SGOTM 9 - Wacken

How busy can you boys be, not even a reply in short of two days?

Well. if that's the standard, why the heck am I spamming here for?

I thought we had an important decision to make, and it went like blah-blah and maybe blah.

So I played.
 
No offense Goz...
We usually like to spam as much as you do.
Those of us in US were very busy traveling and chewing turkeys.
It will get better, just hard to breath, too much food to digest at the moment. :)

Who's up anyway? Wotan????
 
Gozpel, I really was busy. I struggled a lot to play my turns in the other games. Besides, all your poits looked OK.

Dman: I guess you refer to "thanksgiving", a curious celebration.

Why can't we get some quick settlers out of our capital and Copenhagen, rather than build aqueducts right away?
 
Hi guys, back home now. Sorry about the silence but the past week have been just too much. Will fire up civ and have a look at the save later today. I think Wacken is up followed by Xevious and then it is my turn again.
 
:sleep:.................
 
Offa said:
Why can't we get some quick settlers out of our capital and Copenhagen, rather than build aqueducts right away?

gozpel said:
But we have a slight problem here, we are already paying 34gpt for unit upkeep and it will be more expensive for every turn.

To combat this deficiency we simply need more towns.

WackenOpenAir said:
What i mean is that nothing should stop us from making horsemen. Horsemen sure cost upkeep, but they will pay back themselves. So we need to build those without delay. Holding back on horsemen production for economic reasons is harmfull for game progress. It is better to invest by paying unit upkeep for them now so that we will soon have dozens of cities conquered from the AI.

And i rather build those than settlers. Settling on the unproductive mountain tiles will screw up the production for our other cities. Settling those tiles and screwing up production means reduced horsemen production.

That's it in a nutshell and I followed it since Wacken make more sense than I do. If he's right though, is a different question... :lol:

But it's a good plan.
 
I had a look at the save and it looks good AFAIK. What we need to address now is the question of where to strike and when. I would not mind us going in with HMs but that would be more difficult vs. the Carthagians since they have good defensive units so maybe going after the Mongols first is the best option and wait for us to have Knights before taking out Carthagians.

But after Libs have finished lets build HMs "en masse" and go berzerk with them. :)
 
So I'm sitting here thinking about this game today, and something occurs to me. We plan to build up a nice area and "gift" it to India, while at the same time wiping out most of the rest of the world. What would happen if we just controlled a couple AI civs and made alliances with them against India, in the hopes that they will give away a lot of techs when they make peace with India?
 
Well, i played my turns, but i cannot copy paste into this forum anymore lately. I don't know what's wrong.

So i added a text document.
 

Attachments

To make it easier, I'll post Wacken's turnset.

WackenOpenAir said:
I turn on the grid an check out those 3 hills. I count tiles and, no we cannot settle there IMO.

I check the military advisor: 10 warriors. I will disband a few regular warriors.
I visit the military advisor, we have an average military compare to the mongols.
Too bad we didn't get some military a little faster :)

I check city builds.
Worker in Odense changed to barracks.
I leave the rest of my decisions to the IBT when i have construction.

Turn1:
Construction done, i change research to currency.
About 16 turns with a balanced cashflow, 13 turns when spending our gold on deficit with the current situation.
Since it is a decision that is easilly reversable if i later decide to do different (by running a deficit), i turn research to 0.

Bergen, Trontheim, Birka and Reykjavik are changed to aquaduct.
Disband warrior in Reykjavik.
Disband warrior in Bodo.
Start moving 3 veteran warriors towards city with barracks. I will upgrade them.

Turn2:
nothing.

Turn4:
Reykjavik: Aquaduct -> Barracks.

Turn5:
Aarhus: Horse -> Aquaduct.
I sell math to Spain for 52 gold and to america for 25 gold.
I turn on research again since else we will have too much money. 13 turns with balanced cashflow.

Turn7:
Stavanger: Horse -> horse.
Alesund: Worker -> Wealth for a while since this city will not be worth any city improvements and at this moment we do not want to pay upkeep for more workers.
Bodo: Horse -> Horse. (Subject to change depending on the corruption level after FP. At the moment this city's corruption makes investment in growth less valuable)
Sell math for 29g to the celts.

Turn8:
Trontheim: Aquaduct -> Horse.
Reykjavik: Aquaduct -> Horse.
Karasjok: Worker -> Settler.
Our money deficit is rising. But soon, we will be conquering cities.

Turn9:
Stockholm: Horse -> Horse.

Turn10:
Copenhagen: Aquaduct -> Horse.




At this point, we have a sufficient army to invade the Mongols.
We have Copenhagen, Stockholm, Bodo, Stavanger and soon Odense not having anything better to produce than horses. This adds up for a total of about 2 horses per 3 turns.
Therefore, i think we can swich Trontheim and Reykjavik to Libraries. But since i am the evil warmongerer and you guys like to build Libraries, i will leave that pleasure to the next player :)
Birka and Bergen must IMO get a Lib after the aquaduct as well. (See i'm not that evil a warmongerer)
We can also start producing Settlers again to fill the space we are about to conquer. I suggest to build some in our most food rich cities when they reach sizes where happiness becomes a problem. (Like Oslo) We can thus keep those above size 6 for military support reasons. The completely corrupt cities Karasjok and Alesund can also build settlers

Before starting the war, we should consider gifting the Mongols republic. If you gift them republic on your turn 0, i assume they will revolt right away. This will prevent them from pop rushing (which wastes our future population and happiness)

If you look at the economic picture, you will see that unit cost is indeed killing us. This can however be solved soon as we are gonna conquer cities, ICS that ground and have multiple cities about to grow past 6.
 
WackenOpenAir said:
Why would they gift India those techs ?

Well, it might take some doing, like maybe we could Capture an Indian city and gift it to one of the AI's that we have an MA with, allowing India to pick it off. I don't know how AI peace deals work so not sure this would work or not.
 
The save.


550BC(0) Switch Reyk to library, will start one in Trondheim after horse. MM a few cities that are about to grow or produce something. Bump science to 50%, Currency in 3 at -26gpt, 75 in treasury, but FP will finish next turn. Alesund to settler.

530BC(1) Trondheim:Horse->Library. Bergen:Aqueduct->Library. Oslo: FP->Settler. Move warriors off hills to uncover more fog. Don't want a barb camp to pop up down there before we enter MA in 2 turns. Moving troops north, I'd like to attack both Tabriz AND Almarikh while Mongols are in Anarchy.

510BC(2) Sci->30%, Currency in 1. More MM.

490BC(3) Currency, enter MA. Trade Construction and Currency to Otto for 10g. They get Monotheism. They will not trade it for Republic and Literature, and I will devalue Republic more when I gift it to Mongols. Will probably just have to attack them after Mongols and get it in a peace deal. No trade for now, start Feudalism@40%. Copenhagen:Horse->Horse. Odense:Barracks->Horse. Spanish start Lighthouse. Mongol war starts next turn.

470BC(4) Oslo:Settler->Library. Bodo:Horse->Horse. Gift Republic to Mongols and now they are revolting (even more so than before!) Declare on them. Move sword and 3 horses on mountain, sword and horse onto hill and horse onto jungle by Tabriz.

450BC(5) Stockholm:Horse->Horse. Curragh sinks on way to new land. Take Tabriz with one sword, get 2 slaves who start roading home. Take Almarikh, losing 2 horses, capturing 2 workers, start roading home also, 2 resistors. Sci->50% -12gpt, Feudalism in 8. Carthage is a Republic.

430BC(6) Copenhagen:Horse->Horse. 4 units to Almarikh to heal and calm resistors.

410BC(7) Birka:Aqueduct->Library. Resistance ends in Almarikh, can't make a happy citizen, so all 3 are scientists. Mongols are Republic now so they can't pop rush. Advance on capital. Mongol Archer coming from Ta-tu.

390BC(8) Mongols want peace, I think not. Trondheim:Library->Settler. Stavanger:Horse->Horse. Take out archer with sword. Otto is in anarchy.

370BC(9) Archer kills horse. Celts build lighthouse. Karasjok has 2 out of 3 shields. Building a granary will allow a decent settler factory. 3 forest chops will get it done pretty quick.

350BC(10) Forget to drop sci, lose a worker. Sci->40%. Bergen:Library->Harbor. Copenhagen:Horse->Horse. Reyk:Library->Horse. Stockholm:Horse->Horse. Hmmm... Otto builds Great Wall. :( America builds Hanging Gardens. Sword and 3 horses next to Karakorum.
 
Wacken? Why did you slow down FP a turn? Growth in that town is important, I know that, but FP is more important...at least in my book.

Otherwise, good stuff. We are making a dent in the northern coalition. I noticed somewhere before that Carthage doesn't have horses or iron, they will be a pushover if it stays that way. Well, after Mongols that is.

Would Ottos give away Mono for Monarchy and Lit? The overseas nations knows Monarchy and are missing a whole bunch of techs. But it could be wise to keep them backwards after all.

It's time to prepare for Ottos holiday villa on the island E of us, one city will do, so we can gift it to them before we take them out. So we need a galley and a settler with escort, if the island is empty we can take the escort back.

Ottomans and the Great Wall is just a minor obstacle, it never stopped me, I only lost a few more units than expected.

We need some settlers ready soon to build up our new empire so we can make that palace-jump (shudder) :eek: sooner than later. Or should we just concentrate on the war(s) for now?
 
OK, I've got it! Will await a discussion before playing. It looks good from the report but I have not looked at the save yet.
 
Reykjavik is empty? I put a MP there and I also thought the library would be built way before 370BC? That's incense in that town, we can't afford to lose it by a flip.

Can anyone with a flip-calculator check this out?

Edit:Originally Posted by WackenOpenAir
Bergen, Trontheim, Birka and Reykjavik are changed to aquaduct. :wow:

Wotan: More horses and more conquered towns, that's all :) And yeah, try to keep up the science too, the AI won't help us much in this game.
 
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