[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Unusual Suspects

[SittinDown]

UPDATE

• GLB is ours. Ger is now "Scientist".
• Compass is in. Machinery will be in on 1 turn. Got some triremes queued up.
• National Epic is being built now in Scientist. It has so much better hammers than Cam.
  
• Vienne finished the forge. Building wealth at the moment.
  
• Peter is going to get the Iron site. I was scouting the water, and saw his galley had no units on it, and i could see the coast, but somehow he loaded it and landed the galley under our nose. I didn't have the settler on the boat with me (it didn't get there in time), so I just have a spy there. Peter is now a threat - should trade SB for archery? Surely, Peter won't trade us for iron.

No other major events. The island to the South doesn't look very promising, and doesn't allow access to any other land, even if we settled it. Optics will be ready in about 5 turns.

I paused here just to get my bearings on the Peter-will-have-iron news.

Spoiler Iron :

there's a settler with that chariot. That's our spy there that I was going to send to peter to steal construction if possible.

 

[kcd_swede]

Hmmm... interesting. Elepults could be interesting. Let me have a think and I'll report back in the next 12hrs. Having my morning coffee and wasn't ready for this.

 

[kcd_swede]

Well. maybe Peter does us a favor by taking that crappy location. Copper location is even worse. I think we are stuck with LB's and catapults, so we probably should avoid wars until gunpowder units are available. Archery and arrow up is good to avoid opportunistic Peter backstabbing, though I'd rather steal it from SB than give him something good, unless he has more to sweeten the deal. Recall we will meet other AI very quickly now, so we should be able to get it for something cheap from someone else, I hope. But really, a spy in PovPt could steal it after 5 turns of sitting, and SB doesn't have alphabet, so the chance of losing the spy is tiny.

Probably need to wait for astro (bulb?) to settle the 7th city. Our caravels hopefully find something nice(er) in the meantime.

This doesn't change our course too much. It is in fact a good reminder that eventually every bit of land will get settled by someone sooner or later. Even the crap.

Edit: Carry on... green to Optics

 

[SittinDown]

Sounds good. Our spies are very far away from SB. I could make one in Tolosa pretty fast. It's also a 1-T tech, so we could grab it if Peter start plotting.

 

[SittinDown]

Today kicked my butt, I'm going to play tomorrow.

 

[SittinDown]

UPDATE

• Machinary and Optics are in.
• Visuals on Germany -
  Spoiler It's.... :

  Bismark
  • I did not open borders yet, and without Astro, there's not much to trade, though he does have Feudalism.
• Bad news - Triremes aren't immediately obsolete from Optics, so our hammers in our triremes aren't that helpful. Oh well, at least we can maybe use that to sink an incoming invasion.
  • Will be whipping 2 caravels next turn, one in Cam, and one in Tolosa. It's an inefficient 2-pop whip. Not terrible.
• Spy in place on Peter's new city - can steal Archer 82% chance. At the 30% in-place bonus level.
• Spy on the way to SB.
• A couple of wonders we don't care about got built. SoZ, and Colossus. In a faraway land.... I forgot to try to trade after the wonders got built. Peter got about 60 fail gold from that. We can check on it.

Other than that - not a ton to report. Forges are mostly in.

Spoiler Turn Log :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 125 AD to 250 AD:

Turn 120, 125 AD: You have discovered Machinery!

Turn 121, 150 AD: Camulodunum celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 122, 175 AD: Camulodunum celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 122, 175 AD: The Statue of Zeus has been built in a far away land!
Turn 122, 175 AD: The Colossus has been built in a far away land!

Turn 123, 200 AD: Tolosa can hurry Spy for 1⇴ with 32ℤ overflow, 1ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 21 turns.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Camulodunum can hurry Trireme for 1⇴ with 9ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 123, 200 AD: The borders of Camulodunum are about to expand.
Turn 123, 200 AD: The borders of Verlamion are about to expand.
Turn 123, 200 AD: The borders of Camulodunum have expanded!
Turn 123, 200 AD: The borders of Verlamion have expanded!

Turn 124, 225 AD: Peter has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Tolosa will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 124, 225 AD: You have discovered Optics!
Turn 124, 225 AD: Antony van Leeuwenhoek (Great Scientist) has been born in Vienne (Lady Stoneheart)!
Turn 124, 225 AD: Christianity has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 125, 250 AD: Tolosa has grown to size 6.
Turn 125, 250 AD: Tolosa can hurry Trireme for 2⇴ with 26ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 125, 250 AD: Camulodunum has grown to size 11.
Turn 125, 250 AD: Bismarck will trade Archery
Turn 125, 250 AD: Will Sign Open Borders: Bismarck

 

[Noble Zarkon]

This is a friendly reminder for all the teams that the deadline for your final upload will be September 30th, 2020.

 

[SittinDown]

Next Plan:

• Tech Calendar.
• Bulb Astro when GS is ready (about 5 turns, I think).
• Open Borders with Bismark.
• Chop / Whip MoM in Cam and it becomes the Artist city.
• Caravel from Tolosa goes due East to get +1 sea movement bonus.
• Caravel from Cam explores towards Bismark / looks for other AI's.
• Steal Archery from SB (or Peter).

Anything else?
Give some thought to post-Astro strategy too. My standard play would be heading towards Philo / Edu / Lib. Edu is especially interesting with a 1-Uni for Oxford, and the super-Scientists in the Scientist city. But I'm open to other moves there, and I don't want that discussion to interrupt our immediate progress on Calendar / Astro.

 

[kcd_swede]

Sounds like a good plan. Sorry I have been out a few days... lightening storm fried my router.

 

[SittinDown]

Update:

• Calendar is in.
• Stole Archery from Peter, lost the spy. 2 spies on SB now. He has HBR and Con, but we have almost no esp points on him. Still putting all points on Peter.
  
• 1 GS can half-bulb Astro. Another GS will be ready in 7 turns. [Astro will take 13 turns at 100% to research without bulbs.]
  • What should I research while we wait for the 2nd GS for the ASTRO? Or should we self-tech the rest of it?
  • If researching, I think Theo -> Paper. Winning 1st to music looks interesting - use the GA for a MoM GA. More standard, might be CoL to open up Philo, CS, and eventually Edu and Lib.
• Starting on the MoM with chops and whips in Cam. It's going to be slow - and Peter beat us to Calendar, but I did get a Forge up there for better chop / whip overflow.
• 2 caravels built, and a 3rd coming next turn. Should easily get the +1 movement bonus, as nobody we know has compass yet.
• Peter will trade Construction for Currency. Thoughts?

Spoiler Current Tech Tree :

Spoiler Turn Log :

Turn 126, 275 AD: Ramakrishna (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 126, 275 AD: Bismarck adopts Vassalage!
Turn 126, 275 AD: Bismarck adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 126, 275 AD: Sitting Bull adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 126, 275 AD: Claude Dansey (Great Spy) has been born in Moscow (Peter)!

Turn 127, 300 AD: Engineer has grown to size 8.
Turn 127, 300 AD: Peter has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 127, 300 AD: You have discovered Archery!
Turn 127, 300 AD: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 127, 300 AD: A Celtic Spy 2 (Gergovia) has been stumbled upon while operating near the Russian city of Yakutsk!
Turn 127, 300 AD: Clearing a Forest will create 30 ℤ for Camulodunum.
Turn 127, 300 AD: Tolosa will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 127, 300 AD: Verlamion will grow to size 2 on the next turn.

Turn 128, 325 AD: Tolosa has grown to size 5.
Turn 128, 325 AD: Verlamion has grown to size 2.
Turn 128, 325 AD: Verlamion can hurry Lighthouse for 1⇴ with 7ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 128, 325 AD: Peter has 130 gold available for trade.
Turn 128, 325 AD: Camulodunum will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 128, 325 AD: You have discovered Calendar!
Turn 128, 325 AD: You have trained a Caravel in Scientist. Work has now begun on National Epic.
Turn 128, 325 AD: You have constructed a Forge in Camulodunum. Work has now begun on a Trireme.

Turn 129, 350 AD: Verlamion can hurry Lighthouse for 1⇴ with 9ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Clearing a Forest will create 30 ℤ for Verlamion.

 

[kcd_swede]

I need to look at the save before commenting. Within about 12 hrs I'll comment.

 

[kcd_swede]

Looking good so far! My comments in Bold.

• Calendar is in.
• Yay!

• Stole Archery from Peter, lost the spy. 2 spies on SB now. He has HBR and Con, but we have almost no esp points on him. Still putting all points on Peter.
• Only need 640 esp on him to steal something, and we have about 200, so with 50% stationary bonus we are pretty close. Change espionage to 100% SB and it will be available soon. Faster with CH's

• 1 GS can half-bulb Astro. Another GS will be ready in 7 turns. [Astro will take 13 turns at 100% to research without bulbs.]
  • What should I research while we wait for the 2nd GS for the ASTRO? CoL! Or should we self-tech the rest of it? It doesn't speed it up to half tech it, so I am inclined to 2-bulb it (even if that wastes about 100 beakers). OTOH, if we tech it 1/2, then the GSci can bulb Philo (with Meditation) and give us a religion- Taoism to start working on temples etc. No bad choices, and if one is better I don't know which.
  • If researching, I think Theo -> Paper. Winning 1st to music looks interesting - use the GA for a MoM GA. More standard, might be CoL to open up Philo, CS, and eventually Edu and Lib. As long as the Artist city is stuck on MoM, we have no use for Drama>Music. Or do you want whip overflow from a theatre? I like CoL for CH, we are losing 35 gpt on city maint so its significant, plus we can use the espionage points. Too bad you need 8 cities for the Forb Pal, though.

• Starting on the MoM with chops and whips in Cam. It's going to be slow - and Peter beat us to Calendar, but I did get a Forge up there for better chop / whip overflow. I am not confident we get MoM. Maybe we should work on a GE for hurrying a WW for the artist city.

• 2 caravels built, and a 3rd coming next turn. Should easily get the +1 movement bonus, as nobody we know has compass yet. Yay!

• Peter will trade Construction for Currency. Thoughts? Yes, I like it. If he'll throw in some gpt or cash, its even nicer. Hope he builds markets instead of MoM's.

So it seems like we are in a good place. I think we need CH because opponents with CH will eventually cause us problems. Also, it is very useful to force switch civics in a diplomatic victory scenario. Also, CoL is on the way to Philo and Edu to get us to Liberalism first. If you agree with any of the options I gave you, you are green. If you have some other ideas, I'd like to hear them first. Your options Green from me are basically (a) 1-bulb astro and finish astro organically, or (b) 2-bulb astro while organically teching CoL. I'm good with either.

 

[SittinDown]

Note: I updated Page 1 to reflect the current state of the wonders, including ones already built.

Too bad you need 8 cities for the Forb Pal, though.

• OCC - maybe we don't. like 1 uni for oxford, 1 bank for wall street.

About MoM

• Good points. I can run an engi instead of scientist in the engineer city to boost engineer time there.
• Maybe if we lose MoM, throw a couple turns into Drama so we can build the globe in Cam.

Plan (pre-approved by kcd, just writing down so i can see it when I play later)

• Trade for Construction.
• 2x-bulb Astro as soon as the 2nd scientist pops.
• Tech CoL then maybe Philo. Use 3rd scientist to maybe help with Edu.
• Divert Espionage into SB. Anticipate stealing something.
• Build CH's after CoL where it makes sense.

 

[SittinDown]

You are right about FP, by the way. No forbidden palace this game.

 

[SittinDown]

Update:

• Code of Laws is in.
• Starting on Philosophy - ready in about 4 turns.
  
• Caravels have revealed two new rivals:
  • Charlie of HRE - borders Germany. He is plotting.
    • Charlie has Theocracy. He won't trade it yet.
  • Saladin of Arabia - ran into work boat.
  • Germans and HRE both have metal.
• Realized I could max-overflow whip 80 hammer buildings with only 4 hammers invested in Cam - so I max-OF whipped a harbor into MoM and Chopped.
  • Peter does have a city with higher than normal Sabotage Production - (317 vs 100 for others), so he's building something in his size-10 city. Hopefully it's the Parthenon?

I decided to pause there to let people take a look at the diplomatic situation before continuing to get ASTRO, which will be ready in about 4 turns.

Spoiler Log :

Turn 129, 350 AD: You have discovered Construction!
Turn 129, 350 AD: You have discovered Code of Laws!

Turn 130, 375 AD: Will Sign Open Borders: Bismarck
Turn 130, 375 AD: Camulodunum will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 130, 375 AD: St. Augustine (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 130, 375 AD: A Forest has grown near Engineer!

Turn 131, 400 AD: Camulodunum has grown to size 9.
Turn 131, 400 AD: Camulodunum can hurry Harbor for 3 with 32 overflow and +1 for 17 turns.
Turn 131, 400 AD: Verlamion can hurry Lighthouse for 1 with 13 overflow and +1 for 10 turns.
Turn 131, 400 AD: Clearing a Forest will create 30 for Camulodunum.
Turn 131, 400 AD: Tolosa will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 131, 400 AD: Scientist will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 131, 400 AD: Verlamion will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 131, 400 AD: You have constructed a Harbor in Camulodunum. Work has now begun on Mausoleum of Maussollos.
Turn 131, 400 AD: The Kashi Vishwanath has been built in a far away land!

Turn 132, 425 AD: Tolosa has grown to size 6.
Turn 132, 425 AD: Tolosa can hurry Courthouse for 3 with 20 overflow and +1 for 22 turns.
Turn 132, 425 AD: Scientist has grown to size 8.
Turn 132, 425 AD: Verlamion has grown to size 3.
Turn 132, 425 AD: Peter has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 132, 425 AD: Will Sign Open Borders: Charlemagne
Turn 132, 425 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 for Camulodunum.

 

[SittinDown]

Diplo Plan

• Open borders with everyone? Or try to pick a faction?
  • Also - Germany has Hinduism.
  • Charlie has Buddhism.
    • I suspect Charlie also has Christianity.

If we're good on that, or I hear nothing before tonight, I'll continue to play through to Asto like we talked about the other day.

 

[kcd_swede]

Open Don't open with Bismark, then, because he is HRE worst enemy (or will be shrtly). We'll re-evaluate after Astro and some exploring. This strategy assumes we will eventually be able to convert to HRE's religion.

 

[SittinDown]

Update:

• Philo is in
• ASTRO is in.
• We have founded Taoism in Cam.
• We got the circumnavigation bonus.
• We met Louis of France.
• I had already opened borders with Germany, so I also opened borders with their buddy Saladin.
• I did not do anything with Louis yet.
• Found an island with 2 food on it, that *might* be an ok 7th spot. but I'd rather conquest and take a really good spot for #7.

 

[SittinDown]

OK.............. so we pretty much have no plan at this point. We set out to get ASTRO fast, and we did that.

Now what?

I see a couple options:

• Tech strategy:
  • CS -> Paper -> Edu -> Lib
    • A uni & oxford is going to be pretty good in this game.
• War strategy:
  • Muskets & Cats / Rifles & Trebs
    • Normally a crap plan. But without iron, we're looking at gunpowder units, and no cannons.
    • Going to take a while to get started, and gonna make city 7 rough.
  • Cats & HA's
    • Take out Charlie's capital that has iron, and make that city 7. Then we can get the war machine rolling.
    • Risky because the units are garbage. Maybe grab HBR so we can use HA's instead of Chariots.
• GPP Strategy:
  • Drama -> Music diversion for Globe and free GA. I think we still have a decent shot at MoM. I'm not sure but I think only Peter has Calendar.
  • Convert into Paci / O Rel, and convert to a religion.

There's not a ton of land on this map - so I don't think we're going to be outpaced for a while by the AI's.

 

[SittinDown]

If we're lucky, Charlie DOW's Bismark, and we can maybe DOW charlie?

Military Capacity:

• Eng, Vienne, and Tolosa have good hammers and aren't doing anything important.
• Scientist is finishing the NE in 10 turns then can do stuff.
• Cam is finishing MoM.
• The new city is working on a granary, and still getting started. All it's tiles are improved now, and it's forests pre-chopped.