[BTS] SGOTM 24 Dancing Bears

[Gumbolt]

We risked all of that to find out we made a mistake on civics? Ho hum! We all forgot about the 1 turn anarchy. Let's hope that Indians don't change their civics now. Maybe we will get lucky with a forest growth.

I can try and do final turns here.

 

[haphazard1]

I am around. Would be good to see this one wrapped up. Hopefully without any more surprises, or barbs interfering, or AIs doing crazy things....

 

[Gumbolt]

Well key things to do for next turn?
Delete units?
Micro city to avoid shrinking.
Leaver workers in place in main hub in case we get a forest growth.
We also need to show how many FP we have by way of pictures. Mylene is pretty good at these.

We can start running some artists now I guess. Beyond drama we have no need for science.

Any thoughts on game micro Haps??

 

[Fippy]

Oh we can switch into Enviro this turn, and also swap Asoka.
Bismarck next one, this way we have no risk on Asoka changing a civic now.
I doubt we should hope for a forest here rather than playing safe.

Timer would start next turn (all AIs have to run Enviro for 3t).
But we are not forced to wait with us & Asoka.

Hiya Haph, i will be afk again for a bit (supermarket)

 

[haphazard1]

Hmmm, we already have Drama. So do we need any science at this point?

We do need to make sure we have enough population, so avoiding shrinking of our cities would be good. Have to keep enough cash flow to avoid complete collapse of our economy as well. But those can wait until we complete the anarchy for the switch to environmentalism.

Hi Mylene!

Edit 1: So micro suggestions for after we come out of anarchy:

South Sea - 1 scientist to a coast tile (breakeven food), rest to merchants
Clam Island - 3 scientists to coast tiles for positive +1 food, rest to merchants
Bacon - 1 scientist to a lake tile (breakeven food), rest to merchants
Long Island - hmmm, lack of a unit here is costing us two unhappy faces. Could get a growth or even two here if they were available to work tiles. Change merchant to work a coast tile for growth.
Cow Town - one merchant to work cows (breakeven food)
Dye City - 1 scientist to work corn (positive food), rest to merchants
Persepolis - spy to merchant

That is enough to get us to positive gold at 0% science. So rest of cities can be looked at for max growth for the population threshold.

Edit 2: More micro thoughts:

Tarsus - 1 merchant to farmed grass (positive food)
Delhi - 4 scientists to lake tiles (enough food to grow in 4 turns, so in time to count); other scientist to merchant
Satsuma - copper mine to farm (with hammer); change production from culture to wealth; city has 149 culture so not going to pop borders further
Osaka - spy to coast tile for more food, can get one or even 2 growths here in time
Yakutsk - 2 merchants to coast tiles, can get a growth here in 5 turns
St Petersberg - 1 merchant to coast tile (breakeven food)

After next turn, Madurai could change artist to merchant as it will have border pop.

Edit 3: Hmmm, reconsidering at Satsuma. City will not pop borders again, but Asoka's culture is in mid-40s percent on two tiles west of city. So maybe keep it on culture rather than changing to wealth; we can spare the 6 gold/turn to help make sure those tiles do not flip.

Edit 4: 9 turns to next AP vote, so that should not cause any problems. Trying to think of anything else that could suddenly happen.

 

[Gumbolt]

Erm no the Ai have to be switch same turn?

If you are not using the UN to convince the AI to run enviromentalist we might ask you to post proof (screenshots, saves etc) that everyone is forced to do so for all turns and does not change back to another civic.

Are we sure on that timer??

Yep Ai have to be running civic the full 100 turns. Less turns from FP. So that includes T0?

'Ummm... so the turn you change to Environmentalism is what starts the countdown, right? I mean, at that turn, your number of forest preserves is counted, and no further preserves you might make later will reduce the number of turns you (and the AI) need to run Enviro, Did I understand correctly?' Alan replied. That is correct.

So turn we switch civics is when the counter starts. We can't switch civics this turn.

Unless a forest grows on a road here it won't help us anyway.

 

[Fippy]

Yep we can, if we are unclear on that we have to ask.

Why should it matter when Bismarck or Asoka use Enviro, they both need 3 total turns before a game can be won.

Counter for forest preserves = how many turns each AI has to use Enviro afterwards

Otherwise all teams who fail one switch (via espionage for example, or by overlooking that 1 AI cannot switch this turn) would be disqualified. That would be nonsense.

 

[Gumbolt]

Read the pre game discussion. Clearly says counter starts when we change civics.

Yes so we switch to environmentalism now. Convert both Ai.
End turn for 1st turn
End turn for 2nd turn
end turn for 3rd turn. We win game.

Okay we need to clarify rule here.

The counter starts when we switch to environmentalism. There is no waiting for the Ai to switch.

Well not all teams will force the Ai to change civics like us. No one forced us to do that. Your basing the rules on our actions.

In any case let's ask. See what AlanH and Zary say to my thread. I added you Fippy.

 

[haphazard1]

We could ask for clarification if necessary? But I would think the counter would start once we have ourselves and all remaining AIs running environmentalism. So if we switch one early, the counter just does not start until the other is also switched. As long as that will not give the first one any chance of switching again before our counter runs out (adjusted for FPs), I think we would be OK.

Edit 1: Getting clarification would be safest, certainly.

I think it would make sense that the counter would begin once all the conditions were met: us and all remaining AIs in environmentalism. Nothing states that all the civs must switch on the same turn. Just that we can not switch back once we change into env, and the others must run it for the calculated length of time.

But asking would be safest.

Edit 2: We also need to prepare screenshots for the forest preserves. How best to do this? Add signs to all FP tiles? Could be rather cluttered. Maybe there is a better way?

 

[Gumbolt]

I was happy to lose game attacking Japan but not over something like this.

Okay we could edit up cities while we wait or pause till we get a reply?

You missed the Moscow battle from last game? Also that game previously with the ladies. Took a warrior to take city. We have had some epic battles.

 

[Fippy]

..and i am happy we attacked cos that will be the most exciting battle to remember for me in Civ, ever
Also if i am right on rules, we at least gained safety for Asoka. Nopes we would not have attacked, but it was not 100% for nothing.

I will try myself on screenies..

Homeland is easy, for 2 areas outside we still have to delete workers standing on one (or they block view), and also finish another at Toku city.

For cities, some should run culture cos we have waiting time anyways.
Satsuma, Nagoya & Osaka against Asoka.
Also Madurai in case his holy city gets 5000.

No need for if's on culture, border cities should run max culture cos yup a bomb could happen..
also Asoka has Sistine. Why risk anything there, we can easily afford putting them on max culture.

 

[haphazard1]

The attack on Japan was a big gamble. Glad it worked. Certainly was very exciting.

Edit 1: Nice screenshot for the homeland of the trees. 47 of them, I think we did pretty well here. Could have used a couple of forest growths, but the RNG did not cooperate.

Edit 2: The gold is not as limiting as it looked at first. So we can emphasize culture in any cities that might have issues with Asoka's culture, and should still have enough gold to keep our economy solvent.

Edit 3: Culture in the border cities should be fine -- we can afford to do without the gold they would otherwise produce.

Culture bombs...we should have seen any great artists being born in the log. I don't think I have ever seen an AI hold on to an artist for a long period -- they use them somehow as soon as they have them. So unless one gets generated during these final turns, or is already moving to a border city (in which case we should be able to see the announcement of its birth in the log), we should be OK.

Edit 4: Last great artist in the log was Dante, generated by Bismarck in 125 AD. So a long time ago. Bismarck did not culture bomb with it, might have settled it? Anyway, Bismarck is not really a big threat to our borders.

 

[Gumbolt]

Might as well get some chores done here.

Highest culture Ai city is German's with 3371 culture. So 5k will never happen. Unless they did a culture bomb?

 

[Fippy]

Let me edit this turn, prepare worker screenies outside homeland & adjust cities.
Then you can take over for the remaining turns.
(need confirmation thou that nobody moved stuff yet)

Okay, some cities will gain happy next turn Haph
Toku war unhappy just did not fade yet.

Moving some of our surviving Toku units towards Nagoya, against possible revolt.
Galleon chain from Kazhak towards dyecity should be kept, in case barbs move.

Question, should we settle the 3 forest island cities?
Costs ofc, but maybe better if barbs are close?

Not sure, just against something silly happening i guess Haph.
Yup Gumbo, i did put culture in all border cities..tiles are the priority now.
We still have so many cities on growth, population should not be an issue.

 

[Gumbolt]

Not moved a thing,

 

[haphazard1]

Have not moved anything.

Edit 1: Helpful that war weainess will vanish. Most cities were OK, but there were a few unhappy citizens in our empire.

Edit 2: Hmmm, Ants could be fighting hard, losing a lot of units in assaults on cities?

Edit 3: Is this a worry about barb units, or barb culture? I do not see any problem with settling them now. It will cost us some gold, but we should be able to manage that.

 

[Gumbolt]

Turbo ants are nearly done. Their power has just drop hugely suggesting they are deleting units?

Will be back once we have an answer. Will keep checking.

Land wise I count circa 648. We will need all land here. We can't win without the forest islands.

If you mean delay them for 2-3 turns maybe. Only city at risk is the archer defended forest isalnd. I don't think. More likely barbs will spawn with no border pop. Again the island are so small I think only barb cities can spawn. Also consider max number of barb units on map.

 

[Fippy]

I settled the ones with archer & x-bow so they can get defense, can decide on Jumbo later.
Uploading..done

Added screenies for outside FPs, now it's waiting time i guess.

Yup see you guys later

 

[Gumbolt]

Maybe we should pause for today? Unless we think AlanH or Zhary will be online any time soon?

We do need to show where the other 15 preserves are.

 

[haphazard1]

More good screenshots, Mylene. Nice work.

16 additional preserves outside our core, 47 inside, so we should be set for a 3 turn countdown.

Probably a good point to pause. No idea when we might hear back from AlanH or Zhary.