SGOTM 9 - jeffelammar

[denyd]

If were going to let the Celts come visit we'll need to eliminate Carthage first so no knowledge of India gets out. We are getting close to Printing Press which allows contact trading so it was probably time for Carthage to go anyway. Rather than sign peace with Mongols, let's just take a deep breath and then wipe him out.

As for markets, markets=more $ and more $=more research. I'd like to see us be able to build Smith's during our GA but I don't want to sidetrack research for economics. As I see it Banking is a good next choice for research then Physics and on to ToG.

At last check the Ottoman core was not very big, so once the Mongols are gone they make an inviting target, but Carthage has to go bye-bye first.

 

[Paul#42]

If were going to let the Celts come visit we'll need to eliminate Carthage first so no knowledge of India gets out. We are getting close to Printing Press which allows contact trading so it was probably time for Carthage to go anyway. Rather than sign peace with Mongols, let's just take a deep breath and then wipe him out..

Are you sure that Cartaghe already met India?
That is indicated reliably by missing or available peace/war - connection in foreign advisor, isn't it?
Maybe it's enough to get their "ring town" and wipe out Ghengis first...

As for markets, markets=more $ and more $=more research. I'd like to see us be able to build Smith's during our GA but I don't want to sidetrack research for economics. As I see it Banking is a good next choice for research then Physics and on to ToG..

I see ourselves at 100% research until the modern Ages. By that time we want markets and banks for India but we will have nothing else to build by then... So I see no benefit from more markets or even banks (except for one in Channel City maybe) by now.

 

[CKS]

Marketplaces bring happiness, too, but I agree that universities first is better here since we will run close to 100% science the whole game.

 

[denyd]

I think you're right about the India not knowing Carthage yet, but I'd like to get that ringed Carthage city taken/razed before India makes contact.

 

[jeffelammar]

I think you're right about the India not knowing Carthage yet, but I'd like to get that ringed Carthage city taken/razed before India makes contact.

I concur. You only get contact by seeing units, so it is possible that that hasn't happened. (Remember SGOTM 7 where we had borders with the Arabs for a long time, but no contact)

I also agree on not detouring our research to grab Economics. If we trade the AIs up to Banking they'll research it for us quick and we can have a prebuild in place for it...

Question: Where is India research wise now? It's looking like we might be able to GL Elevator them all the way through the IA and into the Modern if we keep like we are. (We will have to defend our cities once they get MM though.)

 

[TimBentley]

We don't know whether Carthage and India have contact now since we're at war with both of them, but they didn't in 250 AD (I would guess they still don't). On the other hand the Ottomans and India know each other (and have a ROP, as if that would be useful).

India lacks writing, mysticism, HBR, and currency.

 

[pindicator]

I'm going to need a skip for the near future guys. Things are getting a little hectic between unpacking, the holiday season and now my job security is looking shaky enough to warrant me needing to take time to update and send out resumes. I mean, it's 10pm now and I should be heading to bed yet it's the first I've gotten to even think of Civ.

Sorry

 

[Paul#42]

Sorry for your turbulences, we hope everything turns out well.
So with pindicator skipped, it's up to TimBentley.

Jove <== Just Played
pindicator <== skipped
TimBentley <== UP
Paul#42 <== ready to go
CKS
denyd
jeffelammar

 

[Jove]

Looks like I beat the virus. Ready for action.

Pindicator- That's too bad. Hope you can still give some advice.

Yeah, after I made that comment at the beginning of my set, I ended up using them that way quite a bit. Those cities couldn't grow at more than +1 fpt. At that point a Sci often sounds better.

I remembered your comment when I noticed you'd left a few of them active. Looks like we had the same experience with these guys.
btw- nice Sir Pleb example. That guy sure makes sense Still, if the FP is just too far away, it doesn't do much. That happened to me during the AAC game, cotm 5 or 6... Maybe for different reasons than I originally thought.

-Sorry to slow down Cope's by a turn. I'll look at the big picture next time.

-Considering the time limits on taking control of our continent, maybe we ought to sacrifice a few turns on Banking in order to upgrade caravels, get a harbor in the west, purchase zerks and pikes, etc, and just take 'em out. Total max science wins xotm's, but this one is different. At 0% science we earn 329g, at 20%, 281g. With some careful sliding we could make a lot of money and only lose a few turns... The leftover military will be useful against the likes of Spain... And we're pretty wimpy right now... The side benefit is it would give the Celts a few more turns to learn Gunpowder for us. Yea or nay?

And, west of Karakorum, with no food bonus, looks like a good isolation point for Otto. We don't have an RoP with them, we can kick 'em out if they wander toward the coast. If we destroy Carthage while we're allied against them with Otto, will it hurt our rep? It'll cancel the whole deal (Otto-51gpt, ally v Cart)? We may want to patrol the seas to see if contact is coming or can be prevented.

 

[Paul#42]

-Considering the time limits on taking control of our continent, maybe we ought to sacrifice a few turns on Banking in order to upgrade caravels, get a harbor in the west, purchase zerks and pikes, etc, and just take 'em out. Total max science wins xotm's, but this one is different. At 0% science we earn 329g, at 20%, 281g. With some careful sliding we could make a lot of money and only lose a few turns... The leftover military will be useful against the likes of Spain... And we're pretty wimpy right now... The side benefit is it would give the Celts a few more turns to learn Gunpowder for us. Yea or nay?

Not sure. I'll take a look at home. If Tim started by then - his decision.

And, west of Karakorum, with no food bonus, looks like a good isolation point for Otto. We don't have an RoP with them, we can kick 'em out if they wander toward the coast.

Inland sites are best to control. Oh yeah, kick 'em out, make them dow and get some cheap war happiness and promotions

If we destroy Carthage while we're allied against them with Otto, will it hurt our rep? It'll cancel the whole deal (Otto-51gpt, ally v Cart)? We may want to patrol the seas to see if contact is coming or can be prevented.

The combined deal is definitely cancelled then. Don't think we would get a rep hit for that but the 51gpt is enough argument...
Maybe some pirates are in order when we can build them...

 

[TimBentley]

Got it. I'll consider slowing research. Breaking our MA by killing Carthage would be a rep hit. IIRC it would take 3 or so ships to block the intercontinental route after astronomy.

 

[CKS]

It sounds like a blockade of the sea routes could be easy to arrange and buy us a few more turns of no contact. I'd like to let the alliance run out before we destroy the last bits of Carthage, as that 51 gpt is really nice. Then we can take care of the Ottomans, and west of Karakorum sounds fine to me.

I'm open to gaining a little cash, as we do have some things to rush and upgrade.

 

[TimBentley]

I've only had time to attack with one unit so far. We want a berserk army, right?

 

[denyd]

Yes (great job, btw) but only load 2 Berserks into it if want to load it into a caravel (need to wait for galleons before loading a 3 berserk).

Second MGL is for the FP unless it's pretty close to completion. We might want to switch the FP city to the Heroic Epic and the use a second MGL to rush the FP.

 

[Jove]

Nice way to start your turns!
Yeah, I think we all want a berserk army. I'd say go ahead and load it up... we'll have Magnetism pretty soon really... And, Cap'n Obvious' advice: take the Great Wall from Carthage!

FP vs. Heroic Epic? The FP is just turns away... might as well hand build it.

 

[denyd]

Jove: My thought was that if we get a 2nd MGL, then after the Army gets a win, to switch the FP to Heroic Epic and since the HE costs less than the FP it will finish immediatly. Then we use the new MGL to hurry the FP.

 

[TimBentley]

350(0): It looks like we'd need more than 10 ships to block intercontinental meeting once astronomy is known
0% science for this turn at least
some MM

IBT: Channel City Copernicus->university
Oslo horse->berserk
Karasjok lib->rax
Fauske worker->rax

360(1): war happiness ran out, lux to 10%
berserk kills spear to capture Karakorum, get MGL, create army
FP actually costs same as HE
science to 90%
rush caravel

IBT: Reykjavik horse->berserk
Molde aqueduct->harbor
Alesund caravel->worker
Tromso caravel->worker
Vadso worker->worker
Farsund spear->harbor
Risor rax->pike
Hammerfest harbor->temple

370(2): two berserks kill 2 NuMercs to capture Rusicade

380(3): kill spear in Ta-Tu

IBT: Stockholm rax->berserk
Aarhus berserk->berserk
Alesund worker->worker

390(4): kill spear to capture Ta-Tu, worker
Carthage had captured their other city, so Mongols are destroyed
manage to hire enough scientists for 60% research
lux to 0% since we got spices (coastal Stavanger citizen turned into scientist)

IBT: learn banking
Trondheim university->berserk
Molde harbor->university
Fauske rax->berserk

400(5): Celts learn gunpowder, buy it for banking, 58g
there is saltpeter connected by Fauske, between Leptis Magna and Tabriz and Honningsvag (in neutral territory), by NEmost Carthage city, near Carthage, by Izmit, by Atlanta; Celts have saltpeter connected
100% research on chemistry
capture Leptis Minor

IBT: Birka pike->court
Karasjok rax->harbor

410(6): capture Almarikh
partial rush a berserk

IBT: Carthage longbowman kills Ottoman longbowman
Risor pike->aqueduct

420(7): more lost war happiness, lux to 10%

IBT: Carthage longbowman kills another Ottoman longbowman, I assume
Trondheim berserk->berserk
Reykjavik berserk->berserk
Oslo berserk->berserk
Odense aqueduct->harbor
Fauske berserk->berserk
Entremont builds Leo's

430(8): zzz

IBT: learn chemistry, start on physics
Aarhus berserk->university
Svolvaer worker->settler

440(9): lost two berserks at Carthage
partial rush berserk
rush harbor in Leptis Minor (for silks)

IBT: Leptis Minor harbor->worker
Stavanger FP->market
Bodo court->aqueduct
Tromso worker->harbor

450(10): just noticed Trondheim has no barracks, switch it to Heroic Epic (6 turns)

Notes: Channel City should start a Newton's prebuild after the university (may want to rush a market there)
Aarhus and Bergen need markets so lux can go to 0%
I've left the army in Almarikh unmoved for the next player (it's only got two units, but only because berserks were used elsewhere)
the galley by Risor already dropped off a NuMerc
astronomy is worth roughly 675g to Celts (so I assume they've got roughly 325g to go)
Celts would buy chemistry for chivalry, 11g, 1gpt, but that's not a good deal right now
it looks like Celts would choose printing press next
I'm not sure the Celts could finish astronomy, printing press, and magnetism before we finish physics, ToG, and metallurgy; we could let them research democracy after printing press

Here is the save.

 

[denyd]

THE MONGOLS ARE GONE

More comments later after some

 

[Jove]

400(5): Celts learn gunpowder, buy it for banking, 58g

So, everything went well?

 

[Paul#42]

Great progress!!

350(0): It looks like we'd need more than 10 ships to block intercontinental meeting once astronomy is known

I'd suggest to rather build some privateers - agreed?

astronomy is worth roughly 675g to Celts (so I assume they've got roughly 325g to go)
Celts would buy chemistry for chivalry, 11g, 1gpt, but that's not a good deal right now
it looks like Celts would choose printing press next

Without civilopedia at hand - isn't printing press optional? I'd like to trade chemistry to them to let them research metallurgy soon while we go for physics? I'd trade it right now, any cons?

A second leader (if we are blessed) I would like to use for a second berserk army. Those two would get us any coastal city in one single turn before riflemen show up.