SGOTM 9 - jeffelammar

[denyd]

My funding thought was after Gandhi had taken our island and before he decided to take to the seas.

At some point there is going to be India on our home island with us everywhere else except for a single Ottoman & Celtic city. The Ottoman, Indians and us will have all of the SS techs and the Celts will be backward. If we setup an embargo with between the Ottoman & Celts, then any cash given to the Celts will probably wind up going to the Indians for techs.

When I play tonight, I will adjust by valley of doom to direct that Indian Archer to our northern (corrupt) cities. This does mean that the Indians will meet the Celts. Do we want to delay this event? If so then Bodo will be a better choice, though it is a coastal city. Can someone suggest a city that fulfills these needs.

1. Not to far from Aarhus to be corrupt
2. Will not allow contact with Ottoman or Celts
3. Is not coastal
4. Does not put too big of dent in our reseach or production

Note that the Indian Archer is already heading north

 

[jeffelammar]

Can someone suggest a city that fulfills these needs.

The city that I suggested a while back (and still think is good) is Hareid.
It is coastal, but with no access to the main ocean. He might even start his navy before we let him take one of the canal towns to get out of there.

I'm pretty sure Ghandi knows Osman, and since Hareid isn't external coast, it won't accellerate meeting Brennus.

 

[denyd]

Turn Log 4

Turn 0 – 1400 AD – Trade Economics to Ottoman for 20g + WM – I played around with trying to hire enough scientists to reduce the research to 3 but I couldn’t do it so I put everything back

IBT: Just some Celtic ship movement – Trondheim Modern Armor->Modern Armor – Oslo same – Stavanger same

Note that we are 56 tiles away from accidental domination win

Turn 1 – 1405 AD – Park a Modern Armor Army next to Verulamium – Switch Stockholm to Pentagon (due in 3) – Airlift a trio of MA to Celtic lands – Clean up a pollution tile

IBT: Channel City Mech Inf->MA – Rusicade market->offshore platform

Turn 2 – 1410 AD – Send 2 MA & 1 MI to Celtic lands

IBT: Bergen MA->MA – Haried airport->bomber – Batsfjord commercial dock->bomber

Turn 3 – 1415 AD – Airlift 1 MA – Clean up pollution

IBT: India sends an archer north – Discover Satellites research Nuclear Power (due in 6 but I’ll try to speed that up) – Full world map is displayed – Carthage market->library – Trondheim MA->MA – Oslo MA-> MA – Almanrikh court->aqueduct – Stockholm Pentagon->Army – Stavanger MA->MA – Odense MA-MA – Bodo MA-MA – Indian borders expand

Turn 4 – 1420 AD – Airlift 3 MA – Clean up pollution – Build a mine – Back troops out of Indian lands – MM to speed research to 5 turns – Shipped 6 artillery to Celtic lands

IBT: Renew Furs for 11gpt with Celts – Indian Archer returns to India – Istanbul court->market – Channel City MA->MA – Reykjavik MA->MA – Birka C-Dock->Mech Inf – Hovd C-Dock->Offshore Platform – Risor factory->MA – Neu Oslo aqueduct->market

Turn 5 – 1425 AD – Moved defenders to encourage Gandhi to take Hareid – Clean up pollution – Deposit 6 Artillery in Celtic land – Sign ROP with Celts giving spices for 44g

IBT: Renew Incense for 21gpt with Celts – Indian Archer (2/3) kills one of our warriors – Bergen MA->MA – New Hammerfest market->court

Turn 6 – 1430 AD – Replace all front line AA defenders with more modern units – Add a pair of railed tiles to home island and clean up pollution in Spain

IBT: Renew Silks for 12gpt with Celts – Oslo MA-MA – Stavanger MA-MA

Turn 7 – 1435 AD – Disband a regular pike & knight to hurry an MA – Clean up pollution by Stockholm

IBT: Indian Archer back to Aarhus to heal – Madrid bank->Hydro plant – Trondheim MA->MA – Bergen MA->MA – Channel City MA-MA – Stockholm Army->Army – Odense MA-MA – Molde SETI Project->Offshore platform – Bodo MA->MA – Risor MA->MA – Neu Bergen aqueduct->market

Turn 8 – 1440 AD – Load up 4 unit MA Army and send it to Celtic island – Workers cleaning up Risor mountain pollution – Move MA to primary defensive positions – SETI allows research to drop to 90%

IBT: Discover Nuclear Power research The Laser (due in 5) – Delhi harbor->market

Turn 9 – 1445 AD – Position MA Army by Lugdunum – BTW: We are now strong against the Celts – Tried but unable to get research to 4 turns

*** I ran a couple of tests on a recent COTM and found that the AI will normally head for the nearest unprotected city when at war if any path exists – Once the unit starts on that path if the path is blocked it returns to the AI homeland, so I moved our border defense to cities hoping to encourage the Indian Archer to head for Hareid

IBT: Ottoman come calling wanting an MPP, but I trade them Navigation for WM + 7g – Ottoman move 1 LB & 3 spear to our land heading for Copenhagen - Indian Archer heading west for ??? – Rejkavik, Oslo & Stanvanger MA->MA

Turn 10 – 1450 AD – Block Indian Archer from continuing west – Send a couple units up to cut off Ottoman

Note: Stockholm is currently starving due to the Indian Archer standing on irrigated FP – Once he moves be sure to reassign a citizen to that tile.

Not much else to report – Keep an eye on those Ottoman units – I’m not sure what the Celts have been researching (hopefully espionage) it should be done soon

 

[Paul#42]

IBT: India sends an archer north
IBT: Indian Archer returns to India –
IBT: Indian Archer (2/3) kills one of our warriors
IBT: Indian Archer back to Aarhus to heal

As soon as an Indian unit is two tiles from Arhus we should surround him with Mech Infs and only leave one or two tiles open in the direction we want it to go. We should not lose any further Indian units. They are more valuable than our own

Keep an eye on those Ottoman units

We should surround them with slaves.

 

[pindicator]

Keep an eye on that domination limit, too. Looks like we're timing this pretty well for letting India start to expand.

 

[CKS]

Things sound good. I agree with jeff that Hareid sounds good for a next city for Ghandi. The possibility of him building a boat there is really enticing, since we'd like him to take Spain. We don't need to worry about him meeting the Ottomans, because they've already met. We just need to keep him away from the Celts.

 

[denyd]

Meeting the Celts isn't really an issue unless we intend to renew the ROP one more time. We've got about 15 turns left on the ROP. We need to finish research on Laser (3 turns) then research Robotics & Superconductor which should take 10-12 turns. If we decide to delay taking on the Celts until India takes Channel City, then we might want to renew the ROP one more time.

Just a discussion point: Any thoughts on a military strategy for taking on the Celts? Using ROP to pre-position troops is a given, but I thinking that taking out the Celtic core with the first strike might not be the best idea (unless we use nukes on them). Each core city will probably have 10-12 defenders. Does it make more sense to use 6+ Modern Armor Armies to sweep up from the southern tip of the Celtic island claiming (or razing) the cities as we move north. If we nuked the 6-7 largest Celtic cities we'd face limited resistance once we reached those cities. My only concern with this is that we might be to effective in capturing cities and reach the domination limit too easily and be forced into giving up cities.

Another thought, how about gifting the Ottoman one of those small islands and then taking their home island city. I have a minor concern that Osman might get a wild hair and either attack one our undefended cities or go after Gandhi.

As for the domination limit, we are about 50 tiles away and in about 10 turns a bunch of cities will reach the next culture expansion level. I did not look to see how many tiles we will be gaining, so that will need to be checked.

Does anyone know if any of the other teams has managed to finish this one via a Gandhi launch yet?

 

[Jove]

Ok, got it. I'll examine the save, I should play tomorrow afternoon. So far, looks like the dom limit is our main concern.
If we captured Smith's right away, it'd give a modest boost. From there we could raze the core, leave Brennus limping after the first strike... Well, I haven't decided yet. Do we want to keep Brennus alive?

 

[denyd]

Brennus seems to have picked a nice retirement home SE of his main island, so I'd let him live out his life down there. At that point in the game, it won't matter whether he lives or not. Same is true for Osman.

I'd like to make sure neuter Brennus before he gets flight. AI bombers can be a pain unless you have some fighers to reduce their numbers.

BTW: What size was Aarhus when we gifted it? Because it's size one now, which says that Gandhi has been busy pop rushing units.

Also I moved a pair of units in the city next to the Indian Archer in case he gets a terminal case of stupidity and attacks our Modern Armor. :suicide:

BTW: I didn't bother with a map posting as except for Aarhus border expansion, nothing has changed.

 

[pindicator]

Is it that close to me again already? Don't think it'll be a problem, but I won't be able to get to the game until Tuesday, so take your time Jove.

 

[Jove]

OK, I will, maybe Sunday or Monday. I'm always nervous about overlooking something and sinking the whole project for everyone... any more suggestions?

 

[TimBentley]

If we switch all the taxmen to scientists and rush universities in Rusicade and Karistad (probably just Rusicade would work), we should get the laser in 3 turns.
Edit: switching the taxmen and 3 civil engineers also gets the laser in 3.

 

[Paul#42]

I remember gifting °Arhus at size 12 but it lost 2 people every turn to size 6. I guess happiness problems and lack of food in despotism might have cost the rest...

But You did not want me to draft

 

[Jove]

Arrrr, I guess it didn't matter Ghandi would be miserable no matter what At some point do we want to consider forcing Ghandi to a capitol other than Aarhaus? Looks like its not so great now. And, does a city being an AI capitol in any way affect what is built?

 

[Paul#42]

At some point do we want to consider forcing Ghandi to a capitol other than Aarhaus? Looks like its not so great now. And, does a city being an AI capitol in any way affect what is built?

I don't think so.
1. moving again would lose lots of Indian units and time.
2. Getting Arhus back doesn't bring us too much benefit. We would have to join workers, build lib and uni and still suffer unhappiness from Gandhi's drafting.
3. A bigger distance to Channel City would mean more problems to time its capture.
4. Our core is supplied best for Indian production. E.g corrupt towns to the north don't have factories. Moving capital to north would spoil the effect of those buildings.

The only towns Gandhi could make better & faster use of are those food rich towns near flood plains. I'd like to let him take two of those soon if we can afford the drop in beakers.

Remember to sell culture buildings before letting him capture towns

 

[Paul#42]

I agree with jeff that Hareid sounds good for a next city for Ghandi.

I had to go back to page 19 post 367 for a screeny to view Hareid!

I don't think this is the best choice, Hareid is too productive for us imo.
I'd rather let him take Leptis Magna (which takes him ~7 more turns to walk if we can direct him). He could poprush quite fast there.

 

[TimBentley]

Keep in mind we want Gandhi to capture Channel City in 12 turns (one thing this means is not to worry about India and the Celts meeting). I'd recommend researching robotics next to save some money and build some universities so we can research superconductor in 4 turns (getting 2000bpt may require starvation in some corrupt cities). Letting them take Hareid would eliminate the possibility of researching superconductor in 4 turns; letting them take Bodo would be okay, I guess.

 

[Paul#42]

Keep in mind we want Gandhi to capture Channel City in 12 turns

Good call. I did not have in mind how close we are to let the dogs out. So letting Gandhi walk for another seven turns is too long. I'd even lose one turn of research to let Gandhi have a faster expansion. So I'm okay with Hareid.

 

[denyd]

In the 12 turns that Gandhi has had Aarhus, he's drafted the city from size 12 to size 1 and he's built at least 1 Archer. I'd bet he's probably building another archer at this time.

To review what's ahead:
Science:
MM to get the Laser in 3 (nice catch Tim)
Research Robotics (add MFG plant to Stockholm)
Research Superconductor
Research Espionage (we might be able trade for or steal this earlier)
Reduce research speed to build up cash (keep researching to SDI)
Military:
Continue to add MA Armies and move them to Celtic lands
Continue to add Bombers (and eventually Stealth Bombers) for Brennus
Espionage:
When spies available plant one in India & Celtic land.
India:
I'd like to keep Stockholm & Trondheim to pump out MA & Armies for a while, but every other city should be undefended and hopefully India will take the hint.

I'm still thinking about nuking the Celts.

 

[jeffelammar]

Just a thought to throw out there. We seem to be obsessed with 4 turn research. I actually think we'd be better served letting India take more territory. (As long as they aren't near to getting Education). Letting India take as many northern cities as he wants (like hareid or the other ones mentioned) might drop our research to 5 or 6 turns, but It would accellerate India's conquering of our homeland. I think that would be a valid tradeoff.