SGOTM 9 - klarius

[Obormot]

Eh, Obormot, we learned the final space tech in 1425.
Now if we take into account the detour to sanitation, which the Wacken's didn't take it's about the same.

Oops , i don't know where that 1425 came from, maybe it is the date i projected when i didn't take sanitation into account or maybe i hoped to get one more tech from Spain.

And I still don't see the big mistake in monarchy. We were a little bit late to the IA, but that was more a question of suboptimal play IMO, than the government. Through ancient and medieval we would have payed a lot more unit support cost and lux tax (we did pay even in monarchy).

Well, i agree that we played suboptimally, first of all i think that we grown our cities too slowly (for me the golden rule in research games is grow to size12 first, then build stuff, but we sometimes slowed growth down to get that lib or market built sooner - a mistake imho, but argueable though) and another mistke was that we invested too much gold into long-term stuff (by stopping research and rushing libs, settlers, etc. And then the gained long-term effect was actually wasted because we were researching in 4 turns at just 30% science at some moments). But i still think that monarchy was a mistake that slowed us down about as much as stuff i metioned above. I don't think that the unit support outweighs the commerce bonus, remember that we had a lot of MP and fought wars with lots of cheap units instead of few expensive ones.

We did all IA techs except 2 and all MA techs in 4 turns each. Now, sure republic would have given more money in that time, but for what ?

Well, 4-turn IA only means that our IA in monarchy came too late

 

[Obormot]

I'm sorry we didn't give you a more interesting game, but the AI's failure to take advantage of your best efforts speaks volumes for its stupidity. Let's hope the next game will give you more excitement.

Well, for the most part the game was fun and i think you did a good job, it is only the latest turnsers that were frustrating because Gandhi played so stupidly.

 

[klarius]

I put a short note into the spoiler thread, so every team member is free to spam this thread.

 

[Ronald]

I put a short note into the spoiler thread, so every team member is free to spam this thread.

Nice write-up Klarius. I think nobody else spotted the 2-turn settler factory.

 

[Ronald]

No parts built and result is a humilating time victory for Scandinavia. .

That's too bad. I did not think that this would happen. Stupid AI
Anyway, besides some sloppy play in the beginning I think we did a decent job. Thanks guys, was again a pleasure to play with you.

Now let's just sit and watch if Wacken can get Gandhi to make Apollo earlier than he did in our game.

 

[Gyathaar]

Btw.. if you didnt notice.. Team Peanut had Ghandi build Apollo in same year as you

 

[killercane]

And I still don't see the big mistake in monarchy. We were a little bit late to the IA, but that was more a question of suboptimal play IMO, than the government.
Through ancient and medieval we would have payed a lot more unit support cost and lux tax (we did pay even in monarchy).
We did all IA techs except 2 and all MA techs in 4 turns each. Now, sure republic would have given more money in that time, but for what ?

It is tough to say. We entered the MA in 630 bc by getting currency from the Celts, Wacken in 490 via self research. But they had a 9 turn anarchy, so we were about even really, maybe we were a bit ahead since we self researched monarchy. I dont remember when we researched lit.

They entered IA in 630 AD, and us in 700 AD. So there were the turns where they made up ground w/ republic. But there are numerous variables that went into that. We relied a lot more on the AIs via Klarius' plan and they did help out quite a bit. Without sanitation we would have beaten them to the end of the tech tree, but even as it stands if we had started the Indian takeover plan a bit sooner we would have had them in position to take over Carthage at just the right time.

I thought we werent cohesive as a team at first, but looking at other team threads they had more cohesion problems than we did. It was fun and enjoyable regardless.

 

[ThERat]

The reason why we were getting techs later was due to the fact that with monarchy we decided to rely on the other Civ's. Our plan overall was nice but with India incapable of making use of the cities we nurtured for him, it was all but wasted effort. We stopped research for some turns to build up infra, that prooved to be unnecessary.
As killercane mentioned, some team issues here as well, but then it's an SG, if we want to play with 1 mind, the SP is the best option

 

[Obormot]

It appears that team Wacken discarded the ability of monarch AIs to do research in MA and later which was a mistake. Even if you research very fast you can get at least invention and almost always gunpowder/astronomy in the MA. And i guess that with the trick we used (launching their GAs at different time) it is possible to get even more. So they were actually researching much faster then us in the MA.

 

[Northern Pike]

Klarius, thanks for suffering through that clickfest and doing the spoiler. It's good to know, I guess , that our task was really as futile as it seemed.

 

[killercane]

Ditto. Thanks for doing the dirty work Klarius. I will truly be surprised if anyone figures out a trick or somethign that we havent thought of to get them to launch.

 

[ThERat]

It's surprising that the AI doesn't build a single part. Maybe not at this difficulty level, since I have had enough games where trying to destroy the SS was very critical to success.

By the way can anyone enlighten me, Apollo does need aluminum, doesn't it?

 

[Gyathaar]

I found it surpricing too.. I actually think Spain started building space ships parts while you were at war with them too..

Edit: Checked.. and they were only building Apollo

 

[klarius]

Well, I performed another experiment.
Starting from 1800AD with Spain gone, I made peace with Gandhi and nicely traded with him.
India then goes democracy and builds temples and cathedrals (and still a lot military).
About 100 turns later Gandhi sneak attacks w/o having started a spaceship part in the meantime.
Maybe it's Gandhi .

 

[killercane]

Since we had the SS almost built perhaps he thought he needed to attack to destroy it? Though I still prefer Civ 3 over 4, they are hell bent on building the ship in 4 IME.

 

[Obormot]

I think he just wanted to build a big army&fleet, and also temples, libs, cathedrals, colosseums, universities and all other stuff in each city before building SS parts. Usually they start the SS before 2050 because they start building stuff right from 4000BC, but in this game Gandhi got his cities quite late and didn't have the time for it. (At least this is the only explanation i have, i don't think that the AI is clever enough to invest more into military to destroy the spaceship that another civ is building)

 

[Ronald]

Just to let you know:

Team Wacken is in 1750 AD and Apollo is not built yet.

 

[ThERat]

I saw that too, I think what saved us was the fact that we forced Gandhi to change his wonder build, I guess else they can wait very long

 

[klarius]

Well, Jeffelammar is now also beyond our Apollo date.
So, congratulations team, we managed the laurels

 

[Northern Pike]

Great! Now we can go through our earlier posts and edit out everything we said about how victory and defeat wouldn't mean much in this one.

Though I can't claim to have read every post in every other thread, I do have the impression that we thought through the special problems and features of this scenario more carefully than the other teams, who basically treated it as a tech race. So in that sense we deserved to win, and congratulations to all.