SGOTM7 - Team Chunky

[Baalzebul]

Good work Khan.

I agree with MA. Let's rush it.

The AI have replacable parts and building TOE so I think about 40 turns later we will see armors landing and now we can see infantry landings if they have rubber. So we will need many cannons.

 

[Mach]

Ok I have it. Rush MA and start our GA, I'll do the best I can to mm our cities. Every shield and gold counts.

They have rep parts now? Damn. Dare I hope the Persians don't have rubber? So yes we'll need many cannons...and many galleys, and many sipahi, and many muskets. I guess my job is to start of the Persian Invasion building, my only question is: where will be our jump-off point? I vote Bolu; we can land near Arbela or Bactra in 1 turn from there. If we decide to land 2e of Bolu, we could do the double-landing maneuver we did at Karachi, where every galley lands 4 troops. But that spot isn't right next to a city... So I'll start massing galleys there, if there aren't any objections. How many do you guys think we'll need?

If we move Bolu 1 spot ne, we'll be able to do the double-landing thing next to Bactra, but the flip chances of the moved Bolu would be high. Just a thought.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Bolu's flip chances are allready high. So don't worry, it cant get much worse. Just watch out, keep the troops out of the city. The problem will be to bring the galleys there alive. There are a lot of Frigates in the sector, at least 3 persian and an american. We must rebuild the roads and send some cannons there to take care of the frigates or at least send them away in harbours for a turn or 2. They're really harassing.

 

[Mach]

Well, we still seem to mostly own the inner straits, which'll help. Outside that, I'll try to hop all available galleys from city to city to Bolu. I didn't look closely to see if this is possible, but it should be.

We could probably move Bolu the turn before attacking, to minimize flip chances and still be able to land the maximum number of units. I'll just get units there and we'll figure that out later.

Since the Persians have rails, I've pretty much ruled out a southern musket landing -- since they can move anywhere within 1 turn, a diversion is pointless. I figure we'll just land everyone in one big stack at the foothold point. Do you guys agree with this?

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

That's the only choice we have. Otherways we'll watch the americans launching... Even if I would have loved to have rifles for Persia, I don't see how we can get them even if Nationalism is our free tech... and a mobilisation would be nice too... sorry, dreaming again...
Mach, the galleys only have 2 turns on coastal waters, they can not make it to Bolu safely. We must stand a risk... I think that if we stack them we can make it with only a few lost...

 

[Mach]

Um, yeah you're right. Hadn't thought it through. Three MP's to exit a city, then to the sea, then three more to go from sea to coast...we can't make it back into another city on that turn. D'oh! Well then you're right, I'll just have to find the shortest route, stack 'em, and pray.

Lets try to build new galleys in cities with harbors, so they're vet. Every little bit helps.

If we move Bolu, we really won't need too many galleys there -- 10 can move 40 troops. We currently have, what, 23-24 right now? If we leave 4 in each strait block (a total of 12), plus one Zululand ferry, then we already have enough for the landing, if we can just collect 'em and move 'em.

 

[chunkymonkey]

Hmm, yeah, hadn't really thought about Persian rails. Ok, well that means that this offensive is more important than ever.

A musket army or two would be nice to have, to absorb some of the initial cavalry shocks, but i'm not sure we would be able to build them from the Academy in time to be useful, let alone have the time to construct them on Perian beaches. Massed troops in one spot then, assuming we can land somewhere. Hopefully the Persians aren't stocked with units like the Indians were...

I guess it's all or nothing time... I sense this could be a game where whoever builds the UN (60-70 turns?) may call it, since we are despised, and the eligible contender. We need to try to win before this happens. Or at least be prepared to launch an offensive at the UN building city, and raze it turn after completion. Would this work or does the vote get called on the interturn? Even this would only buy us another 40-50 turns before somebody launches.

I forsee a nail-biting ending to this game.

 

[Mach]

Preflight (1110AD)
Move wounded army into our territory for faster healing.
Rush the mil acad.
Start galleys moving.
Change all taxmen to scientists; sorry Khan, I don't like taxmen, since we get more out of scientists...
Do a bit of MM.
(I) Not much, a bit of bombing is all.
Mil Acad finishes, start army.

T1 (1120AD)
Not much. Plug the hole in the Zulu blockade, galleys are shifting. We'll only have 6 to move to Bolu from the eastern blockade, so plus the one already there, we'll need to build more. The ones in the north are to far away (and anyway that's a 2-tile block), and it's too dangerous to move the two in the south. Maybe Konya and Iznik will be able to build 2-turn ones in our GA.
(I) Mo' bombing. No landings, grr. We build our first sipahi.

T2 (1130AD)
Bombing reveals 4 pikes in Delhi; raze it, lose one knight. Yay! Hey, where is the remnants of that pike stack? 4-1

Upgrade a sipahi, I hope we get a landing soon, I want our GA!
(I) Lose a galley to a persian frigate.
Injured musket loses to AC across a river, we lose 3 slaves. 4-3
Still no landings!

T3 (1140AD)
Found Van and Edrine and Antalya.
Bomb the AD, MDI kills it. 5-3
(I) Lose another galley to a frigate. 5-4
Still no landings.
I see an infantry in Persia. Damn.

T4 (1150AD)
Armies kill 4 pikes in Bombay, and raze it. 9-4

(I) Another galley killed by a frigate 9-5
Still no landings!!!

T5 (1160AD)
Armies rest.

Ok, that's it for me. I just moved a single sipahi over to India so we can trigger our damn GA, which I wasn't able to do because there have been no landings!! Our regular trap is open, but they avoided it. The Persians are trying to probe north but they have nowhere to land, and the Americans and Vikings headed to Sivas until I blocked that, then they just went home.

It's pretty frustrating to get bombed so much, yet have no one to kill. I lost too many galleys, although I don't know what I could have done about it. There are 8 or 9 galleys piled up at the eastern blockade; I figure we could wait until we've gotten a whole bunch over there, then move them all as a pack down to Bolu. They'll be in the open for a few turns...

At least I halved the Indians... Our armies up there are resting, but it shouldn't be long before they are ended.

Good luck Baal, I guess you're going next.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

OK with me for the scientists, they are more efficient but I wanted MOOOOONEYYYY for the upgrades. But it's fine to use them instead of taxmen.
We could have kept Zeus, it brings a lot of tourism I think. Baal, I'm sure that you can finish India so the flip wouldn't be dangerous.
I've massacred the pike stack, that's why it's so easy... They won't have more than 3 pikes in the remaining cities. Enough for an army with the MA.
Have fun, I hope not to have to see indian colours when I retake the game.

 

[Mach]

We have enough cash to upgrade a knight every 2 turns, and I was hoping that would become every turn once we hit the GA, even with the scientists set. I just couldn't help myself there, going from taxmen to scientist increased our specialist output by 50%. Since we had no immediate need for sipahi, I thought we could take our time with the upgrades, and be better off in the long run.

Meanwhile, I'm pretty uncomfortable with the game now. Lost 3 galleys on my turns, and only built 2. I'll feel a lot better once we have 10 galleys in Bolu. (Enemy frigates can't sink galleys in the city, they can only redline them...)

For the persian invasion, I'm thinking 14 muskets, an army, a settler, 5-6 cannon, and the rest sipahi, hopefully that'll be like 20 depending on how many galleys we have. We'll also need a settler for moving Bolu. (If we don't move Bolu, then we can't land the force next to a city, so replace the cannon with more sipahi...)

I think later I'll post some pictures of this plan for clarity. Building the force will be easy, especially in our GA -- by the time the army build in Istanbul is done, we should have plenty of sipahi and muskets. The hard part will be to get those galleys down to Bolu, I think we'll need a stack of 15 to move down the coast; IIRC, they'll spend 2 turns out in the open, coming within range of the Persian frigates bombing the Bolu Peninsula, so I'd expect 1/3 casualties...

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Sipahi loss will be huge against Infantry, I prefer a lot more than 6 cannons. They will pay back. Dont forget, bomb whenever you can the frigates, this gives us a free turn. And if we manage to redline them, don't hesitate to attack.
Is Baal up?

 

[Mach]

Ok, more cannon if you'd like. I figured the army would be for the infantries, a 4-sipahi military academy-boosted army should do wonders.

Yep, Baal is up.

 

[Baalzebul]

Sorry but it seems that I won't be able to play till sunday night so you can skip me if you want.

 

[chunkymonkey]

I'll take it, i've got a couple of hours to kill. Managed to scrape a win in COTM13 yesterday. First Deity win for me - hopefully not the last .

 

[chunkymonkey]

OK. I've played four turns to get us back to round numbers (me=superstitious) Here's how it goes, our plan has been scuppered somewhat.

0 - 1160AD - Everything's OK, I stop Karabuk from rioting.
IBT - Uhoh, the Persian frigates are heading for our galley stack, and one dies.

1 - 1170AD - Lose two galleys killing the frigate but finally get him. Try to get others to escape. I have very unlucky with the frigate bombing. Kill two pikes in Lahore. Kill lone pike with Sipahi... Golden Age! Up sci to 10% to take advantage. 4-3
IBT - Americas want to talk peace. When will they learn. Persians kill another galley - they are helpless. Mugla cannon -> galley.

2 - 1180AD - Found "Not Constantinople". Kill pike and two longbows in Lahore. Take the city. Switch Kafa from settler -> galley. 7-4
IBT - Hmm, frigates kill the remaining galleys in that eastern stack. Urfa galley -> galley. Sivas harbor -> galley. Persians are building UniSuff.

3 - 1190AD - Kill two pikes in Madras. India is no more. 9-4.
IBT - Edirne sipahi -> sipahi. Uskudar cannon ->settler. Aydin sipahi -> sipahi.

4 - 1200AD - Settle New Edrine next to ivory. We are happy... Change Izmit to musket.

So I got screwed with the galleys a bit, but it made me think of a different plan. Instead of transporting our galleys/caravels down the dangerous Persian strait to the Bolu peninsula - why not plant a temporary city 2 S of Konya, next to those spices inside Persian border. This will allow us a drop off point on the northern tip of Persia. As good a place as any I figure, since everywhere is railed.

What we could really do with now are frigates for a bit of revenge bombardment. Astronomy is in 3 turns and we are still pumping out +100gpt. We can probably have Magnetism in 13-14 if we kill the gold a bit. That takes us to the end of our Golden Age. I'm unsure what to do really. I just know that if we plonk down our entire army in Persia and it gets wiped out next turn, we are as good as finished. We've got a few more knights to upgrade, and a stack of cats on their way back from India which could be upgraded at 30g a piece... I will think about it some more over the weekend.

At least India is dead, and we are in our Golden Age. We all get to play with a few turns of Ottoman Golden Age, which is good.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Nicey turns Chunky.
Actually the situation is tough. You're right, if we do a landing in Persia and it gets whipped we're not going to be able to retry it until persia has MA. And America goes in the Space.
So lets not precipitate things. I would even consider waiting for our free tech and praying it to be Nationalism. In any case, our landing must be big and well protected - the sipahi aren't really needed on the first turn, I'd say we need about 30-40 units including at least 20 defenders and some bombers.

 

[Mach]

Sounds good chunky. "India is no more."

Somebody check my math on this... A move out from a city to the sea, drop off troops, then move back into the city costs a total of 4mp. So caravels (at 9mp) and galleons (at 12mp) will both be able to make 3 drops in 1 turn. So 1 caravel can drop 9 troops in 1 turn, and 1 galleon can drop 12.

So 4 caravels (160s) can drop 36 troops, or 3 galleons (180s) can drop the same. Caravels are a bit more economic. So I vote, once we have astro, start rushing caravels in Bolu; 5 should be more than plenty. Then we can build your new city, move the boats over there, and start the landing.

A two-wave landing sounds fine with me, 20 or so defenders and some arty on turn 1, then a lot of offensive troops on turn 2. I think maybe we can expect the Persians to be pretty much maxed out on unit support, just like the Indians were. So we can expect about the same number of attacks, cavs and a few immortals. How many attacks did we see in India? Enough to kill our stack of 10 pikes, with even more left over...that would be, what, 25-30? The persians have some boats, which helps use up their unit support, plus we've been killing their mostly offensive landings, so maybe they have more defensive troops now than offensive. Anyway, we try to have about that many defenders...

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

The persians are a lot tougher to crack than India. If we face on the same way a SoD of 30 infantries, they won't hesitate to attack as the pikes did...

 

[Mach]

Oh yeah, attacking infantries. D'oh! Well, in my experience, ai's aren't so good at upgrading units, so maybe they'll have only a few infantries, and stacks of pikes or something... Do you guys really think we can wait until rifles to attack? I'm not sure we have that long, and even if we do they might have tanks...

Reminder: I'll be out of contact from the 2nd to the 8th (sittin' on a rock readin' a book).

 

[Baalzebul]

About 20 units killed our 10 pikeman at turn 1. At turn 2&3 at least 40 units attacked us. So if they have rails expect that at least 40 units will attack us on turn 1 and probably they will be better and effective then jumbos, AC and MI against our musketman.