SGOTM 9 - jeffelammar

[CKS]

Jeff, you play. I think I'd better stick to my original skip request, as I haven't resolved my internet issues yet (actually, I seem to have new and different ones; what fun!), and the rest of my life has suddenly gotten hectic.

I don't think that reducing our culture growth rate will help, as it isn't all that large now; it is just the total that is high. On the other hand, if we want to switch governments, there is no reason not to.

Abandoning some cities to reduce overlap might be worth trying, though. We don't really have anything to lose, since we'll lose the cities anyway and Ghandi doesn't seem to want to keep them.

 

[jeffelammar]

Ok - I have it and will play tonight.

 

[jeffelammar]

Some sort of save

1800 AD - Turn 0 - Preflight
Do some rushing. Start a prebuild for SPHQ. Going to wait a couple turns before revolting. Since distance makes no difference in Communism, I put it near Entremont in a city that can get to prebuild status in 4 turns.

IBT - India razes Kazan, Leptis Major, Thunderfall
Entremont builds SDI.

1802 AD - Turn 1
Not much to report. Continue production toward SPHQ, 2 more turns till revolt.

Indians raze Utica, Svolvaer, Helsinki, Karakorum, One other I missed,

1804 AD - Turn 2
Move around, use new Modern Armors to rush improvements, don't want our military to be bigger.
Decide to spend some $$$ looking around...
Trondheim is building Mech Inf
Aarhus a Modern Armor...
Channel City a Destroyer..
Stavanger a Mech Inf...
India still has 9 grand, so no need to funnel money.

Indians raze New Bergen, Haugesund,
Indians take and keep Neu Bergen, Ta-tu

1806 AD - Turn 3
More of the same, planning to revolt next turn.

In an interesting Twist, Celts declare on India
India razes New Copenhagen, Edrine, Falun, Theveste, Keflavik, New Trondheim

1808 AD - Turn 4
What the hell, time to revolt... Draw 6 turns...

Celts want to trade world maps, agree for no good reason.
Indians kill our two warriors without having built a War Elephant.
They raze New Birka, Neu Stockholm
They are almost done taking our home, we just have 6 cities left there.

1810 AD - Turn 5
Ahh anarchy, that joyous time of starvation. Not much else to say.

WOW - They razed Istanbul, I certainly did not expect that. There goes the Hanging Gardens.
Then the insanity continues as they raze Sabratha with the SoZ. Both were obsolete, so It might make some sense.
Then the continue on and raze Neu Reykjavik.
Celtic borders expand to get our Uranium, They now have 2 each of Aluminum and Uranium, Check to see if they traded it. Oops forgot the war, hope they make nice soon.

1812 AD - Turn 6
Not a whole lot going on, with the homeland lost, it's time to work on getting things built the way we want them.

1814 AD - Turn 7
ZZZZZZZZ

India burns Rusicade to the ground.

1816-1818 AD - Turns 8, 9
Nothing more really to report.

We are now Communist.
1820 AD - Turn 10
Mostly put things back together, SPHQ due to finish next turn.
Currently have 10% Lux and am optimized toward science because I can. Even with 10% lux, we are doing more gpt than we were in Monarchy.

Because I was in Anarchy, I didn't do a lot of research into what India is up to.
Next person should probably take a look.
Wish this was Civ4 so I could bribe Brennus into making peace with Ghandi.

Now realize what a moron I am, I forgot to save the file. I go back, reload from Autosave and re-do 1820.

For what it's worth, India still has 9000+ gold, too bad Ghandi's such a moron.

 

[pindicator]

well, Ghandi is trying my patience. Can we nuke him now?

And if the Celts are at war with him, then once again he is without aluminum. Looks like we have to get India to take over those Celtic towns -- lead him towards Spain perhaps?

 

[Jove]

Nice job comrade.

I had another idea... we want to continue to give Ghandi slaves, right? Well, I've noticed that towns with a large foreign population produce foreign workers, er, slaves. If our captured towns haven't accepted the Celts as their countrymen yet, we could build quite a few and ship them over. It might even encourage him to taste the waters again, who knows.

And, if Ghandi is just going to raze our cities, maybe we really ought to disband the rest on that continent, as others have suggested. Maybe Ghandi will focus on something else. Probably he'll just get preoccupied with knitting his own undergarments

 

[Paul#42]

I had another idea... we want to continue to give Ghandi slaves, right? Well, I've noticed that towns with a large foreign population produce foreign workers, er, slaves. If our captured towns haven't accepted the Celts as their countrymen yet, we could build quite a few and ship them over.

Nice idea.

It might even encourage him to taste the waters again, who knows.

I can't follow that reasoning - why should he set sails? To get our slaves earlier?

And, if Ghandi is just going to raze our cities, maybe we really ought to disband the rest on that continent, as others have suggested. Maybe Ghandi will focus on something else. Probably he'll just get preoccupied with knitting his own undergarments

Without looking at the save I think we did already lose all towns on the continent, didn't we?

We should start to fight Brennus again to force those two to peace again so they can trade resources.
Obviously Gandhi is not interested to do useful things with our money so I don't see any sense in giving it to the Celts right now.
Maybe it's smarter to let them fight - but I do not trust Gandhi to invade Celtic land in the remaining ~200 turns

 

[jeffelammar]

First: There are only two cities left on the homeland, so abandoning them doesn't make sense to me.
EDIT: For those who can't look at the save, we just have two of our mountain ring cities left.

I was amazed at how STUPID the AI was. They would raze one of our cities. Then they would take the slaves and DISBAND them in a city. WHY?!?!? Slaves don't cost upkeep, WOW, I knew that the AI was dumb, but this is rediculous. I had a settler next to a city and I saw some 30-40 slaves disbanded there. The city was at pop 12 and just stayed there. No wonder we trounce the AI all the time.

We should start to fight Brennus again to force those two to peace again so they can trade resources.

1. This is an idea worth trying. We can always make peace in 7-8 turns.

Obviously Gandhi is not interested to do useful things with our money so I don't see any sense in giving it to the Celts right now.

Agreed.

Maybe it's smarter to let them fight - but I do not trust Gandhi to invade Celtic land in the remaining ~200 turns

I think he probably will invade at some point, especially if we leave cities unguarded in Spain.

Edit: In another AI stupidity note, He sent about 10 MA around the left of the mountain chain, while not advancing on the east at all. If we were defending this would have allowed us to concentrate defense, and in this case it delayed the capture of our last town by at least 8-10 turns.

 

[denyd]

I'm thinking we probably want settle the remaining islands and add an MI defender to each coastal city except in Spain. That might encourage Gandhi to expand to Spain and claim his own Uranium. Did he get any Aluminum on the home island?

Some day soon it might be time to take out the Celts. How are we going to do that if we can't get to Delhi?

One other thought do we still want to try the bait and switch with Gandhi on the Manhattan Project? If he builds it he will start his Golden Age and that might be the only way he'll ever get one. My thoughts would be to let him start it and once he passes the Apollo shield needs, build Manhattan in Entremont. Hopefully, he'll then pour the shields into Apollo.

 

[jeffelammar]

I'm thinking we probably want settle the remaining islands and add an MI defender to each coastal city except in Spain. That might encourage Gandhi to expand to Spain and claim his own Uranium. Did he get any Aluminum on the home island?

Agreed, only reason I didn't start the process was that most of my set was in anarchy.

Some day soon it might be time to take out the Celts. How are we going to do that if we can't get to Delhi?

I don't see where it would help us, but if we decide to take him down, we take a city on the Mountain chain and then use a couple Aircraft carriers and a Transport of Marines to take him down.

One other thought do we still want to try the bait and switch with Gandhi on the Manhattan Project? If he builds it he will start his Golden Age and that might be the only way he'll ever get one. My thoughts would be to let him start it and once he passes the Apollo shield needs, build Manhattan in Entremont. Hopefully, he'll then pour the shields into Apollo.

I don't think a GA for Ghandi will help us much, so I'd go with the bait and switch on Manhattan.
Even though we plan to play it out, the moment Ghandi builds Apollo will be the moment we are marked as "finished".

 

[denyd]

I was thinking about killing off the Celts to allow Gandhi easier access to the resources in old Spain (if he ever decides to build a transport).

As for him building the Apollo, it's a prerequisite for the SS parts anyway. Considering that a couple of teams posted saves at 2040 AD - Either they never got Gandhi to build Apollo or they kept going. My thinking is that if Gandhi builds Apollo then we at least have a chance that he'll build SS parts.

Maybe we should build Apollo and the first nine parts to spur him into action on the SS front. I don't know if there's any logic for him to decide to build SS parts based on another building SS parts.

 

[jeffelammar]

Maybe we should build Apollo and the first nine parts to spur him into action on the SS front. I don't know if there's any logic for him to decide to build SS parts based on another building SS parts.

We already have apollo, I think I built 1 SS parts.

As for Ghandi taking over spain, here is my plan
1. Leave some Armies and MAs in Spain.
2. Leave some of our coastal cities empty.
3. If Ghandi ever goes over there, we DOW celts and take back our cities.
4. Empty everything and let Ghandi take the cities there.
5. At that point, either destroy Celts or ignore them

 

[denyd]

Didn't we lose Apollo when Stockholm fell? Did it get rebuilt in Entremont? (I must have missed that). I like the rest of the plan.

 

[Jove]

I can't follow that reasoning - why should he set sails? To get our slaves earlier?

I guess I didn't explain that well. The idea was that if we're landing slaves on his shores all the time, maybe it would, y'know, draw his attention to the seas. I can't back that up with anything, it's just one more thing to try.

I'm taking notes on all your suggestions, I should be able to play tomorrow afternoon- unless CKS would like to jump back in. Building most of the ship itself seems like a good idea. I remember way back in GOTM7 I think it was, the Germans launched on me in the late 1900's when I had most of the ship built. I don't know if it was the deciding factor, but it certainly didn't stop them!

And to answer your question, denyd:

Apollo was built in Entremont.

 

[denyd]

I should have caught that as I kept noticing that SS parts were available.

Pretty soon we should drop science to zero as I see no reason to research Advanced Flight or Ironclads at anything above a 50 turn rate.

Here's a thought from left field: We declare on the Celts and take all his cities except Delhi and the Uranium city. Hopefully that will force him to sign peace with India and maybe cede the Uranium city to India. Then we can sign peace with the Celts and give him those cities back.

One other idea would be to re-settle the island east of Channel City and not defend it. That might convince Gandhi to build a transport to capture it.

BTW: What are the benefits and losses of Fascism? I've never used that government.

 

[Paul#42]

Pretty soon we should drop science to zero as I see no reason to research Advanced Flight or Ironclads at anything above a 50 turn rate.

D'accord.

Here's a thought from left field: We declare on the Celts and take all his cities except Delhi and the Uranium city. Hopefully that will force him to sign peace with India and maybe cede the Uranium city to India. Then we can sign peace with the Celts and give him those cities back.

I do not think he would give a city with any resource to a rival that has not even taken one single town (or unit) yet.

One other idea would be to re-settle the island east of Channel City and not defend it. That might convince Gandhi to build a transport to capture it.

Nice idea.

 

[TimBentley]

We could give cities on our original continent to the Celts so India can capture them (how well defended would a settler/worker pair landing on the continent have to be?).

 

[jeffelammar]

We could give cities on our original continent to the Celts so India can capture them (how well defended would a settler/worker pair landing on the continent have to be?).

We only have two of these, but this makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[CKS]

I do not think he would give a city with any resource to a rival that has not even taken one single town (or unit) yet.

Well, I wouldn't, but in a GOTM a while back, where we were isolated from the rest of the world, I remember several people getting involved in wars they couldn't participate in and getting cities in peace deals. (It has never happened to me, though.) However, getting a city with a resource seems unlikely.

 

[Jove]

No, having a resource in the town's boundaries increases it's value too much for it to be given, AFAIK. But maybe a neighboring town would be a springboard for conquest later, in the next 100 turns or so. Hopefully the trade embargo doesn't prevent that...
I'll try resettling the island by CC and see what happens.
Sorry for the delay folks. I have tonight off, so I'll have a save for you within a few hours.

EDIT: Hey, if we're going to do the Manhattan/Apollo bait-and-switch with Ghandi, how about we build The Manhattan Project in a city we feel comfortable abandoning (After Ghandi gets uranium, if ever). No nukes dammit!

 

[jeffelammar]

EDIT: Hey, if we're going to do the Manhattan/Apollo bait-and-switch with Ghandi, how about we build The Manhattan Project in a city we feel comfortable abandoning. No nukes dammit!

I thought the plan was to have 200 nukes to bomb Ghandi back to the stone age if he doesn't launch by the 2050


Seriously though, I think this is a good idea since it reduces the temptation for Ghandi to waste time starting a Nuke War.