see Ivory in her Cultural Borders anywhere
T120, 125 AD
Our 10 turns of enforced Peace with Hatty have worn off
We are not forced to stop trading with Frederick:
We vote No for 6 votes
Hatty votes No for 60 votes
Mehmed votes Yes for 30 votes
Saladin votes Yes for 52 votes
82 votes said Yes, while 91/148 were required for the Resolution to pass
Christianity has spread successfully in Ruby Bay!!!
Mehmed's Horse Archer is now 3 S of Rostov. As much as I'd like to hold onto the population points for a Forge, I think that we may have to 2-pop-whip a War Elephant there just to keep tabs on Mehmed's Horse Archer
Our 5 Galleys receive 4 XP each and the Great General gets renamed to Leif Erikson for good luck.
I gave that Galley Morale for +1 movement and Combat I, just to deter AI Galleys from thinking that our stack of Galleys is weak and vulnerable. Now our Galleys are so speedy that the microing of troop transfers should become a lot easier.We've already got 9 Units on Mehmed's side of the Black Sea
Paris will put 18 Hammers into a Christian Temple (just shy of 20 Hammers, which would be too many Hammers), so that we can 2-pop-whip it on T122, then 3-pop-whip the University on T123, then if all goes well, overflow into building Oxford on T124.
XO Cognac 2-pop-whips its Forge
Orleans could start on another Catapult, but I'm wondering if maybe it's time to build a Forge there
It's important to note that Orleans and Cologne can share G Riv Farms with each other when one of them whips away the citizens working those Farms
Eventually, these Cities might want Courthouses, and they may just end up Drafting more than they slow-build Units, so I'm not sure that we need Forges, but Orleans has several GH squares, so it could probably do with a Forge. Hamburg has a lot of Food and can whip (or Draft) a lot, and a Forge could offer +3 Happiness to help with Drafting, so it's probably worth it to get a Forge in Hamburg
I suppose that for now, Orleans can aim to get 2 more Christian Missionaries, one for each of Cologne and Hamburg, and then they can potentially begin building infrastructure, as newly-built Catapults won't reach the front lines for a while
Argent is building a Library
The Cultural Borders near the Marbles is weird... Darius had a Silver Resource and started to improve it, but now Mehmed controls it and it was Mehmed's Worker who finished improving it
Joao has started researching Machinery and is estimated to learn it in 15 turns' time... that timing may be too late to help us, but at least he has the right idea
Now that we have Christianity in Ruby Bay, we Chop a Forest into Ruby Bay
St. Pete's 3-pop-whips its Forge
Jackpot starts on a Spy to be whipped
Athens will not whip its Library and will just go back to building a Forge for now, since we're still at a 0% Science Rate
It's possible that with these speedier boats, we might be ready to declare war on Mehmed next turn, or if not, then for sure on T122. I'll have to take a closer look
If we spread Christianity into Cologne this turn, we can 1-pop-whip a Missionary there next turn.
If the Missionary goes straight to Rostov, it can spread on T123. If a Cologne-whipped Missionary spreads in Rostov, it can spread on T124. I think that this delay works well in order to better spread Christianity
Hatty is 6 turns away from learning Nationalism! She is 4 turns away from building The Swedagon Paya
With our speedier Galleys, Catapults from Hamburg can get to the front lines slightly faster via St. Pete's (by 1 turn) if the Catapults load at 3 S of Yar, otherwise they arrive at the same time, so I sent the Hamburg-built Cat alongside of the Cologne-built Cat on the Galley chain
Okay, it looks like T122 declaring on Mehmed will work better, since his southern Horse Archer is now guarding his Worker on the square near the Silver that Darius and Mehmed have been Culturally-swapping, so it would be nice to have our War Elephant be in position to take out that Horse Archer, scoring us a Unit that would otherwise be tough to kill and a free Worker to go along with it
Also, our Units need to heal in Instanbul and then move on T121 in order to get into proper position for attacking
Yes, T122 is the turn to attack Mehmed. I'm trying to work out which Units will be where...
A War Elephant to take on Mehmed's Horse Archer and Worker
Mounted troops to arrive at the gates of Edirne
Other troops to unload from Galleys at Istanbul
Possibly dropping off troops at Edirine, but I don't think that we'll have enough troops to drop off Units at both Cities at once
We might not be able to take both Cities at once, but at least we can drop off a Catapult near Istanbul
Hatty has hired 2 Artist Specialists in Macau, which will help when it comes to an Espionage Cultural Victory, since the more total Culture that exists in the City, the more Culture that each of our Spies will be able to spread with a Spread Culture Espionage Mission
Our Woody III healer arrives in Istanbul just in time to help with healing our wounded mounted troops in Istanbul
We finally connect a Cow Resource but hardly any AI wants one--Mehmed is one AI who will take one, though, so we can use Cow to get Marble if Darius declares war on us next turn (T121). Otherwise, we'll be declaring war on Mehmed on T122 and we'll just have to hope that Darius doesn't declare war on us. I'll be Chopping an Archer in Moscow so that we at least won't have to worry too much, and have kept an Axeman in Moscow who can't make it to the Galleys in time for a T122 landing
Kublai has learned Priesthood (but still doesn't yet know Monarchy)
We gift Fish to Stalin because he's no one's Worst Enemy and we literally have 14 of them sitting around stinking up our harbours...
T121, 150 AD
Kublai expanded to a new City for a second time this turnset
Darius just keeps wandering around Russian territory with his Units
Fortunately, Darius can only be bribed into a war if he is Friendly toward the player who wants to bribe him and is Annoyed or lower toward the player upon whom he would be bribed, neither condition being the case here
Unfortunately, Darius has just started getting Stone from Hatty for his Corn, so he may be encouraged to build City Walls soon; hopefully, we won't have to fight him
XO Cognac 1-pop-whips its Library and steals Paris' Copper just to be safe, since Paris doesn't need the Copper at the moment
Orleans 2-pop-whips another Missionary
Argent 2-pop-whips its Library
Cologne 1-pop-whips its Missionary
Ruby Bay 1-pop-whips its Library
Ivory Coast 1-pop-whips its Granary
St. Pete's 2-pop-whips its Library, allowing Moscow to steal the Wheat for a turn
Aberdeen will complete its Granary this turn
Yay, finally a quiet turn where no AIs learned any new techs
Frederick connected-up Frankfurt's Deer, meaning that he has a Road to there
Mao suddenly wants Fish; maybe he'd been getting it from Hatty, as now she hates him as her Worst Enemy for having traded with her previous Worst Enemy (Kublai)
We might as well sell Fish to Mao, since we'll be declaring war on Hatty within 10 turns
We take our Clam back from Mao and give him Fish for his Sugar instead, then trade Clam to Darius for 2 GPT, so that Darius won't trade Marble to Saladin for Clam
We can trade Fur and our only Deer to Darius for Marble, with the thinking that we can always Road another Deer later and we have lots of extra Health right now
We have 10 Units on Galleys, 1 War Elephant on the other side that may be 1 turn too late to capture Mehmed's Horse Archer and Worker (oh well), and 5 HAs and 8 Chariots on the other side. Mehmed is doomed. Let's just hope that Darius doesn't declare war on us opportunistically while our whole army is away from Russia.
Churchill is about to learn Metal Casting (1 turn away), so we Cease Fire and gift it to him, to increase his WFYABTA counter amongst the other AIs. Only Frederick likes him, so it's not like we'll anger a lot of people by redeclaring war on Churchill later
T122, 175 AD
Hatty founds a new City
Paris 2-pop-whips its Temple; next turn, it will 3-pop-whip its University and then all of those Hammers will overflow into Oxford University, assuming that all of the Universities get whipped next turn
XO Cognac starts on a University; we need 65 final Hammers for it to be 3-pop-whippable and we'll make 91 final Hammers, so we're good there
Lyons can whip its Forge once we spread Christianity there, then whip its Courthouse as one of our 6 Courthouses for The Forbidden Palace
London has 48 Hammers and can only make 12 Hammers, but it needs 88 final Hammers; the Fur thus gets Chopped--we make 1 less Hammer per turn, and earn 1 more Commerce per turn--we won't get 2 Hammers from that square during a Golden Age, but sacrifices sometimes have to be made for the greater good; 48 + 48 H will give us 96 H, which is more than the 88 H needed
Argent will actually put 103 H into a University and NOT Chop the other Forest this turn (we can just have Worker 3 build a Road and STOP on the TunFor at 1 W of Argent) so that the University is 3-pop-whippable, giving us a lot of overflow Hammers to go into Moai Statues, and then we can save that final Chop to also go into Moai--we can Chop it next turn when we whip the University (i.e. on T123) and the Hammers will overflow into Moai, giving us a quickly-built Moai
Hamburg just got Rostov's Missionary so that Orleans can build another Missionary with overflow Hammers for Lyons; that leaves Christian Missionary 10 spreading inside of Rostov on T125
Hamburg can build a Forge with some overflow Hammers and the benefit of Christianity, then once it grows to Size 6, it can 3-pop-whip the Forge, then 1-pop-whip its Lighthouse
Cologne should make enough overflow Hammers to be able to 1-pop-whip its Courthouse next turn, giving us our 6th Courthouse
The Chop at Ruby Bay will give us 81 Hammers going into the University. Uh oh. There must have been a flaw in the calculations somewhere, as we need 88 Hammers. That's unfortunate, but we'll get another 7 Hammers next turn, so hopefully the number 88 is accurate for a 3-pop-whipping action (I calculated the numbers by hand). I'll work a GH Riv square for an 8th Hammer this turn. So, that's disappointing, but it means delaying Oxford by 1 turn.
So, Paris, after it whips its Temple and whips its University, can build Wealth on T124 for 1 turn, to store the Hammers meant for overflowing into Oxford University
We were close, but not close enough... still, off by 1 turn of our target date is still fine, as we can just accumulate a bit more Gold before switching to a 100% Research Rate
Great news at Mehmed... the Worker and Horse Archer are still there, now building a Farm over top of the Cottage that just got built?!?!?!?! Really? Whatever. When we declare war, our War Elephant should teleport 2 S to the PH Jungle and then can attack the Horse Archer and kill the Worker
St. Pete's will put 130 H into its University. It needs 110 H for it to be 2-pop-whippable, so we can whip it.
Of course, we might as well just whip all of the Universities on the same turn as each other, i.e. Turn 124, and if we do that, Paris just builds Wealth on T123 to save up the overflow Hammers
Aberdeen, having just completed its Granary, can now work both Fish Resources, since our Cultural Borders just expanded over top of both of them
We have a Forest Chop available at 1 W of Moscow; since Darius didn't attack us, we could put it into a Granary, if we wanted, then 1-pop-whip the Granary, then once we have our Granary, steal the Wheat from St. Pete's
Mehmed has annoyingly moved his Horse Archer just out of reach of our War Elephant, so we'll probably have to be very careful... HA 10 in Moscow will probably have to move to defend Worker 11 at 1 SW + 1 S of St. Pete's after we declare war.
Another option could be to play "teleportation stuffing," where we take the 2 Cats at 1 W of Moscow and "stuff" one of them to 3 S of St. Pete's so that when we declare war on Mehmed, Mehmed's Horse Archer cannot teleport to that square and thus is likely to teleport to the G Riv For at 1 SW + 1 W of Moscow, where our Axeman 6 or our HA 10 can attack it (Axeman 6 would get a bonus to attacking the Horse Archer when the Horse Archer is in a Forest)
Unfortunately, Mao has learned Feudalism, independently of Joao, as they haven't met each other
It's time to declare war on Mehmed (first move a Catapult to block the Horse Archer from teleporting to an undesirable spot to the south of St. Pete's). Who wants to take it from here?
Saved game from Central
That is probably the sign BSP mentioned in a post several weeks ago. I think Far East = Orient.
We need to "protect" the railroad so it might be the way which lets us have continuous territory.
Marble is located 1 S of Edrne. Should we spread Christianity there to get a quicker border pop? To bad we cannot run a spread culture mission.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
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The current plan is to let Darius' Culture consume both Resources, then get one of them in trade from Darius. Darius will have a one-turn window where he can trade away that Resource to another AI, and if he does that, our only option will be to declare war on Darius and forcibly take Marble from Darius.
Note that Marble is both 1 S and 2 S of Edirne, so whichever AI City gets captured first, the other AI's City will quickly take Cultural control of the other Marble. For us to own Marble, we'd either have to get one source in trade from one of the AIs or we'd have to conquer both AIs' Cities there.
Darius has 1 Axeman, 3 Spearmen, and 1 Immortal that are wandering around Moscow and Yar--they may just feel that they are trapped by our Culture since we don't have Open Borders with him, but he's been plotting a war for a while now, so I don't trust him.
There's a small chance that he's at war with India, but if he was, why would his forces be sent in the opposite direction?
Darius doesn't have Open Borders with Mehmed, so Darius might just be stuck trying to explore into an area that he cannot see--he probably hadn't revealed the Moscow area previously, but he might declare war on us--if he declares war on us before we declare war on Mehmed, then we'll just do the reverse of the plan and capture the City to the south of Mehmed's Edirne, then get Marble in trade form Mehmed and possibly leave Mehmed alone for a while or else possibly just Chop out MoM and then go to war with Mehmed (this second option sounds better).
One area that we've failed on is completing the Chopping of our Forbidden Palace. Hopefully, Christianity will spread in Ruby Bay (we'll know shortly), in which case the Orleans Missionary can head toward Rostov so that we can begin work on Chopping out The Forbidden Palace in Rostov.
I think our next tech after Education should be Machinery since it is a perquisite for some of the techs we could potentially choose if we are the first to learn Liberalism.
Is the London missionary for Aberdeen?
Is the London missionary for Aberdeen?
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
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Right now, it's for nowhere, as we cannot spare the Hammers to complete it just yet.
Yes, we'll need to tech it soon. Joao actually will get it in 11 turns, if he sticks at his current tech pace, while Hatty is back to 6 turns on Nationalism.
Don't you want Gunpowder for Drafted Musketeers first, though?
Okay I got it. Will play soon.
Question: To Block Mehmed's Horse archer I need to move this turn and next turn, and then declare war. Is that correct?
PPP is as posted in end of post 1095.
Question: To Block Mehmed's Horse archer I need to move this turn and next turn, and then declare war. Is that correct?
PPP is as posted in end of post 1095.
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