SGOTM8 - klarius

[klarius]

OK I played. And I even made an irregular 21 turnset to get our first contact.

Save is on the results page. Edit: taken out link.

Turn log:

Okay opened the save. Nothing new to see in the fog.
Surprise: f10 doesn't show the other civs. That means probably spaceship victory is disabled.
And CRpMapstat also doesn't show anything in the civ info tab.
Okay let's start.
Turn 0 4000BC:
Move the scout two south. There are 2BGs available if settling south only one guaranteed if settling se.
I go for the guaranteed 4-turn factory, forfeiting coastal capital. Settler south, worker se.

Turn 1 3950BC:
Settle Washington -> warrior, worker irrigates, set science to CB at 0 because there is a GH to pop
scout sw s pops GH for WC, there is another GH available in 2 turns so I keep science at zero till then.

Turn 2 3900BC:
scout w nw

Turn 3 3850BC:
Scout nw pops BW, washington works plains, which will be irrigated next turn, science to alpha @ 100%.
We already see another island over a narrow straight.

Turn 4 3800BC:
worker roads, scout 2n

Turn 5 3750BC:
scout 2n, looks like there is still another island visible.

Turn 6 3700BC:
worker ne on lamb so it is already prepared at expansion, scout e n

Turn 7 3650BC:
worker irrigates, washington warrior->granary, warrior goes a little scouting east but will sonn return,
scout ne n

Turn 8 3600BC:
warrior still scouting, scout nw pops GH for CB (well should have stayed on CB and 0 research to get something better)

IBT: There is a barb warrior appearing from the se, that's crazy early and can get ugly.

Turn 9 3550BC:
scout n, warrior on the way home

turn 10 3500BC:
scout e, warrior still on the way home, but will not make it in time , worker roads

IBT: barb carries away all our 20gp

turn 11 3450BC:
warrior is home and fortifies, culture expansion, scout e pops GH for 25g

Turn 12 3400BC:
scout n, worker on first floodplain

Turn 13 3350BC:
scout n, worker irrigates

Turn 14 3300BC:
scout 2n

Turn 15 3250BC:
scout w n

Turn 16 3200BC:
scout w n. worker roads

Turn 17 3150BC:
scout n

Turn 18 3100BC:
scout e,growth to size 3 and the governor doesn't do what I want, so have to change sequence slightly, lux to 20%,
worker on southern forest.

Turn 19 3050BC:
worker chops, scout 2 n

Turn 20 3000BC:
scout n sees green border (on our island)

I decide to continue one turn to get contact so we can discuss this right away
IBT:

Turn 21 2950BC:
scout n, control-D gets us Greece

Greece will sell us alphabet for either CB+22g or CB+1gpt+4g.
I generally prefer the gpt variant this early, so they have more incentive to stay peaceful.
But in any case we should do the trade and research writing full steam after that with negative gpt.
When money runs out I would take a loan 1gpt for 16g to keep research high.
Greece has masonry, pottery and WC already. I think they have another contact. So we should look to find these people also.
Chop will finish next turn, granary in 2 turns.
You can micromanage away from the BG to the irrigated floodplain next turn to get another 2gp.
If you then micromanage from FP to forest and back to floodplain after the granary completes, you will get 10sh in the following 2 turns for either a worker to get our factory up to speed or a warrior if you're nervous.
Generally we should have +4 (+5 later) food on the growth turn. This ensures that the governor selects a forest on growth for another 2sh.
For the 4-turn factory to run we need both BGs mined and another FP irrigated. And don't forget that one forest has to stay.
We will then have 6-8-7-10 shields from starting from size 5.

From the look of what has been explored, I think we will get quite a few contacts soon. So trading/brokering should go smoothly.
Currently I still think republic slingsshot could be possible, but we will see how the others do in science.

I'm away for the weekend within a few hours, but will probably check the discussion tomorrow at some time, if I get hold of a computer.

 

[Megalou]

Well played, klarius. Not hopeless at all.

 

[Megalou]

Greece will sell us alphabet for either CB+22g or CB+1gpt+4g. I generally prefer the gpt variant this early, so they have more incentive to stay peaceful.

Greece is very far away although they could theoretically send a small SOD, especially if we leave barb camps in our area for them to chase after. If we buy with cash there is a bigger chance we will get our money back. The AI have a hard time spending their money in despotism. Just some more reflections.

 

[Evil_Kanevil]

Well played. Glad we haven't caught any disease so far, and with ' help maybe we can stay healthy ... My gut feeling says that worker after the granary is the best move, as our position feels quite safe.

Looks like the expansion northwards will be a bit time-consuming, maybe we should try to get a worker/warrior factory going up north by the FP/forests?

 

[AlanH]

No SGOTM would be complete without at least one screw-up This one's down to me.

The Bug

Those who played SGOTM7 may recall that the C3C Differential Naval Movement implementation was faulty. Ships still had the strange C3C default of ignoring movement cost on Sea tiles, so they treated sea as ocean, and were able to surf around the offshore waters at speed. Well, guess who forgot to get this fixed before SGOTM8

The Impact

"Why would Hydrophobic Americans with no boats care?", I hear someone ask. Well the AI will probably have a point of view about your plans for world conquest, and their fast-moving ships could be a source of later-game problems for you.

The Cure

I therefore propose to edit the C3C team saves to correct this potential problem and restore the Sea movement cost to 2 instead of 1. To do this I need you to pause your play after you upload your next file, and PM to let me know it is available for editing. I'll endeavour to fix it, and let you know, within 24 hours so that you can continue your game. If your current save on the server has not been downloaded and played then let me know and I can, of course, fix it immediately.

I apologise for this oversight and any resulting inconvenience.

 

[Megalou]

Dear Alan,
With Klarius away I'll make an effort to speak for the team. If you think we should avoid any disadvantage, please go ahead and change the save. The important thing is winning and participation can be flushed way down the toilet, right?

 

[klarius]

Well, I found a computer

I PMed AlanH that he can change the save currently uploaded.
So Ciceronian shouldn't download and play before we hear back from him.

BTW: Since nobody complained just let's stick with the roster as proposed by Ronald:

klarius just played
Ciceronian up and going to play after AlanH did his thing
Megalou on deck eagerly waiting to stomp
Evil_Kanevil
Ronald
Northern Pike (currently unavailable)

 

[AlanH]

If you think we should avoid any disadvantage, please go ahead and change the save. The important thing is winning and participation can be flushed way down the toilet, right?

I wasn't offering an option *not* to change it I have no idea if the bug was a game breaker, but it was likely to make things harder. And of course we want all C3C teams playing the same game.

I've fixed your save, guys. You're good to go. Download the 2950 BC save from the server and play your little socks off

 

[Ciceronian]

Hello teammates!

I'm back from my vacation and will probably play my turn later today. But first I'd like to a hold a brief discussion on further gameplay:

1.

Surprise: f10 doesn't show the other civs. That means probably spaceship victory is disabled.

According to the rules, spaceship and diplomacy and disabled. But we ourselves may only win by conquest, whilst the AI could win by conquest, domination or culture. Since we'll prevent conquest and domination by the AI in any case anyway, they could only stop us by a cultural, which I've never seen an AI manage under normal conditions. So our goal is to complete the game by conquest as quickly as possible, since the gold medal goes to the team with the fastest finish, not the highest score. Since we will probably only manage a conquest victory once we have Advanced Flight, the quicker the tech pace, the earlier our victory.

2. Scout - head north or east next?

3. Where should we place the next city? How about 3 tiles west and 1 south of the capital? Could pop the goody hut with a cultural expansion.

4. Worker - finish chopping, then irrigate, road, on to BG, mine and road.

5. Build order in capital - finish granary, then worker, warrior, settler?

6. Accept 4g + 1gpt deal with Greece, then research Writing quickly.

Sound good?

 

[klarius]

1.) If you're thinking of winning the competition or even only to have a good result, you don't need to ponder about the AI winning. I expect that the winning team will finish before 1000AD (but I'm known to have misjudged the difficulty of variants in previous SGOTMs ), that's long before the AI could get any victory condition.

2.) Throw a coin . But directly north is Athens judging from the form of the culture border.

3.) The next cities should add something to our empire immediately. The location you suggest may be settled later, but needs some worker attention. Currently I would like cities to work the river tiles we have available. My favorite location is 3 north for the next town.

4.) we don't need this tile irrigated currently, the capital will not use it. Highest priority are the tiles we need for the capital, that's both BGs mined and another FP irrigated (and sure these tiles should be roaded).

5.) That's a possibility, though I would probably do worker-settler to relieve our commerce situation quickly.

6.) That's what I suggest. Note we will run out of money soon, if we go full steam to writing. My style is then to take always new loans from the AI until we have something to sell.

 

[Ciceronian]

1. OK, I was just theorizing. The essential point though is that tech pace will be even more crucial than usual, because winning is only really possible with Advanced Flight.

4. Then I'm wondering why you chopped it. Just for the shields going to the city?

5. Good idea.

 

[klarius]

4. Then I'm wondering why you chopped it. Just for the shields going to the city?

Sure, I wanted the granary up ASAP.

 

[Ciceronian]

I played continued the game by playing only 9 turns, being rather timid and cautious. Here's the turnlog:

2950 BC - Trade Ceremonial Burial + 4g + 1gpt for Alphabet. Research Writing, which will however take 50 turns.
2900 BC - The largest nations of the world pop-up ranks us last, behind the Romans, Greeks, Vikings, English, Japanese and Chinese. Worker finishs chop, moves SE. Scout N, spots Athens, then moves E.
2850 BC - Washington completes Granary. Start work on worker. Worker mines, Scout E.
2800 BC - Scout 2E, finds the Chinese. They have the Wheel, we have CB, but they won't trade.
2750 BC - Scout 2E.
2710 BC - Washington completes Worker, starts work on settler. New worker 2NW. Scout W, NW.
2670 BC - Scout 2N. Worker A finishes mine, starts road. Worker B irrigates.
2630 BC - Scout NW, W.
2590 BC - Worker A finishes road, then W. Scout W, NW.
2550 BC - Worker B finishes irrigating, builds road. Worker A goes W, but Alas! discovers a barb camp with two warriors on the mountain to the west. Scout NW, N.

Hence I leave this situation for Megalou to deal with: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/klarius_SG008_BC2550_01.SAV

 

[klarius]

Well, I didn't think we should omit all connecting roads just leave out the unnecessary irrigation, but it's ok how it is now.
Maybe I should post my thoughts clearer

It gets a bit tricky now with the barbs. I think our warrior needs to go out to cover the worker on the BG.
Also one MM action is necessary. We have to work the irrigated plains instead of the lake. This will give 7 sh on growth. Then we can complete the settler the next turn with MM for 5 food, 5sh. Then a 3-turn warrior @ 5 food and the 4-turn settler factory should be ready to go (if the worker can mine the BG right away).
We still need a lot lux slider, so our science stinks.
Well, we'll see how it looks when we have a few cities down.

 

[Megalou]

Good job Ciceronian. As for the barbs. I think I'll protect the northwestern worker and retreat the southwestern one. It looks like the northwestern one has started to dig and he is also closer to Washington. Not sure how we stand in shields, but another warrior would cost 1 gpt upkeep for quite a while (5th unit.)

The location of the second town is a a small problem. I agree that it should make use of the river but if there are more barbs north disaster might strike. If our warrior survives the present situation I will bring him NW with our settler. Looking at the barbs, I favour a tight build although not ICS.

Good decision to go max on Writing, despite the high cost. Also good decision about the granary.

I won't play tonight so feel free to post your thoughts.

 

[Megalou]

Warrior moves:
1. NW,NW.
2. If barb advances: fortify.
3. If barb advances to hill: back to capital and fortify. Worker escapes south. If barb advances to FP - not sure - probably attack?

I will try to make the two workers work together until we have solved the barb situation. They can then make road in 1 turn and escape easier.

 

[Megalou]

klarius, I didn't see your post. I think if the warrior goes W first the barbs may hesitate and we can protect both briefly.

 

[Megalou]

Darn, that's a CHINESE warrior N, isn't it!? Forget it.

 

[klarius]

Ahem, Megalou, NW that's no barb but a helpful friendly chinese warrior . So I wanted to cover the SW worker so he can mine the BG. The additional shield is needed for 4-turn settlers. I think with the chinese around one can risk to move the settler ( to complete in 2 turns) in this direction. Then we soon have 2 cities and by that 8 units allowance.

Edit: Nice cross posting chaos

 

[Megalou]

Yes, I shall return the warrior to DC for military police as soon as the worker is safe. If the RNG gods are with us.