SGOTM 9 - Hagar

[Andronicus]

@ markh

I think there are a few high priorities for your turnset - the first is getting the SF at T back in business. There is a choice to get settler out next turn or delay a turn to prevent going down further in size - either way T will be size 3 on your turn 2 and at 5fpt get back to size 4.5 for the SF on your turn 5 resulting in next settler on your turn 9. I vote to get settler out next turn.
There are then plenty of MM opportunities with sharing around valuable tiles.

Workers are also in short supply - in post 88 I mention a number of possibilities -

Workers - we only have 4 with 7 cities - IMO we could do with 5 or 6 more ASAP. Birka could switch warrior -> worker in 6 turns, Cop from settler -> worker in 5 turns (using lake, then cow, then back to lake - forest on growth), and Rey can do worker in 3 in place of settler.

Also consider when start pyramids if trade for masonary at start of your turn. If we are going to go for pyramids it is important to get WV up in size and production quickly (ie keep at 5fpt if poss)

Next settler - I note Carth is settling near western choke - I recommend settling ivory ASAP - preferably with settler currently on way to river.

Edit - note cross post re trading writing

 

[juballs2001]

i did not trade writing because we were still 10+ turns away from code of laws in my turnset.

republic is fairly important in this game, so i wanted to ensure we had philosophy first.

hopefully civs on the other continent(s) dont discover it before us

 

[markh]

Here is my log :

0) 1500BC : raise lux to prevent riots in wonderville
change Copenhagen and Reykjavik to workers
we trade writing to Otto for bronze working, masonry, the wheel and ceremonial burial
we trade writing to mongols for iron working and 25 gold
we trade writing to carthage for 10 gold, he would not pay more
all three are up mysticism

we have iron near Reykjavik and horses near Birka

IBT : a barb ship attacks our curragh, so someone has mapmaking !!!!
Trondheim completes settler -> archer
Wonderville completes settler -> worker

1) 1475BC : lower lux to 0

IBT: Oslo completes archer -> warrior
Stockholm completes warrior -> worker

2) 1450BC : archer kills barb
lux up to 20% to prevent riots

IBT: Wonderville completes worker -> pyramids
Reykjavik completes worker -> warrior

3) 1425BC : warrior kills barb camp netting us 25 gold and promotion to vet

IBT : Copenhagen completes worker -> barracks

4) 1400BC : lower lux to 10% due to MP in Trondheim, Mongols learn Horseback Riding

IBT : Trondheim completes archer -> settler

5) 1375BC : found Arhus -> worker
lux can be reduced to 0% due to MP in Trondheim

IBT : Oslo completes warrior -> worker
Birka completes warrior -> warrior

6) 1350BC : found Stavanger -> warrior
raise lux to 20% to prevent riots in Trondheim

IBT : COL is in -Y Philosophy in 8 at 80%
Reykjavik completes warrior -> barracks

7) 1325BC : archer kills barb and promotes to vet
found Odense -> warrior
shuffle some units -> reduce lux to 10%, research up to 90% -> philo reduced to 6 turns at -2gpt

IBT : we can build The Forbidden Palace
Carthage begins work on The Pyramids

8) : 1300BC : raise lux to 20% to prevent riots in Trondheim

IBT : Trondheim completes settler -> settler

9) 1275BC : incense hooked up -> lux reduce to 0% -> research to 90% -> philo due in 4

IBT : Oslo completes worker -> settler

10) 1250BC : not much to do

If I am not wrong the 4-turn SF in Trondheim is online again.
I forgot to check whether COL is still a monopoly on our continent. We could have traded it for mysticism and horseback riding. Not worth it IMO. The Mongols are the only ones having HB.
Both chokes are blocked.
Iron will be hooked up IBT.
Next city I would put SW of the second Iron south of our Ivory city.
The civs on our continent are quite weak and we could finish them fast with swords I think.
And a pic.

 

[IstariAsuka]

Hm.... 52 turns for the pyramids, ouch. Hopefully when we get it it'll still be helpful for getting our science farm up more quickly in the northern territies.

An idea--can't you, when you pick up republic, choose to revolt right away when the box pops up, and then if the anarchy time is too high use the f1 key to go to the advisor's screen and try again in there, or something? There's some way to try twice right when you get it, to help reduce riot time--someone did it last SGOTM. I'll look it up, since that could be helpful.

Oh, and whatever happened to irrigating the deer? Did we decide against that? Or were we just so close to Republic as to be a waste of time?

Roster
Abegweit - Up.
Istari Asuka
Khan Asparuh
Andronicus
juballs 2001
markh - Just Played.

 

[markh]

I do not think we get the pyramids. Cathage started it more or less right after we started it. We should have traded for masonry sooner to have a chance getting it. Maybe we can join some workers to get the city up, but I do not think that we will be successful. I even think the other continent will get it as they seem to be more advanced than ours as there are barb ships around which means somebody has map making already. I hope we get the rep sling shot.

I think I read that irrigating the deer is not necessary. Maybe I misunderstood.

 

[Andronicus]

1500BC ...
we trade writing to Otto for bronze working, masonry, the wheel and ceremonial burial
we trade writing to mongols for iron working and 25 gold
we trade writing to carthage for 10 gold, he would not pay more
all three are up mysticism

Looks like we got these trades just in time - 10g suggests Carth may have discovered writing next turn

we have iron near Reykjavik and horses near Birka

a barb ship attacks our curragh, so someone has mapmaking !!!!

Must be other continent

Mongols learn Horseback Riding

Who said Monguls would be useless at researching?

we can build The Forbidden Palace

Stavanger appears ideally situated but is shield poor. My vote would be for next city 1N, 3NW of Aarhus with court first sped by 3 forest chops, then rushed to speed commencement FP, but there is also an argument that we will be abandoning these cities at a mid stage in game so max benefit of FP is in early build so build in core city (? Rey) which is close to WV meaning WV stays productive even after palace jump to other continent (I figure we may want to establish our base on other island before handing this one to Ghandi). Any thoughts?

If I am not wrong the 4-turn SF in Trondheim is online again.

I forgot to check whether COL is still a monopoly on our continent. We could have traded it for mysticism and horseback riding. Not worth it IMO. The Mongols are the only ones having HB.

The tech I would like the AI to research next is math - this would need sharing around immediately to encourage poss research on construction. I suspect we will need to self-research lit and currency - if AI researches math, constr, MM & poly we will be lucky. I predict Carth may go for MM being seafaring, Ottomen are likely already researching poly or math as they gave us full price on writing. Most likely we will have to research at least one of construction or poly. I recomend holding lib if we intend building GLib after Pyramids so Carthage doesnt switch to it

The civs on our continent are quite weak and we could finish them fast with swords I think.

I agree they are weak
The difficulties with war are 2 fold
1) There is a lot of jungle between us and them making reinforcement of supply lines slow
2) War will slow research by distracting us from pushing science and disrupting our targets from any science help
I favour waiting until they / us settle jungle cities and a road is in place and then consider going for mongols. I agree with Khan's comment after my turnset about waiting for knights.

 

[Andronicus]

Hm.... 52 turns for the pyramids, ouch. Hopefully when we get it it'll still be helpful for getting our science farm up more quickly in the northern territies.

We will shortly be in republic - poss just 3 more turns of despotism then anarchy then rep. Once in rep the lambs amd irr cow on plains will allow WV 5fpt so it can quickly grow and should be able to double production bringing down time for build significantly.

An idea--can't you, when you pick up republic, choose to revolt right away when the box pops up, and then if the anarchy time is too high use the f1 key to go to the advisor's screen and try again in there, or something? There's some way to try twice right when you get it, to help reduce riot time--someone did it last SGOTM. I'll look it up, since that could be helpful.

This only applies to PTW - doesnt work for conquests.

Oh, and whatever happened to irrigating the deer? Did we decide against that? Or were we just so close to Republic as to be a waste of time?

Again we will be in rep so soon it is not worth changing. The irr grass plus mined game is no diff from mined grass and irr game in rep. Given T has lots of shields avail it should be able to use both these tiles freeing up cows for WV.

PS WV could increase production right away by using mBG currently worked by T and T instead using mGrass.

 

[Abegweit]

I'm already up again? This has been going smoothly. I'll get to it first thing in the morning.

 

[Abegweit]

Just took a glance at the save. Looking good Nice blocking at the chokes.

I just made an embassy with Carthage to scope things out. We don't have to worry to about them getting the Pyramids. Carthage is size 1 and 178 turns from finishing. I want to push that ASAP. Given that we are going to build it, we should as much benefit as possible.

What to research next after Republic? I'm thinking Math. Both these techs should be passed around for whatever we can get for them. The tech pace needs to be accelerated and there's no better way to do that than to get these two techs out there. Next is currency.

 

[Andronicus]

What to research next after Republic? I'm thinking Math. Both these techs should be passed around for whatever we can get for them. The tech pace needs to be accelerated and there's no better way to do that than to get these two techs out there. Next is currency.

Agree
Rep -> revolt -> trade or gift
Math (may be Ottomen researching?) -> trade or gift
Lit - hold onto until GLib built
Currency -> trade or gift
Construction (if AI doesnt research first)
Poly - hopeful AI will research
MM - AI will definitely research

 

[Abegweit]

Preflight:

Looking good. I establish an embassy with Carthage to scope out the Pyramids situation. We are in no danger of losing the race.

BTW…. we have 11 warriors and 5 archers (!) without any barracks. Why? Guys… regular archers just shouldn’t happen. You can be sure that some of these will get disbanded after the switch to Republic. We already have too much weakling military and not enough workers. All builds are switched to workers or settlers.

Turn 1 1225 BC Copenhagen worker -> worker. Archer disperses barb camp. Archer @ Stavenger starts trek to eastern choke.

Turn 2 1200 BC Stockholm worker -> barracks. Give cow to WV. Anarchy is coming anyway and Trondheim will grow too large. It will have to be pruned back but Wonderville needs growth.

Turn 3 1175 BC Learn Philo and Republic, start Math. Trondheim settler->settler. Advance the troops at the eastern choke a couple of squares. Revolution. Seven turns of anarchy. Ouch!

Turn 4 1150 BC Hareid founded, starts worker

Turn 5 1125 BC Snooze

Turn 6 1100 BC Snooze

Turn 7 1075 BC Molde founded, starts worker.

Turn 8 1050 BC Snooze.

Turn 9 1025 BC Pyramids built in Entremont Wonderville switched to Palace. Carthaginians switch to Oracle.

Turn 10 1000 BC A warrior dies of disease in the jungle! I have never seen that. The Hagafarian Republic is established. Several regular warriors are disbanded.

Notes to next player. There is one more warrior to be disbanded – in Copenhagen. I believe that there is a barb camp at the end of the peninsula to the northwest of Hareid and am moving an archer towards it. The curraghs are moving into position for suicide runs. I have not yet gifted Republic around. I was hoping to get Math for it but it looks like this won't happen.

Bad news about the Pyramids. We need to think about how this affects our strategy.

 

[markh]

Good news that we are a republic.

Hopefully we get over to the other continent soon and maybe we can sell republic there. Let's cross our fingers for our brave seamen in their curraghs.

 

[IstariAsuka]

Got the save, will play either today or tomorrow.

 

[Andronicus]

Bad news about the Pyramids. We need to think about how this affects our strategy.

Looking at it an other way - it should speed up our growth for our overseas settlement

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Earth calling IstariAsuka, is there anybody out there?

I'll need a skip or a swap until next tuesday, 29, please...

 

[Andronicus]

Roster
Abegweit - just played
Istari Asuka - posted got it over 2 days ago - please advise progress
Khan Asparuh - skip till 29/11 (or swap if slow progress )
Andronicus - on deck
juballs 2001
markh

 

[IstariAsuka]

Hey guys, I'm really sorry about this, but I've run into some unexpected computer problems and will have to take a pass. I thought I could fix them in time to play my set, but I guess not.

Hopefully I'll have everything sorted out by my next turnset. :/

 

[Andronicus]

Hey guys, I'm really sorry about this, but I've run into some unexpected computer problems

Me too. Sent computer in today. Fortunately my son is away on schoolies week so I've installed civ on his computer and are "borrowing" it (technically it's actually still mine as he hasn't repaid it yet .

Thus I've "got it" - will play straight away

 

[Andronicus]

The save
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Hagar_SG009_BC0730_01.SAV

Sorry I lost count and played 11

Summary
Suicide curragh to west made it to other continent(s) and contacted Spanish, Americans and Celts
Curragh to east found a jungle island
We have maths (Monguls and Indians beat us), Lit and currency due in 6
Traded away maths but kept lit. Have not given away rep - think we should.
Lacking only curr, const & monarchy (Celts have) of AA techs
T back to 4 turn SF at size 4.5-6.5
WV now size 9, 14spt and GLib due in 15
Incense about to be roaded allowing decreased lux, dye city soon to be founded also req roading.
Choke cities will both be founded next turn
Forbidden City building court - can be sped by 3 or 4 forest chops, then build FP.

 

[Andronicus]

Pre-turn
Notice worker roading mountain 2 S of T. This will never be in any city's radius and does not help roading to Molde -> stop. Another worker irrigating game. This tile has been discussed before - now we are in rep we can get 5fpt from mined game and irr grass 1S of T. Further food is not helpful for 4 turn SF unless we run 10fpt size 10-12. This is possible if T uses iCow, iGame, 2iGrass plus sundry mGrass to bring spt to 7. The advantage to this is increased science if build lib, also benefits from harbour for use of 2 coast tiles. The cost however is loss of 3 settlers (30 shields for harbour, 80 shields for lib less 20 for 2 forest chops -> 90 shields) and WV unable to use cow (plus less tiles avail to 2 SE cities but this less important). I felt this was too high a cost at this stage where we still have a bit of REXing to go, once we have enough settlers T can be brought up to size with a lib as well fairly quickly. The short story is I stopped the irrigating (sorry).
Lux up to 20
MM to max commerce and prod in T and WV both of which have XS food
Switch Haried to court with plan of building FP there next (rename Forbidden City)
Note India have myst and math but not writing yet.
Trade Carth CoL for MM. HBR + 12g, Ott CoL for myst, Mong CoL for 34g

Turn 1 975BC
Rey settler -> court (lib pre-build)
Birka worker -> court
send W curragh W on suicide mission
send E curragh E -> finds land - jungle

Turn 2 950BC
Arhuus worker -> worker
W curragh still in ocean, sees shallow water N and W

Turn 3 925BC
Cop worker -> galley (to send settlers to claim eastern land)
Stav worker -> worker
Barb horses north of FC - archer kills 1, other can reach FC next turn
W curragh makes it to safety - finds light blue borders
lux -> 30

Turn 4 900BC
Barb horse takes 9 gold from FC
Maths -> Lit
T settler -> settler
Contact Spain - up poly down writing
Monguls have Maths as well as us
Give math to Carth and Otto for poly, hold off trading to Spain
W curragh finds Amercan warrior and green borders
Sell Alpha to Americans for all their gold (96)

Turn 5 875BC
Archer takes out barb camp N of FC
Eastern land is uninhabited jungle island with an iron hill

Turn 6 850BC
Contact Celts - give writing for all their gold (240)

Turn 7 825BC
Oslo settler -> court

Turn 8 800BC
T settler -> settler

Turn 9 775BC
W curragh survives barb galley
- Spain appears separated from Celts, America on same landmass as Celts

Turn 10 750 BC
Lit -> currency
Molde worker -> worker
WV switched to GLib - due in 16
courts switched to libs (exc FC)

Turn 11 730BC
Cop galley -> lib


Notes next player
Settlers - 2 in pos at chokes to W and E - settle next turn, one in FC on way to dyes 2 N (edit more ICS towns avail if move 1NW per dot map below), one on hill E of Odense planned for 2N of Odense (shortens roads to choke and allows ICS
Workers - one E of Odense about to road to connect up ivory. Other priorities include roading to dyes and chopping forest around FC to speed court (note cannot speed FP with chops etc). Still a few tiles around main core req improving - mine grass and irr plains. Worker on incense hill to mine for increased production.
Soon will have barb uprisings - warrior to S of Odense and archers N of Odense and N of FC are on barb lookout.
Next cities (after 4 mentioned above) - 2E of FC, 2S of Odense, then room for sev more in dye jungle region, up to 5 ICSing jungle island and further 1 in area just north of Odence - E of where archer is currently. Also 2 further options in mountain ring around India. Keep spamming those settlers!
(edit - have done dot map and a few other sites look pos as well as moving dye town)
We have 15 workers with 3 more on the way - good number for 12 cities.
Unit support costs are getting sig, I would consider disbanding E curragh (have galley avail there now) and perhaps warrior at E choke - leaving 2 archers to complete block.