SGOTM 9 - Hagar

[markh]

I can take it for tonight.

 

[Abegweit]

On Gandhi's release

Once released we want him to take over the continent but not take our best science cities until we have researched the req techs - and certainly not WV until then.

I suspect however the problem may be more the slowness of Gandhi's expansion, as the AI will want to expand cautiously with what it perceives as enough units to defend what it has already won.

Any ideas on which city to gift and what direction to allow expansion?

Cities falling within the 7.000 tile rule include all 3 mountain ring cities - Hammerfest, Tromslo and Molde plus key cities Trondheim, WV, Birka and Stockholm.
T is out unless we build a capital elsewhere, WV is out as it has a wonder. Birka and Stockholm mean forgoing 42 and 50 science per turn respectively.

My suggestion below is gift Hammerfest and allow expansion along mountain ring, blocking before T and allowing up our west coast, blocking Stockholm, Stav & Faust until we are ready.

There is an obvious conflict here. The cities we want to give Gandhi to produce his space ship are the same as the ones we need to keep in order to research. I think we should consider giving away our cities earlier even if slows our research rate somewhat. Gandhi's ability to produce is liable to be the limiting factor, not our ability to research.

 

[markh]

0) 750AD : looks fine

IBT : nothing

1) 760AD : nothing important
Brennus has Nationalism, but he won't sell it to us at a reasonable price

IBT : nothing

2) 770AD : nothing important

IBT : Electricity is in -> Scientific Method in 4
New York completes Leonardos'

3) 780AD : nothing important

IBT : Copernicus is built in Forbidden City

4) 790AD : nothing important

IBT : Alesia completes Newtons'

5) 800AD : nothing important

IBT : nothing important
our deals for wool and wines expires

6) 810AD : nothing important

IBT : Scientific Method is in -> Replacable Parts in 5

7) 820AD : nothing important
we buy wines and wool for military tradition and industrialization

IBT : Reyk starts Theory of Evolution due in 22

8) 830AD : nothing important

IBT : nothing

9) 840AD : nothing important

IBT : nothing

10) 850AD : nothing important

All in all quite uneventful. Mainly built workers and settlers. Took RP next to speed up the worker actions.

 

[markh]

Abegweit - on deck
IstariAsuka (waiting on computer)
Khan Asparuh
Andronicus
markh - just played
juballs2001 - up !

 

[juballs2001]

k up, and got it, will post asap... at least by tommorow night

highlight any major points

 

[Andronicus]

Whats the consensus on ToE?
Start now for expensive IA techs atomic and electronics to release Gandhi earlier (8-10 turns earlier) or save it for MA techs after releasing Gandhi making for potentially earlier GLib capture?

Also do we want to plan for SETI and / or internet to speed MA research?

I think we should consider these issues soon as need factory then probably coal plant first in these cities - obviously SETI would require all science improvements to get max benefit (? FC)

 

[Andronicus]

k up, and got it, will post asap... at least by tommorow night

how's it going juballs?

PS Merry Xmas all

 

[juballs2001]

its going... i was hoping other people were gonna add comments.. i can get it done by today, i just wasnt sure if there was anything besides yet another boring turnset to do.

this turnset has been boring and i havent had much time but i can finish it today for sure, will post.

 

[Abegweit]

Whats the consensus on ToE?
Start now for expensive IA techs atomic and electronics to release Gandhi earlier (8-10 turns earlier) or save it for MA techs after releasing Gandhi making for potentially earlier GLib capture?

Also do we want to plan for SETI and / or internet to speed MA research?

I think we should consider these issues soon as need factory then probably coal plant first in these cities - obviously SETI would require all science improvements to get max benefit (? FC)

I find it difficult to choose between the sooner and later options. I think sooner since I believe that Gandhi's ability to produce will be a greater limit than our ability to research but don't feel strongly about it.

FC is definitely a good choice for SETI. We should also build Hoover's for Gandhi. We won't have much to build from here on in except settlers so go for it. We probably need the UN too although the important thing is to make sure that Gandhi doesn't get it, so there is no rush.

Is it getting time to take out the Celtamericans?

 

[Andronicus]

I find it difficult to choose between the sooner and later options. I think sooner since I believe that Gandhi's ability to produce will be a greater limit than our ability to research but don't feel strongly about it.

Thats my preference as I believe we may have quite a wait for Gandhi to take over the continent

FC is definitely a good choice for SETI. We should also build Hoover's for Gandhi. We won't have much to build from here on in except settlers so go for it

.
Hoover could go to Birka - other options include T or WV if we grow them now and give them tiles to use. I dont have the save, but I think Birka lacks infrastructure
Also need to decide where ToE ? Rey. If going for free atomic / electronics we need to build real soon

We probably need the UN too although the important thing is to make sure that Gandhi doesn't get it, so there is no rush.

All victory conditions except diplomatic are turned on

Is it getting time to take out the Celtamericans?

I still believe we may be able to get Rocketry or something out of Celts. We cannot increase territory much above fully settling Spain until we commence gifting to Gandhi without risking dom limit. Our research will be done with current core plus science farms (setting them up in Spain should be our current priorty. War with Celts can wait. The main reason for taking them out at all would be to prevent them from reaching a victory condition - that isnt going to happen unless we are very slack.

 

[Abegweit]

Also need to decide where ToE ? Rey. If going for free atomic / electronics we need to build real soon

It is being built in Rey right now. Due in 22.

All victory conditions except diplomatic are turned on.

Ah. Good to know. There still a MAJOR benefit to building all outstanding wonders: it prevents MG from wasting his time on them.

I still believe we may be able to get Rocketry or something out of Celts.

They are ridiculously behind. It just won't happen. I am more interested in understanding why they are paying us 100 gpt today when it was 160 gpt at the beginnning of my last turns. It should be more, not less. Obviously someone was lax about checking diplomacy.

We cannot increase territory much above fully settling Spain until we commence gifting to Gandhi without risking dom limit.

Fully settling Spain will have almost no effect on our territory count. This is intensification, not expansion.

The main reason for taking them out at all would be to prevent them from reaching a victory condition - that isnt going to happen unless we are very slack.

The main reason for taking them is to get a new home. We are very close to the point were we need to abandon our capital - and most of the rest of the continent, if not all.

BTW, Merry Christmas to all those who live in tomorrow morning.

 

[juballs2001]

k guys, just about done, i will wrap it up and post shortly

 

[juballs2001]

k guys, only got through 5 turns, as i need to get ready for christmas so i apoligize

850 AD- .....looks good... lots of workers

IBT: Oslo and Birka built factory, switch to Coal Plants

860AD- workers working

IBT: Settler as Trond. Pollution near trond. and celts build Js Bach in Richborough

870AD - New Tromos built

IBT: rep. parts in, switch to steel in 6 as GPT from Celts expires. Steel in 5 at -51 per turn.

880AD - New Vadso founded

890AD - New Farsund built, New Risor built

900AD ......... boring turn what can i say


i finished here as i said previously. i totally forgot to upkeep the settler factories until turn 3, which was a bit late, hope too much harm wasnt done and i apologize for that.

currently on the next turn we will lose 191 gold and steel in 3 or 4 i beleiev. Celts will give 105 gpt for electricity, i will let whomever goes after me decide that. i think we have to many workers as our GPT for units is approaching 100 per turn, currently at 94.

good luck to whomever is next and happy holidays to all

 

[markh]

Merry Christmas to all !

In my turnset a deal with the Celts expired and he did not offer any good gpt deal for the techs we could offer, so the incoming money dropped from 160 to 100.

 

[Andronicus]

Just had a look at the save and was disappointed in lack of use of scientists in our science farms.
These totally cirrupt cities should never work a 0 fpt tile (Thunderfall - coal mountain, Leptis Magna 2 unirrigated deserts, Hippo a mountain, spSeville gold moumtain and Almarikh coal mountain) We get no production nor commerce from these (ok, I think gold mountain may give 1 commerce) but these can easily be replaced by scientists for 3 science per turn. Similarly 1 fpt tiles should be fired and hire a scientist instead. Many RRiGrass tiles are not being worked whilst 1 or 2 fpt tiles are worked instead. In these corrupt areas only food counts. Excess food must then be used to hire scientists.
Currently civ assist shows us with 26 scientists. Quickly scrolling through F1 city screens and firing low food tile citizens and hiring scientists where food wasted I increased this to 89 scientists - I'm sure with some thought into switching tiles between cities this could be increased further.

The railroad around the mountain ring looks impressive, but I'm not sure what its supposed to achieve. Thats a lot of worker moves when we still have jungle above east choke to clear, irr and RR; jungle near Sabratha and above west choke, unirrigated grass in old Carthage; almost complete jungle on east jungle isle (edit - btw I notice the workers on the iron hill - we dont req more iron connected up and mining it will be wasted on corruption so why not clear the jungle first so we can hire more scientists); unimproved mountain tiles being worked (or waiting to be worked) by core cities (see Oslo); and plains tiles needing mining in core cities with wasted food (see Cop, Rey and Birka) to increase production.

I agree we have enough workers - just need them doing useful tasks. We need more settlers. Spain can support 13 more towns, eastern jungle isle 1 more as well as spare spots in food rich regions old Otto and old Carth.
I recommend switching many worker builds to settlers. Also I suggest switching T & WV to unis and growing (will give lots more science).

I remain unconvinced about iron works - due to be built in 31 turns - how much use will it be before we give it to Gandhi? My understanding is that small wonders disappear when the city changes hands. If we are going to build it then at least build it quickly by using coal tile -> 22 turns.

Notice a galleon with 2 settlers on board between east jungle isle and Celts - ? where is it headed - I suggest Spain.

Why is Farsund building lib?

ToE is now due in 12. Steel will take 3 more even with scientists, that leaves 9 turns for refining and combustion. Is this doable? Both these techs are same cost - presently can show 5 turns to refining with scientists added, might be pushing it to scrape a 4 turn tech (now there's a challenge for the next player )

If we want to build Hoover then it would have to be FC in order for it to have river in its radius. Not sure if its worth it as not much left to build apart from SETI and that should be in FC anyway - has it time for both?

Obviously we should get Celts 105gpt to help fund our science push.
I favour also giving Celts lots of luxes to ensure he spends his commerce on either gpt to us or helping tech research.

We are approx 22 turns away from releasing Gandhi.

 

[Abegweit]

My civ 3 disk disappeared during our move so I am going to be without it for at least a couple of days. I would appreciate a swap.

 

[Andronicus]

Abegweit - without civ3 few days - requests swap
IstariAsuka - no word on computer availability since 25th Nov
Khan Asparuh - up
Andronicus
markh
juballs2001 - just played

 

[Abegweit]

Comment from col on Civ4 Gotm:

My most creative game was highest scoring loss. Stay just below dom limit leaving one city alive. Empty your cities leaving an ants trail of workers so that one warrior captured all my cities ending on the final turn....

 

[Andronicus]

Empty your cities leaving an ants trail of workers so that one warrior captured all my cities ending on the final turn....

Sounds like a very usable strat in our circumstances - maybe even ensures Gandhi takes cities in order of our chosing - ie start west, head north then down to WV once all techs researched

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Sorry for missing this guys, I'll try to play tonight. Got it.

PS: Look at those 3 nice round zeros after the 1... 1000 posts... Nice.