SGOTM 9 - Hagar

[Abegweit]

Priority #1 is to get a settler factory ASAP.
Priority #2 is to get a settler factory with an irrigated deer so that Wonderville can benefit from the additional food from the cattle.

Nothing else even comes close. NOTHING. I really can't imagine that mining the deer helps achieve either of these objectives, although I haven't worked it out. I'm less sure about this, but I doubt the third worker did either.

 

[Abegweit]

Just to make it clear, roads do not help with either of these goals.

 

[IstariAsuka]

Priority #1 is to get a settler factory ASAP.
Priority #2 is to get a settler factory with an irrigated deer so that Wonderville can benefit from the additional food from the cattle.

Nothing else even comes close. NOTHING. I really doubt that mining the deer helps achieve either of these objectives, although I haven't worked it out.

I think that mining the deer actually will allow us to get the settler factory up a little faster than if we had irrigated the deer right away. If that is not the case, then I apologize, but at worst we've lost a couple extra food for Wonderville.

Just to make it clear, roads do not help with either of these goals.

I did not mean to say that I built 2 workers at the expense of getting the factory up to speed. In fact, I can tell you right now it would have taken quite a while longer to get the factory ready with only 1 worker.

I only meant that they'll continue to be very useful in roading for our settlers in the future.

 

[Abegweit]

So long as we are agreed on the priorities, that is the essential point. Still... I don't understand how mining the deer could get the settler factory up faster than mining a BG instead. Once it's cut, we already have five food. And it definitely conflicts with priority #2.

 

[Abegweit]

In CivIII, there is nothing more important than setting up a settler factory if possible. Nothing. I was seriously annoyed that my forest chops were timed to get a settler instead of a warrior, worker or a granary. Perhaps this means I made a mistake (can't find it though - if you can please illuminate me).

I don't recall a case where a third worker helped set up a settler factory (a second often is useful). You didn't provide a turnlog. Can you explain why you thought the third worker would be useful and how it got the settler factory off the ground faster?

 

[juballs2001]

great work so far guys. so ottomans mongols and carthage.

best bet is to weaken the mongols and ottomans. carthage will be strong but will probably help us with the tech race.

we dont want to let the ottomans get too strong as the siphi is a unit to be reckoned with

 

[Abegweit]

Just opened on the save. Looks good. While I criticised the move earlier, perhaps the third worker was a good thing. In any case, we are definitely about go into REX mode.

This may be obvious but anyway... notes to next player:

Both Trondheim and Wonderville are about to finish warriors next turn. One of these should go on MP duty in T. The other can explore to the south and west. T should build one more MP before starting settlers. WV should make a worker. After that it can start the Pyramids. This wonder will be powerful for us in the early game and for MG later on.

T will be ready to go into factory mode once the second warrior is built - in three turns from now. This will be the first factory I described but at size 4.5 instead of 4. This half-size growth is not bad at all, as we can migrate smoothly to the third factory without missing a beat.

The switch is high priority... but so is ensuring that the new cities have good improved squares to work. Go for it.

Oh. And get us a couple of curraghs.

I like the lie of the land so far. There are chokes above the ivory and dies. We should claim this area as our homeland in the early game, with an eye to possibly gifting it to MG later on.

In the near future we need to think about city placement in the north, about where our FP will be and whether to build the Great Lighthouse. The Lighthouse can often be crucial in a continents game. Once our REX is over, the capital could build it really quick.

 

[Abegweit]

great work so far guys. so ottomans mongols and carthage.

best bet is to weaken the mongols and ottomans. carthage will be strong but will probably help us with the tech race.

we dont want to let the ottomans get too strong as the siphi is a unit to be reckoned with

If we see a siphi before riflemen I will be seriously . We do need to keep them around for their free techs.

 

[juballs2001]

thats true... we will be ahead in techs...

but as someone who regularly plays as the ottomans... the siphi is very dangerous in large stacks, even against fortified infantry.

 

[Andronicus]

Have had a look at save

Workers
I'm not unhappy at having 3 workers - they have much do
Agree totally first priority is get SF up and running, 2nd is to dev WV's working tiles and 3rd is roads to improve commerce and speed our settlers out in addition to connect to lux.

Research
India is up CB and BW on us (all those bonus coast tiles), other civs up those plus masonary and wheel.
We should start researching faster now we have a bunch of workers to dev the terrain. With writing we should be able to trade to tech parity. Do we want to hold writing until after researching CoL to protect the rep slingshot? I suggest we do. After slingshot we should try to get maths, writing and myst distributed to allow AI to research helpful techs like constr, MM and poly leaving us to research currency and lit (IW and HBR will likely be researched by AI)

Exploration
We seem to be on a large continent with sev chokes. I agree we should settle the chokes after settling prime spots and then luxes, backfilling can then follow. Ther are a few areas on our side of the chokes needing uncovering.
City 3 should build a couple of curraghs to search for other continent(s) - differential movement favours suicide trips esp with seafaring civ.

Dot map next cities
Perhaps too early, but felt we need a prelim map to stimulate discussion.
I think red dot should be next. Then perhaps the 2 SE ones followed by yellow one on insense. I chose the western insense to give more room to core and allow irrigation through it. (edit - it also has 1 tile less overlap with Delhi so less flip risk)
I'm uncertain about blue dot on north of lake - may be crowding too much, but wanted a 2nd lake city (? 1 SW) (??FP city)
I would then consider purple dot (western one) on river (??FP city) leading to southern lime green dot on ivory. Next 2 could go at chokes, then dyes and more on the river. Lime green and yellow ones in northern regoins will be essentially corrupt and can be ICSed.
(edit ? further land beyond mountains to SW)
Will reqire some advance military to scout for barbs - 3rd & 4th cities could go military (vet archers / swords) after curragh.

 

[Andronicus]

thats true... we will be ahead in techs...

but as someone who regularly plays as the ottomans... the siphi is very dangerous in large stacks, even against fortified infantry.

Ah, but that is in the hands of a human player ... we all know how capable the AI is in stacking units - esp multiple move units.

Still I would not want us to vacate the continent leaving an emerging India to handle a strong Ottomans

 

[Andronicus]

Roster
Abeweit
Istari Asuka - founded Wonderville
Khan Asparuh - up
markh - on deck (gratz on sticking it out to complete SGOTM 8)
Andronicus
juballs 2001

 

[Abegweit]

Agreed, Andronicus. Some additional comments:

1. I still believe that MG's island is in an inland sea. I could be proven wrong, of course, but the lie of the land and the re-appearing curragh lead me to this conclusion. Plus... it seems somehow elegant on the part of the map designer. Whether right or wrong, the point is that the curraghs should be built on the south-east coasts, not the west. If I am right, western curraghs are useless. If wrong, little is lost.

2. Trading writing should be delayed until such point as its value starts to go down. When it does, get whatever you can. This needs to be checked every turn. After Republic, go the usual route. Math needs to be spread around. The AI loves to research construction and we should encourage it to get this expensive tech. In the meantime, Literature, Currency and Polytheism are good research choices. Currency is certainly the number one choice between the three. The AI shuns it. Furthermore, we have three luxes so markets will clearly help our growth.

3. We should have little military until its time for conquer-the-world mode. Beyond what we have now (and are about to build), a couple of barb-killers is sufficient. We want knights and berserks, not Ancient Age punies. Given that the objective is space, for the most part they should be built from scratch.

4. Further on my there-is-land-to-the west theory. If true, we might consider grabbing MG's island once he builds something over there. He has a ton of resources and it is very close to home.

 

[Abegweit]

5. Don't worry about flip-risk. It's tiny to start with and, given that we are at permanent war, the city can just be retaken.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

OK guys, sorry I was unable to hook on the forum during the weekend.
I won't be able to play it tonight, or it's not likely to, but got it for tomorrow or so. Will reread and proceed.

 

[markh]

markh - on deck (gratz on sticking it out to complete SGOTM 8)

Thanks. It was a funny game, although we had no chance in the competition.

Our start looks good. I will have a look at the save this evening to get more familiar with this game.

 

[markh]

I am on a business trip from today to Thursday, so I cannot play during that time. As I would be up after Khan I could play my turns on Friday at the earliest, if that is too late for the team I need a skip or swap.

 

[Andronicus]

I am on a business trip from today to Thursday, so I cannot play during that time. As I would be up after Khan I could play my turns on Friday at the earliest, if that is too late for the team I need a skip or swap.

Consider it a swap

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

SGOTM9
(0) 2550BC
After a lot of problems I finally made it to load the game. The mods are difficult to make work in the French version, hope the CIV isn’t the same. Looks nice, warriors about to complete, I’m not used to have my cities without MP. This is only monarch though. How comes we’re so back in tech on Monarch? Click enter.
(IBT) T warrior – warrior, W warrior-granary (maybe a placeholder)
(1) 2500BC
Lower lux. Why is the BG being roaded before mined?
(2) 2450BC
Lux up
(3) 2400BC
T warrior – settler. There’s a mongol warrior near us, I send him in Wville.
(4) 2350BC
Hapiness management. Ghandi’s curragh is staying still. This is definitely an inner sea. Trondheim can’t be is a warrior-settler factory, or at least I can’t figure it out.
(5) 2310BC
Not much
(6) 2270BC
T’s Settler going for red dot, this will allow wonderville to work the cow.
(7) 2230BC
I missed this turn somewhere
(8) 2190BC
Not much.
(9) 2150BC
Not more.
I think that I’ve messed the turns… So I’ll stop here, it’s a nice date.
The settler is due next turn. The AI is sleeping. I thought that with all those plains Wonderville can use a granary. Sorry if the team disagrees. No pic, nothing interesting new. The settler is in position for third city.
The Save

 

[Andronicus]

How comes we’re so back in tech on Monarch?

The AIs have presumably traded amongst themselves so we have had no trade oportunities yet. Ghandi has been given a science rocket - pity it wont last. The map mods allow lots of commerce, but until he gets off his rock this will not increase - indeed may go down as he builds more units and bankrupts himself perhaps?
Provided no-one else knows writing we should gain lead with that.

Edit - Got it - will play today