[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Unusual Suspects

[SittinDown]

What is the value in trading for monarchy if we have the mids? (Besides improving the wine?)

Ideally, Aesthetics is worth some bait. I'm good for redirecting to Alpha either way.

 

[kcd_swede]

Alphabet is needed to clear bulb path. I think it also nets us (and opens up) some good trade value if we get it before the AI. As an added bonus, it allows us to benchmark the AI teching progress. If there is a strong argument for something else, I'm open to hear it... I can't think of anything that gives more immediate utility, though.

Agree that Monarchy is not a priority tech for us. Its one tech that all AI will trade, so we can probably get it if/when we want it, after alphabet. Calendar and currency would be better to score in a trade, but I thought monarchy only because we know its out there.

As for tech trading, we are still open to UN/AP (or wait, with pyramids, UN is probably out, right? have we made a decision on military victory?) so we need to watch worst enemy lists, and prioritize friendlies. Also, we'd have to have a plan for AI demands... Sitting Bull tends to make a lot of them, and if he is a friend target (or if we are far below him in power) it would be wise to give in to reasonable demands. With eventual close borders, though, we should be looking at eventually wiping him out - on our own timetable, not his. Refused demands at this point will have time to fade before voting, in any case.

 

[SittinDown]

Ok - sounds like we're all good on Alphabet.

 

[SittinDown]

(or wait, with pyramids, UN is probably out, right?

No. Pyramids is Engineer. UN is merchant. [See page 1 of this thread for a reference].


Good news is SB does not have metals, horses, or ivory (yet).

 

[kcd_swede]

Ok - sounds like we're all good on Alphabet.

Next issue: Am I the only one getting nervous about delaying settling? Probably. I tend to over worry about inaction.

What else do we want in a PPP? Are there any critical chops/whips coming up? Are there any improvements to prioritize, or just roads left? Is it mostly infrastructure we build now, or units too? I would suggest renaming cities when a limiting thing, like pyramids or national epic is built. Are we agreed on the GSci usage (Academy? Where?) What to do with Esåionage points? (Alpha opens spies... we planning to steal something from SB?) Anything else?

 

[SittinDown]

Am I the only one getting nervous about delaying settling?

It's not just you. You're right. I see a few options:

• Good close land north of Bib. If I recall, it's 5 specials, 2 are food.
  
• Iron / Copper / Crab island. Bad land, but opens up conquest. Swords + Cats should be very effective vs archers.
  
• HA's vs archers are effective, but we probably would have needed to commit to that much earlier.
  
• Ivory / sheep / gold island - elephants are still effective against longbows. Land is better. But no metals.
• Stone / Marble / food island - Just seems like map-maker bait.
  
• South of SB - there is a lot of seafood and some potentially good land. There's an island with an ice block - settling there *might* let us explore the rest of the map without Astro.
  
• West of Peter - there is a lot of seafood, and a border pop there might let us defer Astro.

Are we agreed on the GSci usage (Academy? Where?)

We didn't really discuss it much - but my vote would be to combo that with the GLib city to stack benefits of scientists. And I'd vote Gerg for that, because it's ready to max-OF whip into GLH right now, and is mature enough to build a wonder. Cam is an okay choice too. I was slow to move the scientist that way, and we don't have an available galley right now, so it'll be about 14 turns until it arrives?

Cities:

• Bib - just OF whipped Dun for mids. Should just grow back up and build mids. Probably mine that PH for extra hammers. rename to Engineer when mids is done.
  
• Cam - Should try to 6-3 whip the library and use any overflow to finish the lighthouse. Then warrior garrison. That city will grow to happy cap very fast.
• Vienne - National Epic? - this build is a placeholder. I'm not sure what to build here, but this city should just relax and work its tiles and put into fail gold, I think. At the least NE fail gold is okay.
  
• Tolosa - Nice hammers. Good military potential. Build another galley, take a chariot to more deeply explore the south again Put fail hammers into GLB any time Gerg isn't.
  
• Gerg - Whip it now, and put OF into GLB. Chop GLB.

Where / when do we want NE?

Spies:

• Steal seems good. It's going to be a challenge - SB has had a castle from turn one. We've been putting all points on Peter since we met him.

 

[SittinDown]

some extra ....quick thoughts

• the great Artist city has an easy job, I think, and might be a good spot for a junk city that grabs important resources.
• US - that's an out-of-the-box suggestion. I'm not sure how we'd get enough gold to make it worth it - hurry costs are high. I would think we'd want REP most of the time, and maybe a 5-turn binge in US possibly, and then back to REP? Maybe during a golden age and after a Great Merchant (but we want a GM for sushi probably).

 

[Deckhand]

well, sorry I didn't have more time for this in July.
I need to start reading at post 170 on page 19.

Plan is to
- finish botm195
- get caught up on what is happening here
- and start participating in August

 

[SittinDown]

I'm away for the next week! Good luck while I'm gone!
If you're waiting for a PPP from me, please move forward without me.

 

[SittinDown]

I need to start reading at post 170 on page 19.

You can probably pick it up on page 24. I included screen shots of all the cities, and some diplo overview. Most of the discussion between there was just city micro or deciding tech paths.

 

[kcd_swede]

Are we waiting for SD to return? So far PPP is

Tech to alphabet,
Cities:

• Bib - just OF whipped Dun for mids. Should just grow back up and build mids. Probably mine that PH for extra hammers. rename to Engineer when mids is done.
  
• Cam - Should try to 6-3 whip the library and use any overflow to finish the lighthouse. Then warrior garrison. That city will grow to happy cap very fast.
• Vienne - National Epic? - this build is a placeholder. I'm not sure what to build here, but this city should just relax and work its tiles and put into fail gold, I think. At the least NE fail gold is okay.
  
• Tolosa - Nice hammers. Good military potential. Build another galley, take a chariot to more deeply explore the south again Put fail hammers into GLB any time Gerg isn't.
  
• Gerg - Whip it now, and put OF into GLB. Chop GLB.

move gsci to Gerg for Academy to combine with GLB?

 

[Zhary]

Green if you want to play kcd.
I'm busy with our new house 24/7 so I'm not much help. Maybe check if an academy would delay optics before building it.

 

[SittinDown]

I'm back. I can play tonight if we're green on kcd's stated plan.

 

[SittinDown]

Any thoughts on Go / No go?

Seems like a green from KCD and Zhary - so I'll plan on playing tonight. though I have a work call right in the middle of my usual Civ-time, so I may have to play early tomorrow instead (12 hours)

 

[SittinDown]

OK - going to play this one in a few minutes.

 

[SittinDown]

UPDATE TO TURN 100
Turn Log:


Turn 95, 500 BC: You have constructed a Dun in Bibracte. Work has now begun on The Pyramids.

Turn 98, 425 BC: Tolosa can hurry Galley for 2⇴ with 32ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 98, 425 BC: Camulodunum has grown to size 6.
Turn 98, 425 BC: Bibracte will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 98, 425 BC: Gergovia will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 98, 425 BC: Confucianism has been founded in St. Petersburg!

Turn 99, 400 BC: Bibracte has grown to size 6.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Gergovia has grown to size 7.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Camulodunum can hurry Lighthouse for 1⇴ with 26ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Camulodunum will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 99, 400 BC: You have discovered Alphabet!
Turn 99, 400 BC: Wang Anshi (Great Merchant) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 100, 375 BC: Camulodunum has grown to size 7.
Turn 100, 375 BC: The borders of Gergovia are about to expand.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Sitting Bull will trade Archery, Priesthood
Turn 100, 375 BC: Peter will trade Archery, Monotheism, Priesthood

Spoiler Tech Trades :

Mids will be done in ~6 turns.
GLH will take a while. Got some chopping to do.

No major map developments, or anything special to report city-wise.

Building a galley in Tolosa.
Vienne is putting hammers into NE.
Cam will finish the LH soon, and whip into a library. (unless someone has a better idea?).

 

[Xcalibrator]

I'm watching, SittinDown! I care! Go you!

 

[Zhary]

Well played sd and thanks for keeping the game alive.
Poly for ph as a trade maybe.

 

[kcd_swede]

Oh.. hey, wow, I stopped getting alerts on this thread and missed that folks were back. Good job playing out the set.

If we offer Poly for PH, I want him to throw in archery to even the deal. (Well, ok, maybe we don't want archery to count as one of our WFYABTA limits, but better before we meet others than after).

Anyhow... it's been so long I'll need to look at the save before I can make any useful comments. Welcome back, everyone... we still have several weeks to get this done, but it won't happen if we take any more vacations.

 

[SittinDown]

• Does WFYABTA only count for AI's who have met each other right? should be able to trade now with SB, and cross-continental later without issues, right?
• They both have Mono & Monarchy, since they can tech Feudal. Poly isn't worth much in a trade, so grabbing Priesthood seems okay.

What tech next?

We have a lot of ground to cover, so we should probably wrap up our next PPP for 5-10 turns in the next day or so.