SGOTM 9 - klarius

I just saw something in the 850AD save, which raises some concern and I didn't think about it up to now.
In the Mongol-Ottoman war it looks like Edrine was razed by the Mongols.
Now the question is what did the ugly-one smoke to bring him to raze this nice city.
And what can we do to that Gandhi doesn't come to the same conclusion with all the nice cities we want him to have.
Theories flying around on CFC say it has to do mainly with flip risk.
But that doesn't really fit well with my experiences, which look more like pretty random, with more likelyhood when they have a lot cities and maybe when they are not able to put in defenders right away.
 
Another break, after the ever-enjoyable post-GA micromanagement :D, and some more questions for the team. We've reached (910 AD) the point at which it might be simpler to fight the Mongols than to go through them to what's left of the Ottomans (the Mongols having taken Istanbul). To do so, though, we'd have to break our anti-Ottoman alliance with Genghis, and the anti-Indian alliance for which we gave him three luxuries at the start of my round. We'd also have a choice of whether to RoP-rape the Mongols or not (doing it would certainly help us get our Berserks into the action), since that agreement is about to expire. So, does any of this matter now?

Also, we have a Great Leader. I hope to avoid using him for an army, since we'll soon have as many armies as we want from Entremont. My inclination is to have him rush a factory in the town we've just founded to build Hoover, but if anyone has a fiendishly clever :satan: alternative, speak up.
 
agree to better use the MGL for a factory. We don't really need many armies, do we? Especially at this point of the game.

As for RoP rape, well not a fan of that, but it's all about speed anyway.
 
My opinion:
Kill the Mongols if you like. Probably best to make peace with Osman already (sounds like not much left of his empire).

I would prefer to keep our RoP reputation, so we can freely move in Spain, if we need a quick action there at some time.

Leader for an important factory sounds fine. The next armies we really would need should probably be filled with modern armor (again Spain, much later).
 
klarius said:
My opinion:
I would prefer to keep our RoP reputation, so we can freely move in Spain, if we need a quick action there at some time.

I also would keep the RoP reputation option for Spain
 
Lurker: You guys are still in Monarchy? I don't think war weariness is a factor when no blows are being dealt. But with 170 workers, the republic boost would be smallish. Edit: just saw the tech rate; it's impressive.
 
850 (0): Building universities before factories looks odd, but I suppose it's the right call here.

We bring the Mongols into the war with India, as suggested by Klarius, for three luxuries.


860 (1): That heroic Numidian accounts for another of our cav units, but we then take Carthage (1-1). We capture three workers.

We found Hooverville between Stockholm and Odense.

Our Berserkers go 4-0 against swordsmen in Delhi (5-1). A swordsman is still on top for Gandhi.

We found New Odense. This is the only city I'm going to found around Spanish New York, since the other possible sites are within New York's 21 tiles.

We begin ferrying slaves from Celtland to our homeland.

By flooding Carthage with units for the safe interturn, after building rails as necessary, we end the resistance immediately.

Entremont factory --> coal plant.


870 (2): The Indians have Map Making. [party]

Steel due in one turn with research down to 20%.

We found New Hareid on Vitoria's island.

We repel the attacks of two Carth longbowmen outside Utica (7-1).

Steel --> Refining, due in four turns at 90% with a modest surplus.


880 (3): We take Utica from its garrison of a musketman and three Numidians, without loss (11-1). We capture two workers, and a moment later two more outside the city.

We end Utica's resistance immediately, by the same methods used at Carthage.

Entremont coal plant --> Military Academy.

Bergen factory --> coal plant.


890 (4): Hmm, Isabella is actually doing something about our anti-Carthaginian alliance, and has three units around Hippo. So I abandon the idea of waiting a turn to make our last attacks on Hannibal with elite Berserkers, and we take Hippo from its garrison of three Numidians with mobile units, eliminating the "Fragile Carthaginians" (14-1).

Hareid university --> galleon.


900 (5): Gems from Isabella (renewal) for 73 gpt, then Industrialization to Isabella for 167 gpt, 11 gold, and WM.

We take Uskudar from the Ottomans, getting there just before the Mongol cavalry, since the garrison was down to one spearman (15-1). We capture a trebuchet.

Aarhus courthouse --> library.

Our GA ends, but we're still on schedule for Refining.

All resistance in Uskudar ends.


910 (6): The Ottomans having managed a one-unit landing in Celtland, we overrun their longbowman (16-1) and generate the Great Leader Hubba.

OK, I'll wait to attack the Mongols without RoP-raping them. Preserving that option for Spain makes sense.

We found New Molde, the first ICS city on our continent.

Trondheim coal plant --> worker (food box full).

Refining --> Combustion, due in four turns at 100%, 40 gpt after some more fiddling with our specialists.


920 (7): We declare war on the Mongols, with extreme treachery but no RoP-rape.

Hubba rushes a factory in Hooverville.

We take Mongol Almarikh, held by a musketman, a cav, and a spearman (19-1). We capture two workers.

We take Mongol Kazan without loss from two musketmen and a pikeman, with the RNG being kind, since these are unsupported cav attacks (22-1).

We found the tactical town of New Alesund, capturing three Mongol workers in the area.

The Mongols take Iznik and Aydin (on the island) from the Ottomans, though they fail to take Bursa. They don't attack us.

Molde marketplace -->university.

Trondheim coal plant --> cav.


930 (8): We take Mongol Ta-tu, defeating the garrison of a musketman, a pikeman, and a longbowman and losing a cav (25-2). We capture four workers.

We found New Bodo and New Karasjok, two ICS towns on our continent.

I merge three workers into Vadso to bring it up to size twelve. We should have done this some time ago.

Isabella demands our spare incense, which we grant. She could only have given 4 spt for it.

Entemont MILITARY ACADEMY --> marketplace.

Tromso factory --> coal plant.


940 (9): We take Karakorum, held by three musketmen and a pikeman, for the loss of two Berserkers (29-4).

We found the tactical town of New Tromso, then take Mongol Tabriz, held by a musketman and two pikemen, without loss (32-4). We capture a cannon and three workers.

We found the tactical town of New Vadso and take Ulaanbaatar from its garrison of two musketmen and an LB, without loss (35-4). We capture a worker.

We ride down a Mongol cav outside Ta-tu (36-4).

The Ottomans are down to one city--Izmit, rather oddly, which at least we're in a good position to protect--so we grant them peace (on strictly even terms, Klarius ;) ).

I merge a worker into Stockholm and two into Hooverville.

We found the ICS cities of New Farsund and New Risor.

Entremont marketplace --> Heroic Epic, Bergen coal plant --> worker (full food box), Birka factory --> coal plant, Odense library --> courthouse, Bodo university --> factory.


950 (10): Research down to 80%, Combustion still due in one.

We auto-raze Dalandzadgad, but the garrison of one musketman costs us a cav (37-5).

We take Mongol Istanbul, held by a pikeman (38-5), and capture Leonardo.

We take Mongol Bursa, held by a Keshik and a cav (40-5).

After some heroic combat railing, we take Iznik, the last Mongol city on our continent, from its garrison of an LB and an MDI (42-5). We gain control of Magellan, and capture a trebuchet. Our first victory produces the GL Erik Bloodaxe, who rushes Molde's university.

We found the ICS cities of New Fauske and New Karistad.

We carve up the last two Mongol pikemen on our continent (44-5).

Eighteen elite victories this round, one of them defensive, produced two Great Leaders.
 
First, we have to start watching the domination limit. We're at 83% population, 62% territory. We'll probably want to start abandoning cities which mostly control low-food tiles--Bursa and Ulaanbaatar, for example--before long. The last thing we should do now is build structures which will give our coastal science cities cultural expansions, because we don't want a lot of two-food (at best) water tiles counting towards our 66%. For the same reason, we shouldn't try to settle the tundra island south of Vitoria.

The Mongols are down to three cities on the eastern island, and eliminating them should be trivial. Our ship chain is in a good position to land units on their island. All our ships still have their movement, so the next player can start setting this up as he sees fit. If you decide just to operate the ship chain normally, the three settlers in Seattle should move to our home continent.

Our ship chain is a little ragged at the Seattle end, but it can convoy three units every turn. I haven't adjusted it for our recent acquisition of Magellan.

Our lands on Entremont's continent are completely developed to support science camps, except that work isn't quite finished on one tile near Agedincum. :mad: :lol: So for some time to come we're going to have many more workers than we need over there, and tedious though it is, we should use them to lumberjack up some useful items. I'd suggest galleons first, which could then carry some workers to our nearby island cities. I didn't want to disrupt the ship chain for this purpose.

We have room for another 10-20 cities in the ICS zone on our home continent. Some of my foundations this round (in particular New Tromso, which is on olives) were tactically based, and we can abandon them for better ICS if we want.

The cities we've recently taken from the Carthaginians, Mongols, and Ottomans represent a valuable source of neutral slaves for future population manipulations. I have most of these towns set up to produce workers without population growth, so that our own citizens won't confuse the process. If we want to do something else with these cities, that's fine; but it should be a conscious choice, not the result of automatic micromanagement for growth.

The Ottomans and the Americans have one city each, so we need to keep an eye on them, though the former, entirely surrounded by our territory, are pretty safe. We could of course gift the Ottomans a second city at some point and then take Izmit, if we crave its fertile lands.

Do we still intend to take Delhi? If so, we need to be aware that we only have four Berserkers; we'll lose the ability to build them when we get RP from Isabella; and we could only get marines by detouring to an optional tech.

As that implies, the Spanish haven't discovered RP yet. Our furs deal with Isabella will expire in two turns.

We can research every tech we can see in four turns, with some spare capacity. We're about to discover Combustion, after which we'll need to adjust the science rate and our specialists, of course. The way to find the taxmen is to work backward from Trondheim in the city cycle.

Bergen and Reykjavik are micromanaged unusually because they're about to complete their builds. Reyk should start a coal plant next.

Our railway through the rim mountains has almost reached Vadso. We have a short ship chain starting in Oslo in case we have to reinforce Farsund quickly.

Our army is healing in Trondheim, and three Berserkers in Birka.

We have three cannon stacked beneath a Berserker near New Alesund.
 
Hey 4 turn research! How about that ;). Ive got it but havent checked into it yet. Looks like some relatively boring turns ahead bc NP had all the fun :lol:. Izmit looks like a safe home for Osman.

I plan on medicine-sanitation-sci method, and bank up some gold with the excess we have.

Also on the list is building more berserks, I think 12-15 would give us plenty of flexibility, both India and Spain wise.

And Ill try to shore up the ship chain.
 
Well, looks good :goodjob: .

A few unsorted ;) remarks:
Kill Mongols in the next few turns, but keep Ottomans around. No use to capture the Mongol island, we have already more land than we can afford to keep for long (Internet will lead to culture expansion everyhwere on the home continent).
A little bit settling to use food is fine, but the former Ottoman land in the north is already to much.
I would gift excess cities (maybe also the islands around scienceland) to Spain, when we get in trouble with domination limit.

It's too late for Delhi to be of any use for us. So Gandhi will probably keep it. Don't delay buying RP, but keep the existing berserks around.
I don't see that we need any more military until tanks come around and even then it's doubtful.

No use building ships. We have lots and if we upgrade a few to transports (available next turn), we have all the capacity we will need. Maybe later a few fighting ships, but currently I see no need.

I wouldn't build slaves now, but keep the foreign population. As soon as we can buy RP (hopefully in the next few turns), we should use engineers to build a bit infrastructure (courthouses, markets) for Gandhi.

There is still a lot to do for workers. All of the home continent should get improved (even outside our current culture). So most of the workers should go home.
And I still think there should be a work gang in Spain to change mines into irrigation around Madrid.

Science:
I would do medicine->sanitation next. Will work easily in 4 turns each. Entremont, the rim cities and Bodo should (pre-) build hospitals.
 
A bit more:
I think we should research mass production before scientific method. Starting ToE has time, but commercial docks are important.

No ships on Indian Cove. Don't scare Gandhi. I'm still not sure what else we can do to get him to build ships.

Gift a city on our island to Spain (maybe Bursa), so Isa can move her units there, instead of blocking our movement.

I'm now a bit partial about how to acquire RP. If Spain doesn't get it next turn (in which case we should trade for it right away), it may be best to gift them up to combustion right away (acquire nationalism in the process).
Save some money, while doing medicine and sanitation. Then buy it with medicine and gold and get the gold back with sanitation.
It's a bit late for Spain to do communism and flight before we enter MA ( we are pretty fast :cool: for a monarchy, aren't we). So giving them the chance to leave out communism (or fascism which they might do alternatively) may be needed.
There is still hope that they finally complete Bach and are then able to do both.
 
klarius said:
And I still think there should be a work gang in Spain to change mines into irrigation around Madrid.

Yes. I never had ships in the right position for this project, but we should definitely do it.
 
A quick update, Spain finally got Bachs, and Ive set them on the path to flight. I should have the rest done by tonight.
 
Preturn

Open up and take everything in. Sell barracks in 4 former Mongol cities.

Change some scientists to taxmen for the overrun on combustion.

Turn 1

Combustion in. Adjust scientists for medicine in 4 at 40% rate. We are at +365 gold per.

No RP for spain.

Upgrade some galleons to transports. The ship chain is going to be messed up until I can upgrade these galleons and sort them all out.

IT

Spain builds Bachs.

Turn 2

Lose an elite berserk on an indian regular spear. The other two elites win. 2-1.

Land the knight army and elite MDI in Mongolia.

Lots of workering and bringing back a huge number of workers from Celtia.

50 tiles under domination.

Corporation for furs, WM, 20 gold. Isabella is denied on attempting to give us 100 gpt.

Steel and Refining for nationalism. Gift Combustion.

Turn 3

Kill another spear in delhi. Ok Ill stop pestering him now.

Kill 2 pikes with the army in Mongolia. Elite MDI kills a longbow. Army kills another longbow. 5 cavalry chained over kill one mongol cav and position for an attempt to end the Mongols next turn.

Gift Isabella the tundra city of Iznik.

I count 22 turns until MA (if flight from spain), rush coal plant in Reyk to time the prebuild, it can be slowed considerably via water tiles if we feel they will not get flight in time. It could have waited until next turn but I like some leeway with pollution and whatnot. Its set up for 50 shields even.


Spain has RP.

Set Entremont to an army to disband somewhere.

Turn 4

Ship chain is almost set up. Operation irrigate Madrid will start soon as well.

Take another mongol town and they are an OCC. No losses. I am being pretty leisurely in taking them out. Im not devoting any more troops to the project.

Short rush coal plant with market in Hooverville to get it in 4 turns even.

Turn 5 (1000 AD)

Mongols destroyed.

Medicine in, set to Sanitation. Medicine for RP is no go of course, but mass prod will get it. San in 4 at +401 gpt, with 644 banked.

Some hospital prebuilds are going on in multiple cities. We are a bit short on troops, Ill try to remedy that.

Gift Isabella 4 luxs in deals that expired. She is furious for some reason?

Turn 6

There are two rail-and-irrigate work forces in the home land so named. Ill probably add a third.

Pollution struck Entremont on the coal; we need to keep several over there for just such a reason. Army is due in 1 there.

Turn 7

Army produced, workers have arrived in Spain and there is a ship chain set up there.

I have founded 6 new cities in the last few turns, mostly on hills when I see them. These things need to grow, I think we're set on workers for now until we want to produce more for India.

Turn 8

Killer 7 founded in the desert.

Lots of workering. The workers are going to need to be reallocated again if we get RP soon (and get our gold back w/ sanitation).

Turn 9

Sanitation is in. Spain is close to a deal for RP +1500 gold. I'll let the next player pull that one.

We are 12 tiles from domination limit, keep a close eye on that. Our towns to the North are pushing that limit and we will need to get rid of some things closer to the Internet.

Killer 8 & 9 founded.

Turn 10

The army is unmoved for the next person to decide what to do with it.

Spain is still close to a deal on RP and 1729 gold.

I forgot to switch Entremont over to a hospital, it will be done next turn and feel free to join some workers. Pollution hit Entremont again as well.

There is a musket in Spain blocking the last tile to irrigate. 4 of those workers can come home while the others wait to irrigate that tile.

I disbanded Bursa to bring us to 23 tiles under the limit.

Some workers have resumed roading around the rim. There is pollution near Farsund but no big deal.

2 cavalry and the knight army are waiting on the Mongol island for a ride back home.

I miscounted on Reyk's prebuild, and it has been set a bit slower and may need to be slower still nearer to the MA and TOE.
 
I'm glad you irrigated Madrid's mines. I count another fourteen or so mined flatland tiles in Spain, and as far as I can see we might as well irrigate them too. We could even chop down Madrid's forest :lol:, unless that counts as an aggressive act.

Isabella is furious with us and our army is weak relative to hers. That could get ugly in a hurry. Entremont should produce one-turn riflemen (and then infantry) after its hospital until it has to begin a Wonder pre-build.

Vadso has claimed its three whale tiles from Delhi--which might have been good news once, but now may just make it even less likely that the Indians will ever build a boat. :rolleyes: Anyway, we need to MM Vadso to use the whales.

New Hareid on Vitoria's island would be a good next candidate for abandonment or gifting.
 
I can play tomorrow night, had no time to check the save so far. Anything particular you guys want me to do?
 
We cant chop the forest but why not irrigate the rest of her tiles, that sounds like a good plan. We know she has infantry/rubber and probably has all the space resources handy.

Heres the kicker: how are we going to get India aluminum or another required space resource if there is a lack of it on the home continent? I dont trust Gyathaar.... and that could delay everything. Probably just idle speculation on my part.

On the whale tiles, I missed that, but I did notice that Oslo will steal more of Delhi's commerce tiles in about 20-25 turns.

I might not have unloaded workers on the home continent yet. Please check the transport at the end of the ship chain to make sure there arent more to be put to use.

Another thought, if you dont mind Ronald change that incorrect prebuild in Reykjavik to a hospital, and restart it.
 
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